Brakes for track day

[ChromeDome]

Hey guys, I am looking for any opinions. I have a 2012 GT Mustang with 2013 GT500 brake calipers front and rear. Long story short keep melting the axle seals so got the larger rear rotors to move the heat away and that worked. I have been battling the brakes with this vehicle for a few years really run a tight budget but not much has been working. This past weekend I ran at the M1 concourse (1.5MI track) using DTC60 up front and DTC30 in the rear. Felt really good on the street but by the 2nd session the rear rotors already peaked over 1400F and the front are operating around 600-800F. With that said I painted the backing plates with temperature paint and its was still under 800F at the rear pads. There are 2-3 inch ducts for air cooling for the front and nothing for rear. I guessing maybe I once again selected the wrong brake pad for the application? I consider myself sort of an immediate driver but its hard to improve with inconsistent brakes. I assume I am still melting the brake pad. I run with stability and traction control all off. Hawk really doesnt offer much in the needed pad sizes for my calipers so is there another company offers more and any thought what compounds would be ideal? Since tires play a role in some of this I have a 19x9.5 wheel with Dunlop Z2 star specs 2 275/35-19 mounted in four corners. This will be replaced by a 265/40-19 tire once I find something that is more track ready as these Dunlops have great wear but no real grip too easy to over power them(probably more of a size issue then power as engine is stock). I only do about 3 track days a year due to amount it takes to setup the vehicle. But its good fun most of the time. Anyway you thoughts are greatly appreciated as this has been one expensive guessing game.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Welcome to the site. Always great to see new people drop in and join the conversation(s).

Rear brakes on the 197 can be a problem on track. You can shut off the nannies....until they switch back on. Ford built the system that way to protect the average driver. Unfortunately, on track the nannies will switch back on and fry your rear brakes. The only cure I am aware of is to switch out the stock ABS module for the Boss302R/S module. This will shut off the nannies. Unfortunately, there is no way to "Toggle" between the two.

I have friends who have used Hawk pads. Most talk badly about them. Check out the threads on brake pads and you will see folks who have good experiences with Pagid, Raybestos, GLoc, Carbotech and Performance Friction. Check out Optimum Performance and KNS brake. Both are site sponsors which means they sell quality parts and will listen to you and recommend pads that will fit you and your driving style. I started running Pagid pads when I started hitting the track. The big selling point for me was good performance in a pad I could use on the track of the street.

If you want to cool off the rear brakes, you Must shut off the nannies. The system adds rear brake to assist with stability. Go into a corner under heavy braking, as we all do, and the computer adds rear brake. It does not take too many corners before the rears are smoked, literally.

Again, welcome to the site.

 

[ChromeDome]

Ok thanks for tip, Don't suppose you know if that module is still around or is it fully obsoleted? I assume obsoleted as it an 8 year old car performance parts like modules don't usually hang around.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The current online Ford Performance catalog is still showing these items, so I would assume that they're still available. No pictures or much description, so I don't know what the difference(s) might be.

ABS MODULE WITH HYDRAULICS BOSS 302R/S

ABS MODULE WITH HYDRAULICS BOSS 302R/S|Ford Performance Parts

performanceparts.ford.com

BOSS 302R/302S ABS MODULE

BOSS 302R/302S ABS MODULE|Ford Performance Parts

performanceparts.ford.com

Norm

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Check with Optimum Performance or KNS Brakes ( site sponsors ) about some brake pad advice as they both carry different ones. I prefer the G-Locs , but others have luck with different brands, but as TMS noted, not many of us are happy with Hawks.

The one thing I would definitely toss out , even though you are asking about brakes , is don't go down in size with tires, if anything go up and the larger contact patch should also help.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The one thing I would definitely toss out , even though you are asking about brakes , is don't go down in size with tires, if anything go up and the larger contact patch should also help.

This ^^^

On the earlier (slightly lighter) S197 years, even 285/35 is a little on the small side. But that size works better with wheels that are wider than 9.5" or even 10".

265/40's on 9.5" wide wheels is a decent street setup, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a great one.

Full disclosure - I use both of those tire sizes, the 265's on 9.5" and the 285's on 11's. In 18", which doesn't matter for the purposes of this thread at this point.


Norm

 

[TMSBOSS]

https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-racing-abs-module-boss-302r-302s-race-car-2011-2014/p/M2353CA/

CJ Pony shows they still have the module.

 

[Coz]

For someone that only does 3 track days a year, I would not recommend totally shutting off the nannies - especially the stability control. Use sport mode instead which allows for less aggressive stability control.

The Ford Performance module provides ABS only.

 

[Grant 302]

Are you turning off traction control with one click/press or doing the press and hold? Just checking. I’m always surprised at how many people don’t press and hold.

I think the pad choice in the rear is one of the contributing issues. DTC-30 is advertised as a circle track pad. I’m not a fan of Hawk pads for dual purpose use and have used several of their compounds. If you do want to stick with them, then I think a DTC-70/DTC-60 f/r combo might work better.

This ^^^

On the earlier (slightly lighter) S197 years, even 285/35 is a little on the small side. But that size works better with wheels that are wider than 9.5" or even 10".

265/40's on 9.5" wide wheels is a decent street setup, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a great one.

Full disclosure - I use both of those tire sizes, the 265's on 9.5" and the 285's on 11's. In 18", which doesn't matter for the purposes of this thread at this point.


Norm

I agree with your edited post more. Nothing wrong with running 265 on 9.5” rims as the OP is planning.

 

[Grant 302]

For someone that only does 3 track days a year, I would not recommend totally shutting off the nannies - especially the stability control. Use sport mode instead which allows for less aggressive stability control.

The Ford Performance module provides ABS only.

If the driver’s car control skills are decent, I think turning it off is safer.

I use sport on the street, but it still interferes too much on track for my comfort. Especially in places where the rear suspension is unloaded like cresting a hill.

 

[Coz]

I painted the backing plates with temperature paint and its was still under 800F at the rear pads.

Did you mean over 800F?

Another thing that may help is to totally remove the rear backing plates when you track it.

 

[AdmirC]

Did you mean over 800F?

Another thing that may help is to totally remove the rear backing plates when you track it.

I was just gonna say this, remove the plates for sure as the rotor will not be able to radiate heat out with them in there.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I have a feeling that radiation is not the primary mechanism involved with rotor cooling. Conduction into the adjacent air and forced convection are probably the main players here.


Norm

 

[Bill Pemberton]

There you go, from Vancouver to Philly , time to remove those backing plates. That is what is so much fun about TMO, you asked questions and you get " International " answers!!

Way to go Coz and AdmirC

 

[AdmirC]

I have a feeling that radiation is not the primary mechanism involved with rotor cooling. Conduction into the adjacent air and forced convection are probably the main players here.


Norm

For sure it's not the primary cooling function but the air gap being so small between the plate and the rotor will effect the radiation cooling side of it. Also, it's a free mod which are the best kind.

 

[TMSBOSS]

The Boss Supplement Ford made for the Boss lists suggestions for what to do if you are tracking your car. See attachment below. Removing the backing plates and other changes can be found starting on page 37. Hope this is helpful.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/12musbs1e.pdf