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Carbotech pad swap question

159
5
Georgia
For you guys that are running Carbotech pads....

Getting ready for my first track days in the Boss next week end and working hard to get all of my mods done... over the long Memorial Day Holiday week end. This forum has been invaluable in helping with my various mods!

I am installing Carbotech XP10's on the front and found that the oem pads have a thin shim on each pad, where the Carbotech pad does not. Do I need to transfer these oem shims over to the new pads?

Any and all help would be appreciated!

Thanks!
 
713
65
Is the shim needed for new OEM pads? Or do new shims come with new pads? Also I will be using dtv 70/60 on Thursday. Are the shims needed for these pads and how do you recommend bedding them on the factory rotor. I will be will be using emery cloth to clean the rotors before installing the new pad. Any other help/suggestions would be helpful
 
Probably a rattle shim, many Brembos use them. For track use, no need. On the street, in theory they prevent squeal and off brake rattling but in my experience with other Brembos and aggressive pads they do nothing. Ferrodos were the worst, unusable on the street even with the shims because they squealed so much off brake (eg just driving around, squeal while braking is the price of entry for many good pads).
 
Jza1736 said:
Is the shim needed for new OEM pads? Or do new shims come with new pads? Also I will be using dtv 70/60 on Thursday. Are the shims needed for these pads and how do you recommend bedding them on the factory rotor. I will be will be using emery cloth to clean the rotors before installing the new pad. Any other help/suggestions would be helpful
If the pads are new, definitely bed them first IMO. I don't like to risk fresh pads or rotors going straight into a track situation, although I know others who choose to bed them in on the track. That typically means just a few laps then into the paddock to fully cool though, not a complete session at 10/10s. I think you just increase the risk that you put too much heat into them too fast. Bedding is always a good idea for maximum performance, but you'll typically end up cleaning the bed pad material off after a couple sessions anyway.
 
cloud9 said:
No you don't need to transfer them.
Now you tell me. I think we need a how to thread for brakes so we can capture stuff like this. For example how often should caliper bolts be replaced?
 
332
0
Jza1736 said:
Is the shim needed for new OEM pads? Or do new shims come with new pads? Also I will be using dtv 70/60 on Thursday. Are the shims needed for these pads and how do you recommend bedding them on the factory rotor. I will be will be using emery cloth to clean the rotors before installing the new pad. Any other help/suggestions would be helpful
My Hawk DTC-70 front pads have a tendency to squeal...very loudly. I found if I use the shims from the stock pads that cures the squeal.
 
159
5
Georgia
For example how often should caliper bolts be replaced?
[/quote]

Good question! I read in the shop manual (disc) that you are to discard and replace... I didn't, but I did go ahead and order some replacements from my Ford Dealer. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this.
 

drano38

Wayne
1,130
318
Bluemax,
Others have you covered.
If you buy direct from Carbotech, they will pre-bed them for a fee. Its what I do.
I think they put them in an oven and control the heat up/cool down.
XP8 on the rear work great for street. Those XP10 will squeal like a pig on the street.
2 solutions
- Carbotech "Bobcat" pads for street (all Carbotech pads are compatible, so can switch to track pads w/ same rotors)
- Switch rotors with pads - what I'm currently doing. I can do pads/rotors/wheels in about 1 hour. Stock pads/rotors for street.
Next weekend, I'm moving up to XP12. I was getting pad transfer onto the rotors with XP10 and RP2. Carbotech told me I was most likely over-temping the XP10.

Have fun, and let us know how everything worked.
 
ChuckP said:
Jza1736 said:
Is the shim needed for new OEM pads? Or do new shims come with new pads? Also I will be using dtv 70/60 on Thursday. Are the shims needed for these pads and how do you recommend bedding them on the factory rotor. I will be will be using emery cloth to clean the rotors before installing the new pad. Any other help/suggestions would be helpful
My Hawk DTC-70 front pads have a tendency to squeal...very loudly. I found if I use the shims from the stock pads that cures the squeal.
No kidding? I should try that. I've never used them with track pads. I wonder how it would eliminate the squeal. I assumed the squeal is coming from the friction material rubbing against the rotor ??? Since I've been leaving my track pads/rotors on the Boss for the street I'll give it a shot when I put in new pads next weekend.
 
713
65
I'll guinea pig that 1 for you Gary. I'm headed to Limerock on Thursday. I'll be swapping the pads and I'll keep the shim on with the new pads
 
175
0
The shim is often made of stainless or titanium both help insulate heat from getting in the fluid. The premium calipers use titanium rings embedded in the pistons to isolate heat from the fluid. I'd run the shims no reason not to.
 
I couldn't fit the shims in with brand new DTCs so had to skip them. It seems the last few sets were easier to slide in so I wonder if they made a change along the way reducing the amount of pad material. I'll give them a shot. My fluid has been completely clean after all my track events this year so far so it hasn't been getting cooked.
 
159
5
Georgia
cloud9 said:
I couldn't fit the shims in with brand new DTCs so had to skip them.

Just put my shims back in and getting ready to take her out to bed in. I was able to slide them in with no problems, but the LH wheel is a little stiffer than the right when I spin the tires by hand. I don't believe it is the shims, but I did notice one of the pads was a little stiffer to insert than the other three (happens to be on that same wheel). It slid in fine, just a little tighter than the others.

I am assuming that the pads are supposed to "float" on the guide pins. So I am wondering if that one pad is not "floating" correctly.

Thoughts/concerns?
 
332
0
cloud9 said:
No issue there. You just need to burn off a little pad :D
Ha! I don't think I ever tried installing the shims with brand new pads. I tried the shims on slightly used pads (one run session) just to see if they helped. Reduced the squealing by about 90%...almost completely! Running DTC70s here--with shims...hear any squealing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeixvGMVBl8

The next time I put in new Hawks I forgot the shims and they squealed. Put the shims back...fixed. Can't guarantee it will work for you but it can't hurt. The shims I used are actually not from OEM Brembo pads, they are from EBC Blue Stuff pads. I tried them for 2 run sessions...pure crap...nice hard pedal but no stopping power. The pads were a loss but at least I made use of the shims!
 
159
5
Georgia
Thanks for everyone's comments/thoughts.

I believe I am ready for next week end, well at least the car... now I got to work on the tow pig and trailer. ;)
 
bluemax said:
Thanks for everyone's comments/thoughts.

I believe I am ready for next week end, well at least the car... now I got to work on the tow pig and trailer. ;)
Well good luck and have fun! We'll be waiting for your report 8)
 
908ssp said:
The shim is often made of stainless or titanium both help insulate heat from getting in the fluid. The premium calipers use titanium rings embedded in the pistons to isolate heat from the fluid. I'd run the shims no reason not to.

That is correct as far as I know.

I had problems boiling the brakes a few months ago and installed heat shields from Hard Brakes, no issues this weekend.
 

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