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E85

I've noticed more and more track racers switching to E85, if they can get it. Current-gen Mustang guys say it cools their cylinder temps, gives great knock protection on the track, basically eliminates the #8 issue, and gives a nice power bump with a proper tune. Some say you only need the tune to run it, others say we'd also need to bump the injectors up to around 60lbs to accommodate the extra fuel flow needs. I know it's not available a lot of places, but here by my tracks (RA, Autobahn, Gingerman, etc) it's easy to get, so that is no issue.

So, the question - anyone done it? What did you think?
 
LateApex said:
I've noticed more and more track racers switching to E85, if they can get it. Current-gen Mustang guys say it cools their cylinder temps, gives great knock protection on the track, basically eliminates the #8 issue, and gives a nice power bump with a proper tune. Some say you only need the tune to run it, others say we'd also need to bump the injectors up to around 60lbs to accommodate the extra fuel flow needs. I know it's not available a lot of places, but here by my tracks (RA, Autobahn, Gingerman, etc) it's easy to get, so that is no issue.

So, the question - anyone done it? What did you think?
There's a lot of it around here and a bunch of the ricers run it. I've talked to a couple of Vette owners that run it as well.

On another note, if you're near RA, how about signing up for the Nordstern PCA event in a couple weeks so I'm not the ONLY Ford there. 109 cars....98 Porsches....1 Ford :-[
 
cloud9 said:
LateApex said:
I've noticed more and more track racers switching to E85, if they can get it. Current-gen Mustang guys say it cools their cylinder temps, gives great knock protection on the track, basically eliminates the #8 issue, and gives a nice power bump with a proper tune. Some say you only need the tune to run it, others say we'd also need to bump the injectors up to around 60lbs to accommodate the extra fuel flow needs. I know it's not available a lot of places, but here by my tracks (RA, Autobahn, Gingerman, etc) it's easy to get, so that is no issue.

So, the question - anyone done it? What did you think?
There's a lot of it around here and a bunch of the ricers run it. I've talked to a couple of Vette owners that run it as well.

On another note, if you're near RA, how about signing up for the Nordstern PCA event in a couple weeks so I'm not the ONLY Ford there. 109 cars....98 Porsches....1 Ford :-[

I used to be one of those, I even had the big wing. But it came from the factory that way at least ;)


E85 is the new meth injection for turbo cars, I never got into supercharged cars so don't know if those guys use it. The E85 can rot seals and lines if they are not designed to run it, and you need to push a lot more fuel to get the same power hence the larger injectors. I have never seen it make nearly enough gains on an NA motor to be worth doing, it is a little cheaper than gas but you burn a lot more of it. My personal experience with it is limited to a couple work trucks, my boss told me to fill them with it because it is cheaper but it ended up costing more in the end because of the drop in mpg. Some cars come with different ratings for hp/tq with e85, but again I have never seen enough difference to justify the increased cost, plus the required upgrades to run it. Also if you can't find it one day, you can't run regular gas with the same tune. If you are worried about track days, I would just toss a couple gallons of 100 in there to bump it.

On a turbo car it is pretty impressive gains for the price, and most imports have aftermarket switchable ecu programming now. So you just hit your hazards or whatever the trigger is if you have to use regular gas for a fill. But turbos can take advantage of the increased octane a lot better than an NA motor, where you really just can play with timing and ratios.

I don't have specific info on the Coyote/Roadrunners but that is my observations having been in the rice scene.
 
Ugh, I am already taking the Friday off work that week for the NASA event at Autobahn - I don't think I can swing Monday and Tuesday as well. I think one of my attorneys is going to that, has a red '11 997s that is fairly badass.

On the E85, yeah, it was the Evo and WRX guys who I saw first using it, but recently I'm seeing more Mustang and Vette guys among the track rats converting to it. If you put aside the issue of cost and availability, I am just wondering if it isn't simply a superior fuel. It's worth noting that in terms of NASA TT "cost", injectors, fuel pumps and lines, non-piggyback tuneers, and fuel types are free point mods, and of course nothing is crazy to a racer looking for an edge ;). A friend with an '11 GT told me he picked up 23 hp at the wheels, dyno'd, and around 20 degrees lower cylinder temps by switching, which would make this arguably the best zero-point mod around. Yeah the gains on an FI motor are better, but if that is true, then on our motors it certainly would not be insignificant.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
All the articles I have read you have to run new lines and bigger injectors and possible fuel pump to handle the extra demand. And seeing how E85 produces 27 percent less energy per gallon than gasoline. Like Cali said the gains I dont think will be worth it. They did a E85 NA motor on horse power tv it was worth like 15 hp on a very high compression motor. is that worth the 1-2 grand to upgrade all the stuff you need to run it on a NA car I dont think so. Thats a lot of bottles of lucus octane booster if all your worried about is the #8 cylinder
 
LateApex said:
I think one of my attorneys is going to that, has a red '11 997s that is fairly badass.
One of many badass Porsches registered. I've never seen so many late model high hp Porsches at one of their events. There are at least thirty 997 GT3RS, GT3, GT2 registered alone along with a 2012 McClaren. The Boss is going to look like a slalom cone :eek: At least I should be competitive with the other 80 cars, except they're mostly in the novice or intermediate groups. I'll be sure to check my mirrors often ;D
 
LateApex said:
Ugh, I am already taking the Friday off work that week for the NASA event at Autobahn - I don't think I can swing Monday and Tuesday as well. I think one of my attorneys is going to that, has a red '11 997s that is fairly badass.

On the E85, yeah, it was the Evo and WRX guys who I saw first using it, but recently I'm seeing more Mustang and Vette guys among the track rats converting to it. If you put aside the issue of cost and availability, I am just wondering if it isn't simply a superior fuel. It's worth noting that in terms of NASA TT "cost", injectors, fuel pumps and lines, non-piggyback tuneers, and fuel types are free point mods, and of course nothing is crazy to a racer looking for an edge ;). A friend with an '11 GT told me he picked up 23 hp at the wheels, dyno'd, and around 20 degrees lower cylinder temps by switching, which would make this arguably the best zero-point mod around. Yeah the gains on an FI motor are better, but if that is true, then on our motors it certainly would not be insignificant.

I thought tuning was points, maybe that is just with FI. Yeah if you are trying to win at TT and you can do all that without points then it is worth a try, but add in the cost of losing your motor warranty.
 
A piggyback or replacement ECU would be points, but a reflash tune of the stock ECU is free ;D. The warranty on the engine, however, keeps me at bay right now. This isn't some exhaust mod that you could argue - there'd be no escaping this one.
 
I run E85 in my Coyote.
12RWHP on the dyno and .1-.15 and 1mph in the 1/4.

I did have to upgrade the injectors. Otherwise the stock fuel system is up to the task.
 
I havhemi cars running e85 all over the country
Most do not use upgraded componets
The ones that do are high powered vehicles
We have seen torque increase up to the
45-50 ft pound area and 15-30 rwhp depending on
The car

High powered cars have seen and documented upwards of
150 rwhp gains tho

U will need the aftermarket tune with this change
To e85. Some mods i would think you might
Need is a upgraded injector or pump
Or both

I do not know the rated psi, lph or injector size used
On these cars

The hemis use a 30-34 pound injector. We installed
The 80 pound blue giants from ford for them to run
E85 and keep from going static or way lean

The a/f ratio needs to be in the 10.5-11.0 areA

To me it is a worth while mod. The cost to result is worth it. We would
Drop 2 tenths with ease. Plus mph increase

But ur fuel mileage is gonna be horrible. So if u have issues
At the track now. Its gonna be 30 percent less when u switch
Over
 
I run E85 in my Coyote.
12RWHP on the dyno and .1-.15 and 1mph in the 1/4.

I did have to upgrade the injectors. Otherwise the stock fuel system is up to the task.

So Shaun, if I were to do this with a Boss, you'd be up to the challenge with a tune?
 
If the vehicle does not say flex fuel compatable then you are taking a hugh risk. Just like when unleaded fuel was introduced. The main area effected is the valves, valve seats & the aluminum cyl heads corrode behind the valve seats. This causes the valves to receed into the cyl head plus coolant leaks. Current pump fuel is E10 & the Midwest corn growers are pushing for E15. The big 3 & the foreign automakers are fighting approving this fuel. It seems anything over E15 is very corrosive to the engine. This also causes issues with chain saws, weed wackers etc where you can't shut them off. Also better not have a plastic fuel tank.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
bulldogracer said:
If the vehicle does not say flex fuel compatable then you are taking a hugh risk. Just like when unleaded fuel was introduced. The main area effected is the valves, valve seats & the aluminum cyl heads corrode behind the valve seats. This causes the valves to receed into the cyl head plus coolant leaks. Current pump fuel is E10 & the Midwest corn growers are pushing for E15. The big 3 & the foreign automakers are fighting approving this fuel. It seems anything over E15 is very corrosive to the engine. This also causes issues with chain saws, weed wackers etc where you can't shut them off. Also better not have a plastic fuel tank.
I can attest to that my weed eater it's fuel lines crumbled to nothing after two years using e10
 
LateApex said:
I run E85 in my Coyote.
12RWHP on the dyno and .1-.15 and 1mph in the 1/4.

I did have to upgrade the injectors. Otherwise the stock fuel system is up to the task.

So Shaun, if I were to do this with a Boss, you'd be up to the challenge with a tune?

No problem at all. Done quite a few actually.
The Fuel lines / rails are stainless steel and are E85 compatible. Most Fuel injectors these days are also E85 compatible. The fuel tank is plastic.
 

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