Do LCA Relocation Brackets increase the potential of understeer or worsening what is already there??
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LCA Relocation question
- Thread starter2012Boss302
- Start date
Grant 302
basic and well known psychic
2012Boss302 said:
Maybe...for corner exit. It also depends on the original frame of reference...on a lowered car it might just be correcting oversteer tendencies but on a stock height car might add roll oversteer.
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LCA relo brackets will increase steering on corner entry and mid corner. It'll feel like more rotation as you are getting a mild rear steer effect. Stock position control arms at stock height will yield rear understeer (bc rear axle is steering in the same direction as the front wheels). With LCA relo's, the rear axle steers slightly opposite to the front wheels, so you get a bit of 4 wheel steer.
If you want to counteract understeer, it's better to address which phase in the corner you want this corrected in...because your choice of parts and setup to address this 1 thing will affect other areas of the corner (possibly in a negative way). Often times it's going to be a bit of a compromise.
If you want to counteract understeer, it's better to address which phase in the corner you want this corrected in...because your choice of parts and setup to address this 1 thing will affect other areas of the corner (possibly in a negative way). Often times it's going to be a bit of a compromise.
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Relo brackets on a lowered car definitely increases understeer at every phase of a corner. My current '13 LS has relos and my '12 Boss did not - P springs on LS, Steeda Ultralites on '12.
The '12 without them would oversteer very badly and at very odd times, even at high speeds (way worse than stock). Some of which I could blame on the stock P Zeros but even on a warm day with warm tires, the car was very skittish with bigger throttle applications.
The LS w/relos is a much more stable car on the throttle and actually tends toward a little more understeer than I prefer.
The '12 without them would oversteer very badly and at very odd times, even at high speeds (way worse than stock). Some of which I could blame on the stock P Zeros but even on a warm day with warm tires, the car was very skittish with bigger throttle applications.
The LS w/relos is a much more stable car on the throttle and actually tends toward a little more understeer than I prefer.
I replaced my LCA's with the CHI and I had noticed that the ass end comes out a lot easier but predictably, no more wheel hop but linear lack of traction. I thought about relocation brackets to change the attitude but I'm not so sure.
Just had a tire test day with Capaldi Racing at COTA. They brought three cars (including a '14 test mule) and two Ford Racing engineers. Two of the three cars were equipped with relo brackets, but ALL of them had the LCAs at stock location. I noticed the same at the COTA WC race earlier in the year (photo). When I asked about it, Craig Capaldi said, "Why would we want to give-up grip?" He didn't elaborate and I didn't ask further. I will reach-out to them today and find out if that is simply how they like to set-up their cars or if there is another absolute reason why they aren't using the adjustments.
Jimmy Pribble said:
Just had a tire test day with Capaldi Racing at COTA. They brought three cars (including a '14 test mule) and two Ford Racing engineers. Two of the three cars were equipped with relo brackets, but ALL of them had the LCAs at stock location. I noticed the same at the COTA WC race earlier in the year (photo). When I asked about it, Craig Capaldi said, "Why would we want to give-up grip?" He didn't elaborate and I didn't ask further. I will reach-out to them today and find out if that is simply how they like to set-up their cars or if there is another absolute reason why they aren't using the adjustments.
They have them fully welded as well I see. I wonder what loss of grip Craig meant? Front or Rear? By changing the LCA angle down in the rear it realigns the arm to the original angle on cars lowered 1 or more inches. On stock ride height using the adjustments, it adds anti squat which will add rear axle forward bite, what it does to cornering I don't have the knowledge to explain. I defer to more educated suspension experts among us.
Steve
Edit:My bad, they don't have them welded, I was seeing the welds on the axle brackets.
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Well that blows my theory out of the water, Jimmy!
Very interesting. I wonder if they are tinkering with geometry via something else? Are they running Watts links? Adjustable length LCAs? UCAs?
Thank you for that info.
John
Very interesting. I wonder if they are tinkering with geometry via something else? Are they running Watts links? Adjustable length LCAs? UCAs?
Thank you for that info.
John
Champale said:
Well, let's just see what answers I can get out of them. The '14 test mule has a Watts Link, because this will be the first year they are allowed. The other two cars have typical setup, as far as I can tell. They all use the Ford Racing non-adjustable LCA. I do not know about the UCA. Same applies to the two different cars I saw earlier in the year.
The fact that four out of the five cars in question still have the relo brackets make me think that maybe they are used for certain tracks or conditions. Otherwise, why bother carrying them around?
So IMSA is going to allow them to run a Watts link for 2014? Do you know which one they are using? Regarding the UCA previously they were only allowed to use the Multimatic modified stock unit that was stupid expensive. Regarding the location of the LCA's in the relocation brackets will the size of the rear sway bar affect this decision?Jimmy Pribble said:
NFSBOSS said:
Not sure about IMSA; this will be for WC. Also, I am unclear if this has been determined. This might just be an evaluation period with a VTS change TBD. Here is the request:
http://www.world-challenge.com/files/competitors/Mustang%20WattsLink%20request.pdf
Cortex unit. I was told this is a new part under evaluation. Expect revisions (if it is even used/released at all). Back on topic - here is another photo of unused relo brackets.
Good find and I don't think this is off topic since it relates to under/oversteer. I really like the build quality of the Cortex Watts link. I wonder if it's approved if we'll see it on the 302S? Note in your photo that the rear sway bar is very small.
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This is wht I like asking questions here, good responses to think about and no references to the search button, Thanks guys. I'm going to put some on, if I don't like them I can always take them off...
Robert
Robert
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