Oil pressure dropping to critical levels under hard braking (Headscratcher)

[steveespo]

I'd expect that if the check valve was both working and installed backwards, he'd have lots of oil pressure at the sensor which is upstream of the valve and none in the engine which is downstream. As you say, though, if the pan has enough oil, he shouldn't need the Accusump. Maybe a test drive with it switched off is in order - a lap or two working up the speed and g's to see how the pressure goes.

 

[steveespo]

I'd expect that if the check valve was both working and installed backwards, he'd have lots of oil pressure at the sensor which is upstream of the valve and none in the engine which is downstream. As you say, though, if the pan has enough oil, he shouldn't need the Accusump. Maybe a test drive with it switched off is in order - a lap or two working up the speed and g's to see how the pressure goes.

No I don't think so, if backwards his engine would see zero oil pressure and other bad things would happen.

 

[JAJ]

No I don't think so, if backwards his engine would see zero oil pressure and other bad things would happen. View attachment 95986

Exactly. We agree.

What I was talking about with pressure at the gauge and at the engine is that while the layout drawing in Post 12 shows the sender on the engine, in Post 18 the OP says "My oil pressure sender is located in the small port of the M-6881-M50A Ford Racing Remote Oil Filter adapter" which would position the sender at the filter which is in-line before the check valve. If the check valve was a) working and b) backwards, the way the sender is located could create a horrible situation - you start the engine, see the pressure on the readout is high and relax while the engine runs with no oil at all. That's not what's happening here, thank goodness.

 

[sldghmr]

Check valve was definitely installed correctly (direction-wise)...it just wasn't working. Got a junkyard motor (complete head to toe) put in the racecar now. Due to time constraints, I am not installing the GT500 pan, pump, valve covers , I just moved over the cooler, lines (without check valve or tee fitting) and remote filter. Going to shift at 6000rpm and see if I can get some good data. Going to make sure oil level is just below the top dot. Not having the baffled pan I don't want to run hard.....plus I need to get some points on the board

 

[sldghmr]

Looking better....stock oil pump, pan, pickup tube, but still w/remote oil filter and -12 lines, and big oil cooler. Oil pressure only dipped down to idle pressures under braking into T1 but the recovery was instantaneous!

 

[steveespo]

Looking better....stock oil pump, pan, pickup tube, but still w/remote oil filter and -12 lines, and big oil cooler. Oil pressure only dipped down to idle pressures under braking into T1 but the recovery was instantaneous!
View attachment 96112

You definitely need a pan that keeps the oil pickup covered. I don't like the oil pressure down at 32 at 3825 rpm under only a -1g brake peak. We see -1.5g and lateral g sums of 2.0 sometimes and don't have any pressure drop with either the GT500 or FPRP steel road race pans. Your G Sum at this point is 1.7 which is pretty high. Did you check clearance of the pickup to bottom of pan? Looking for 1/4"-5/16". 3/8" is the absolute outside limit.

 

[sldghmr]

You definitely need a pan that keeps the oil pickup covered. I don't like the oil pressure down at 32 at 3825 rpm under only a -1g brake peak. We see -1.5g and lateral g sums of 2.0 sometimes and don't have any pressure drop with either the GT500 or FPRP steel road race pans. Your G Sum at this point is 1.7 which is pretty high. Did you check clearance of the pickup to bottom of pan? Looking for 1/4"-5/16". 3/8" is the absolute outside limit.

Definitely want to keep the pickup covered. Will be putting the GT500 pan (and pump) sooner rather than later. The pickup clearance of the engine that's in the car was not checked (stock unopened OEM engine). Thank you for the clearance limits, we will make sure we're within that range.
Question: can you run the GT500 pan w/the stock 5.0L pickup tube?

 

[steveespo]

Definitely want to keep the pickup covered. Will be putting the GT500 pan (and pump) sooner rather than later. The pickup clearance of the engine that's in the car was not checked (stock unopened OEM engine). Thank you for the clearance limits, we will make sure we're within that range.
Question: can you run the GT500 pan w/the stock 5.0L pickup tube?

No and you wouldn't want to. The whole GT500 pump and pickup is substantially larger than the stock steel or plastic pan setup. Gears are thicker and stronger. I see 115 psi warm at 2800+ RPM, full hot never drops below 88, that's why I'm concerned with that much drop on your car.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I would just add that even getting 75 psi at the track on a Coyote is RED ALERT time.

 

[bauern]

Question: can you run the GT500 pan w/the stock 5.0L pickup tube?

Only if you want the pickup to pan clearance to be over 1 inch.

 

[sldghmr]

Okie doke! Motor coming back out

 

[sldghmr]

Pulled back up motor out and have installed the GT500 pump, pickup, and pan. Threw on an ATI dampener and GT500 valve covers (from the blow'd up motor) while we were in there. Dropping the engine back in tomorrow...Looking to see how the oil pressure acts now. Will be going to Watkins Glen on the 29th-30th (for the 1st time), so between not being familiar with the track and tip toeing around, not sure how good the data will be.....

 

[l8tapex]

Pulled back up motor out and have installed the GT500 pump, pickup, and pan. Threw on an ATI dampener and GT500 valve covers (from the blow'd up motor) while we were in there. Dropping the engine back in tomorrow...Looking to see how the oil pressure acts now. Will be going to Watkins Glen on the 29th-30th (for the 1st time), so between not being familiar with the track and tip toeing around, not sure how good the data will be.....

checking in to see how its been working. Got a 2017 now cause of rule change. The pro design 4.6 was ready to be assembled. We stopped. I was hoping to see if oiling issues on your Gen2 have been addressed as to not have same issue. Thanks for the content.

 

[sldghmr]

checking in to see how its been working. Got a 2017 now cause of rule change. The pro design 4.6 was ready to be assembled. We stopped. I was hoping to see if oiling issues on your Gen2 have been addressed as to not have same issue. Thanks for the content.

Thanks for the reminder! Meant to get back on here. Good news, bad news situation....
Good: Oil issues are better! The GT500 pan & pump, oil cooler w/12AN lines, and remote filter and voila! Under hard braking/turning, my oil pressures have not dropped below 40-50psi no matter how low my RPM goes. At idle after a 25min session, it's at 30psi hot. Looking at my data is showing that the 10psi/1000rpm is being covered.
@Mad Hatter - I don't know what else I can do to get a low of 75psi!! I'm being told that my braking is not at an upper limit (-1.5g) [yet], so not sure where to go from here.....
I'll be adding the Accusump back in whenever I get a good check valve.

The bad news: Last lap of the race at Watkins Glen on Sunday and I ran into a pile of Miatas! Fortunately mostly body damage (hood, passenger fender, front bumper cover, both headlights, radiator, coolant bottle, and radiator core support). Been scavenging parts and dealing w/body shop but my engine oil cooler survived the crash!!

 

[steveespo]

Thanks for the reminder! Meant to get back on here. Good news, bad news situation....
Good: Oil issues are better! The GT500 pan & pump, oil cooler w/12AN lines, and remote filter and voila! Under hard braking/turning, my oil pressures have not dropped below 40-50psi no matter how low my RPM goes. At idle after a 25min session, it's at 30psi hot. Looking at my data is showing that the 10psi/1000rpm is being covered.
@Mad Hatter - I don't know what else I can do to get a low of 75psi!! I'm being told that my braking is not at an upper limit (-1.5g) [yet], so not sure where to go from here.....
I'll be adding the Accusump back in whenever I get a good check valve.

The bad news: Last lap of the race at Watkins Glen on Sunday and I ran into a pile of Miatas! Fortunately mostly body damage (hood, passenger fender, front bumper cover, both headlights, radiator, coolant bottle, and radiator core support). Been scavenging parts and dealing w/body shop but my engine oil cooler survived the crash!!

Ouch about the crash. The pump/pan combo is working. What oil are you running? What adapter from block to oil filter adapter? Sorry if you posted but I am lazy.

 

[sldghmr]

Ouch about the crash. The pump/pan combo is working. What oil are you running? What adapter from block to oil filter adapter? Sorry if you posted but I am lazy.

Not a problem...
My setup:
Gen 2 coyote w/GT500 oil pan, GT500 oil pump, -12 lines, Earl's Ultra Pro 34row oil cooler (834-16ERL), OEM 5.0 windage tray/oil pan gasket, FR remote oil adapter (M-6881-M50A), FRPP Control pack, Watson Racing radiator, 170deg thermostat
I'm running 5w-50 oil. The only other significant thing that comes to mind is that block adapter holes are terribly misaligned (see pics: https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/fitment-issues-w-m-6881-m50a-oil-line-adapter.20748/ )

I still get spikes just not as low now.....and the recovery is quick. Let me dig up new data from this past weeekend testing....

 

[sldghmr]

 

[steveespo]

how much oil to fill total and what filter are you running.I don't have experience with Earl's Oil coolers but will look for pressure drop statistics on it.

 

[steveespo]

Looks like Earl's either copied Setrab style coolers or Setrab makes them for Holley or vice versa. No pressure drop data found but tye inlet size at the cooler shows -10ORB with -12AN fitting available. Your data does indicate pressure drop under braking clearly, RPM related too as the rpm is down around 3000 at the 44 psi number.

 

[sldghmr]

Looks like Earl's either copied Setrab style coolers or Setrab makes them for Holley or vice versa. No pressure drop data found but tye inlet size at the cooler shows -10ORB with -12AN fitting available. Your data does indicate pressure drop under braking clearly, RPM related too as the rpm is down around 3000 at the 44 psi number.

I need to double check...I may have given the wrong part number...I thought the inlet size was -16AN (I know they are huge! I had to get two reducers down to -12AN). Running a WIX Racing oil filter.

Well, that just sucks! I just bought this oil cooler and now it's coming up as 'discontinued' ?? Even the larger ones are all -10AN sized.....