S197 Spring and Sway Bar Rates

[Grant 302]

Well *that* makes sense! I know those have been floating around for a while, but are still active in the red car build thread.

 

[modernbeat]

The force measurements are accurate. Just the calculations in the right column have been changed to be more accurate.

 

[twistedneck]

Hey everyone.. if ypu have any questions on the stock boss stabars and bushings those were my babies and i still have all the design info, bushing rates etc. Same w s550 and gt350 and beyond.. hit me up!

 

[VoodooBoss]

@twistedneck can you share the stabar, spring and bushing differences between the GT350 and GT350R?

 

[twistedneck]

Ill get specifics monday.

From what i remember the R has less bar rate in the rear. Same in front

Both gt350 and the R have exact same 65 durometer rubber front bush bonded to bar w metal internal rate plates and a shaped bottom sled plate base.
Crap.. i might be wrong it could be the slippy bush in front.. ill dig it up.

Newest design already testing is over 1.5 lbs lighter, softer rubber, yet higher rates! U will like it.

Dont forget two different folks tuned those..350 VS R. Different philosophy. One liked huge bars one liked smaller.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Thanks. Was Billy Johnson involved in the tuning? Or the VDE’s that tuned the original suspension? I met a couple of those guys a few years ago.

 

[twistedneck]

DR3V-5482-DC = 34.6x5.5

I think that is the boss front bar. Ill get some rates on it.

I was not part of the tuning group.. it was not svt do t forget it was core group

 

[JBentley7]

This is some really good stuff, like a cheat sheet almost.

 

[V8VOL]

New info for H&R Race springs for the 11-14 GT.....51690-88 Progressive 325F 285R

 

[Coz]

While there are no published stats on the FRPP M-5490-A Blue Bar set, does anyone have any subjective experience with the 22mm rear bar as compared to the V6 22mm?

Are they the same or is the blue bar made of stiffer/solid steel.

I'm looking to try a move from my oem GT 24mm bar.

Thanks

EDIT - removed reference to middle position of the rear bar since only the front is adjustable.

 

[4dMuscle]

Hyperco springs offered by Vorshlag with/or without MCS dampers for the S197:

• Vorshlag's GT Spring Package is 450 #/in Front / 175 #/in Rear
• Vorshlag's GTS Spring Package is 550 #/in Front / 250 #/in Rear
• Vorshlag's GTR Spring Package is 800 #/in Front / 275 #/in Rear

 

[Jimmy Pribble]

Hey, it's that guy that does things years after everyone else has moved on. Did anyone ever get rates on the FR "blue bar" (front)?

As payment for that info, I will add the following:
H&R RSS Coil Overs (p/n: RSS29170): 1.2-2.7 in. drop F / 1.2-2.5 in. drop R - 630 # Front / 515 # R
H&R Coil Over Springs for RSS29170 (p/n: 29170CS3): 1.2-2.7 in. drop F / 1.2-2.5 in. drop R - 715 # Front / 600 # R
Bonus race setup seen in 2013:
2013 WC Boss 302S at COTA was running 900 # F / 400 # R (20 mm rear sway)
Another one was running 300 # R (FR "blue" 22 mm rear sway)

 

[8bitmime]

I noticed the Whiteline springs are missing:
Front - 3.4kg/mm (190lb/in) - 35mm drop
Rear - 4.8kg/mm (269lb/in) - 45mm drop

 

[Theking]

Super snake optional Eibach coilover kit

Eibach Pro Street-S Coilovers - #35115.711
2007-2008 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Coupe, V8-5.4L-SC, S197
2007-2008 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Convertible V8-5.4L-SC, S197

Description Part Number Qty
Front Coil Over Assembly 35115.8100 2
Front Main Spring 35115.701 2 =400lbs/in
Front Spacer Spacer250.0 2
Front Helper 0175.250.0150.0 2
Front Bump Stop BS770014 2
Rear Damper 35101.8004 2
Rear Spring 35115.702 2 = 275lbs/in
Rear Adjustable Collar 8000155 2
Rear Bump Stop BS45001617 2

 

[Tim.ocon]

S197 Springs Front/Rear:
OEM:
Boss 302 ................... 148F/186R lbs/in
Boss 302 Laguna Seca 137F/191R lbs/in
Brembo GT/ GTPP ...... 131F/167R lbs/in
GT and V6PP............... 123F/156R lbs/in
P Springs (1" drop) 230-260/202 (est - may be same as published K below)
K Springs (1.5" drop) M-5300-KA Front: 228 lb/in. Rear: 199.5 lb/in.
T Springs (0.6/1.4" drop Boss reference) M-5300-T Front: ??? Rear: 199.5 lb/in. (uses K spring rear)
GT500 -

Aftermarket:
Steeda Ultra Lites 555-8206 (1.25/1.5" drop) - 195lb front, 175lb rear
Steeda Sport Springs 555-8215 (1.0/1.25" drop) - 200lb front, 175lb rear
Steeda Comp Springs Boss 302 555-8245 (0.2"/0.8" drop-Boss reference) - 225lb front, 195lb rear
Eibach sportline 4.12535 (1.6"/2") Front: 183 lb/in. Rear: 103-217 lb/in.
Eibach Pro kit GT/Boss 35125.140 (1.0/1.5" drop)
Eibach Pro kit 35101.140 '05-10GT/'10V6 Front: 171-228 lb/in. Rear: 180 lb/in.
MM R&T Lowering Coupe 435H0 (1.9/2" drop) 320-360F / 260-380R ('vert same rates)
H&R Super Sport 51655-77 (1.7/1.9 drop) ~250lb/in / rear: ~200lb/in
H&R Race 51655-88 (1.5/1.4 drop) ~300lb/in / rear: ~275lb/in
BMR Lowering SP009 (1.5" drop) 165 lb. - Front, 160 lb. - Rear
BMR Handling SP065 (1.5" drop) 240 lb/in front (linear), 200 lb/in rear (dual-rate)
BMR Handling SP072 (1.5" drop w/GT500)(~0.5"F/~1"R on GT) 260 lb/in front (linear), 220 lb/in rear (dual-rate)
SR Performance (1.5" drop) Front: 230 lb/in. Rear: 200 lb/in.
Pedders SportsRyder 1" lowering F: 200.8 lb/in R: 186.2 lb/in


FRONT S197 Bars:
34.6mm GT/Boss/LS .................. 436 lbs/in
34mm '05-'10GT/GT500/'11 V6 ... 385 lbs/in
33.2mm '12+ V6
28.6mm 2010 V6
Ford 35mm 'Blue' bar M-5490-AF (Part of M-5490-A kit)
Eibach 36mm: 340, 400, 450 lbs/in
BMR-SB022 35mm: 441, 506, 587 lbs/in
BMR-SB041 38mm: 706, 788, 886, 1002, 1144 lbs/in
Strano Performance 35mm hollow: 472, 547, 642 lbs/in

REAR S197 Bars:
Ford 13mm Solid (Boss 302S):............ 18 lbs/in
Ford 18mm Solid (Convertible):........... 55 lbs/in
Ford 20mm Solid (2005-2010 GT):....... 96 lbs/in
Ford 22mm Solid (2011+ V-6):........... 147 lbs/in
Ford 23mm Solid
Ford 24mm Solid (2011+ 5.0, GT500): 193 lbs/in
Ford 25mm Solid (Boss 302):............. 250 lbs/in
Ford 26mm Solid (Laguna Seca):........ 275 lbs/in
Ford 22mm 'Blue' bar M-5490-AR (Part of M-5490-A kit)

Eibach 25mm: 130, 145, 175 lbs/in
Strano Performance Parts 8419 1" tubular: 162, 185, 225 lbs/in
BMR-SB023: 146 lbs/in
BMR-SB042 25mm: 224, 259, 302, 356 lbs/in
Whiteline 27mm 'calculated' from stated increase over 24mm?GT bar: 266, 309, 357, 411 lbs/in

Been meaning to do this for a while now...
Please post any additions and corrections, I'll get to updating and reformatting as info gets added.

Is the Steeda comp boss spring (0.2-0.8) the drop front to rear compared to stock BOSS springs or stock gt/v6 springs?

 

[Fabman]

Hey everyone.. if ypu have any questions on the stock boss stabars and bushings those were my babies and i still have all the design info, bushing rates etc. Same w s550 and gt350 and beyond.. hit me up!

Do you have access to the s197 Ford Racing Blue bar rates?
Specifically the front bar.

 

[twistedneck]

Do you have access to the s197 Ford Racing Blue bar rates?
Specifically the front bar.

No those were designed by Ford racing.. they didn't ask us to make them and their pretty blue paint.

Edit: if you can tell me the outer diameter and wall thickness i can calculate the rate as a comparison to all the other Factory sizes, however the rate is dependent upon bushing stiffness and that's why the FEA rates never match the measured rates, every bushing is different due to more or less rubber (bigger and smaller bar OD, same bushing OD, differing ID's ). To find the wall measure the flattened end and then you can get 2x wall there.. but that's usually 1mm less than 2x wall cause they want to squish it slightly beyond flat.

 

[Fabman]

No those were designed by Ford racing.. they didn't ask us to make them and their pretty blue paint.

Edit: if you can tell me the outer diameter and wall thickness i can calculate the rate as a comparison to all the other Factory sizes, however the rate is dependent upon bushing stiffness and that's why the FEA rates never match the measured rates, every bushing is different due to more or less rubber (bigger and smaller bar OD, same bushing OD, differing ID's ). To find the wall measure the flattened end and then you can get 2x wall there.. but that's usually 1mm less than 2x wall cause they want to squish it slightly beyond flat.

I like blue.
I sold mine when I went to the SLA so I don't have one to measure.
A buddy has a 35mm bar from BMR and I'm hoping the rates are similar because I have setup info from when I had the strut front end.
This is for my sons track car and a free sway bar fits his budget providing the rate works.

EDIT: Seems similar bars are all over the place.

34.6mm GT/Boss/LS .................. 436 lbs/in
34mm '05-'10GT/GT500/'11 V6 ... 385 lbs/in
33.2mm '12+ V6
28.6mm 2010 V6
Ford 35mm 'Blue' bar M-5490-AF (Part of M-5490-A kit)
Eibach 36mm: 340, 400, 450 lbs/in
BMR-SB022 35mm: 441, 506, 587 lbs/in
BMR-SB041 38mm: 706, 788, 886, 1002, 1144 lbs/in
Strano Performance 35mm hollow: 472, 547, 642 lbs/in

 

[twistedneck]

I like blue.
I sold mine when I went to the SLA so I don't have one to measure.
A buddy has a 35mm bar from BMR and I'm hoping the rates are similar because I have setup info from when I had the strut front end.
This is for my sons track car and a free sway bar fits his budget providing the rate works.

EDIT: Seems similar bars are all over the place.

34.6mm GT/Boss/LS .................. 436 lbs/in
34mm '05-'10GT/GT500/'11 V6 ... 385 lbs/in
33.2mm '12+ V6
28.6mm 2010 V6
Ford 35mm 'Blue' bar M-5490-AF (Part of M-5490-A kit)
Eibach 36mm: 340, 400, 450 lbs/in
BMR-SB022 35mm: 441, 506, 587 lbs/in
BMR-SB041 38mm: 706, 788, 886, 1002, 1144 lbs/in
Strano Performance 35mm hollow: 472, 547, 642 lbs/in

Agreed, rates are all over the place especially with the poly bushings involved. when i sorted out my front and rear roll couple i had just about every front and rear bar to choose from. i have coilovers.. and ended up with 34.6x4.4 wall thickness GT front and 18mm solid rear bar. Those coil overs really change things. I also have very soft 375 lbs/in front and 150 lbs/in rear springs. The car is soft but very well behaved in terms of ride frequency and roll couple balance. Now i just have to get my tires and camber right.

 

[Mark ap]

Is the Steeda comp boss spring (0.2-0.8) the drop front to rear compared to stock BOSS springs or stock gt/v6 springs?

I'm trying to find replacement front sway bar bushings for a 13 boss 302. It has the 34.6mm bar. All I can find is the 35mm bushings. Anyone know where to find the correct size bushings? Ford discontinued them. All of the aftermarket selection is 35mm.
Thanks.