strange tire wear

[Hermes]

Just got back from a very fun track day at Watkins Glen and while bleeding my brakes and changing over to my street rotors and pads, I noticed pretty bad graining on the INSIDE of my right front tire. Everything is stock on my suspension so it shouldn't be too much negative camber. These are the stock P Zeros.

I was always checking the tires expecting the outside edge to wear, not the inside. The outside edge of this tire is normal. The left front tire is normal inside and out. Anyone ever see this before or have any guesses? I'm planning on getting some camber plates soon and can have the alignment checked before and after installing the plates to see if it somehow got out of whack, but I was under the impression that toe is about all they can adjust with the stock suspension.

Inside of right front tire


Close up of inside of right front tire


Outside of right front tire

 

[boro92]

Wow that's pretty crazy.
Is this on both sides? I'd be checking for proper alignment, or even wear in the tierods.

 

[06mach1]

Could it be that the air pressure was low on that side?

 

[boro92]

Could it be that the air pressure was low on that side?

If air pressure was low, OP would get more sidewall roll over and scuff the outer edge of the tire instead. I don't think this is pressure related.
And to in addition, the wear is really uneven (it's wavey) and looks very much like toe wear to me...or minor movement in a tie rod.

At first I was going to say wheel bearings are a possibility, as wear from worn bearings look similar...however, a worn wheelbearing would have poor camber control, and we'd see this sort of wear on the outside edge instead...so I took that out of the equasion.

Our cars have -1 camber in stock form. So given some decent camber control, the wear would be contained in the inside...but also, this is driver dependent.

 

[Hermes]

The wear is only on the passenger side front tire. The drivers side has very even wear.

The air pressure has always been good on this car. I typically set it at 34 cold for street driving and at the track I set it to 41 hot at the end of each session. Never had to adjust more than a couple psi.

I just made an appointment to have the alignment checked. Visually, everything 'looks' OK. Now I know I don't have a calibrated eyeball to check alignment, but I can tell the difference between a stock suspension and one with camber plates maybe running -2 or -2.5 camber, and this wheel does not look cambered in at all. I'll see what the dealer finds when they look at the alignment.

 

[JScheier]

It looks like de-lamination from heat. What direction is the track (Clockwise, Counter-Clockwise)? If its all right hand turns, it could have been dragging the inside of the front passenger tire and over heating it. HOWEVER, I would have expected high heat / wear on the outside of the driver's side tire as well.

If you really want an expert opinion, e-mail a photo to one of the TireRack gurus and see what they come back with. Jim@tirerack is who I usually deal with / buy from.

 

[Hermes]

It looks like de-lamination from heat. What direction is the track (Clockwise, Counter-Clockwise)? If its all right hand turns, it could have been dragging the inside of the front passenger tire and over heating it. HOWEVER, I would have expected high heat / wear on the outside of the driver's side tire as well.

If you really want an expert opinion, e-mail a photo to one of the TireRack gurus and see what they come back with. Jim@tirerack is who I usually deal with / buy from.

Thanks for your feedback. The track is clockwise with roughly 8 right hand turns and 6 left hand turns. I agree with your assessment of delamination and I did note the tires were loosing grip towards the end of my last 2 sessions which would indicate high temp. I did note that the inside of that tire was worn [although it was smooth wear] when I put my track pads and calipers last Saturday. I will send the pics to Jim at TireRack and see what he says. These tires are toast as they have 7 track days and 15k street miles on them, my concern is that I don't fry my next set because something is out of whack with my suspension.

 

[Grant 302]

Thanks for your feedback. The track is clockwise with roughly 8 right hand turns and 6 left hand turns. I agree with your assessment of delamination and I did note the tires were loosing grip towards the end of my last 2 sessions which would indicate high temp. I did note that the inside of that tire was worn [although it was smooth wear] when I put my track pads and calipers last Saturday. I will send the pics to Jim at TireRack and see what he says. These tires are toast as they have 7 track days and 15k street miles on them, my concern is that I don't fry my next set because something is out of whack with my suspension.

I think the only issue here is tire age and street wear. Before I got to your mileage above, I was planning to ask... Street wear to 15k miles on the stock camber should get the inside edge pretty thin without track days. Frankly, I'm surprised the delamination didn't happen sooner.

I don't think anybody has run that far with that many track days. So I don't think you need to do anything else to maximize your tread wear on your next set. You're doing a good job IMO. My only suggestion is to go to the track more often, and you won't have this issue!

 

[Hermes]

I think the only issue here is tire age and street wear. Before I got to your mileage above, I was planning to ask... Street wear to 15k miles on the stock camber should get the inside edge pretty thin without track days. Frankly, I'm surprised the delamination didn't happen sooner.

I don't think anybody has run that far with that many track days. So I don't think you need to do anything else to maximize your tread wear on your next set. You're doing a good job IMO. My only suggestion is to go to the track more often, and you won't have this issue!

I like the way you think. Spoke to some guys at work that have a lot of track experience and no one understands why the right front tire is so bad when the left front is fine, but generally people believe may just be something with that one tire not handling heat as well as the other, or some sort of tire defect. If it were due to camber or even caster and only affected one tire, then I should have felt the car pulling, but it tracks straight with no issues. Well, I'll still get the alignment checked and make sure I pick up a set of track tires that can handle the heat.

 

[isrboss]

I am almost certain you have a belt separation there. Notice the small cracks more toward the center, that make me think the internal/belt separation.

 

[Justin]

maybe take it to the dealer maybe they will give you some new tires under warranty lol

 

[Hermes]

I am almost certain you have a belt separation there. Notice the small cracks more toward the center, that make me think the internal/belt separation.

I agree, I'm starting to think that heat must have cause an internal failure [belt separation as you said] and it is just coincidence that the inside edge is where the tire failed first. At first I thought something went out with the alignment but as the car doesn't pull or behave as the tires are misaligned, I'm no longer thinking this was the cause.

maybe take it to the dealer maybe they will give you some new tires under warranty lol

Well, I am going to get the alignment checked anyway, and will have the dealer do it as I have another small issue I want to talk to them about. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm not good looking enough to be able to sweet talk them into giving me a new tire. :

 

[NewBossowner]

Well, I am going to get the alignment checked anyway, and will have the dealer do it as I have another small issue I want to talk to them about. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm not good looking enough to be able to sweet talk them into giving me a new tire. :

Looks have nothing to do with it. Be polite, a little puzzled why 1 tire would fall apart like that when the other 3 are still perfectly useable and a little indignant when they waffle on a fix, but still remain polite. You would be surprised what they will do for you, even if you don't have great legs, a short skirt and a low cut top.