What am I doing wrong with my camber?

[JP X]

I've been running 275's in front on Apex EC-7 et40's and decided to go square with 305's on forged 19x11's, et52 with 25mm spacers. I've been to two shops now, and the most camber they both say they can give me is 1.5 driver side and 1.1 passenger. There's no room between the sidewall and the coil-over to get more from the slotted bolt hole on the coilover. You can see in the pics that the camber plates are maxed. I’m running Ohlin’s R&T coilovers.

 

[JDee]

Jeez, there's something really off with that. On my '16 with Vorshlag plates, Ford racing track suspension and opened up towers I could get -4.
With the 2023 Mach 1 and el cheapo BMR plates I am getting -2.2 without cutting anything. And -2.2 works for me since I'm back to using this car as a street car as well as for track days and I don't want to screw around with different settings for street/track.
I'm running a 25mm spacer and have no sign of interference anywhere with 305/30/19 on 11" Apex wheels.
You could try using a camber bolt to see if that might help, I know of guys who got -2 with just the bolt and a bit of clearancing with a dremel grinder and nothing else.
Those plates look kind of beat up, were they used? Just wondering if that might be involved somehow?

 

[JP X]

Jeez, there's something really off with that. On my '16 with Vorshlag plates, Ford racing track suspension and opened up towers I could get -4.
With the 2023 Mach 1 and el cheapo BMR plates I am getting -2.2 without cutting anything. And -2.2 works for me since I'm back to using this car as a street car as well as for track days and I don't want to screw around with different settings for street/track.
I'm running a 25mm spacer and have no sign of interference anywhere with 305/30/19 on 11" Apex wheels.
You could try using a camber bolt to see if that might help, I know of guys who got -2 with just the bolt and a bit of clearancing with a dremel grinder and nothing else.
Those plates look kind of beat up, were they used? Just wondering if that might be involved somehow?

The plates aren't used, just over the years the shops were not very gentle.

 

[JAJ]

The plates aren't used, just over the years the shops were not very gentle.

It does seem odd. Does the lower spring perch on the Ohlins kit sit above the top of the tire? If not, it could be part of the problem.

 

[JP X]

It does seem odd. Does the lower spring perch on the Ohlins kit sit above the top of the tire? If not, it could be part of the problem.

It is next to the tire. Are other coil-overs not the same?

 

[JAJ]

It is next to the tire. Are other coil-overs not the same?

View attachment 95652

My thought was that if you have to keep the top of the tire away from the strut to make room for the spring and its perch, the tire has to stand up straighter (less negative camber) than it would if the top of the tire could be angled in closer to the strut body. I had coilovers on a couple of my track cars a decade or more ago, and I ran springs that were short enough that the spring perch was above the tire. Camber wasn't a problem.

 

[bnight]

First of all how is your central bolt over the tower ? With my Ohlins and the Steeda Camber Plates the central bolt is below the tower so I use all the camber I can get that way -3.4 degrees:




Notice the right tower and how the nut is below the tower. That combined with minimal camber from the Ohlins sloted bolt was enough to tug the 305/30/19 under the fenders.

You can find more info in my build thread here:

S550 - 2017 Grabber Blue Mustang GT Build Thread

I'm curious, is there a reason you didn't purchase from Vorshlag? Do they not ship to Europe? Hope you get this resolved 👍

trackmustangsonline.com

 

[GAR944]

It is next to the tire. Are other coil-overs not the same?

View attachment 95652

It is next to the tire. Are other coil-overs not the same?

In response to the first question, it's a definite DEPENDS.
Stock arrangement. - sits over the tyre

8 inch spring - will hit the tyre

6 inch spring - back over the top of the tyre


The joys of maximum fitment requires maximum effort of finding the correct combination. Preferably before spending truck loads of cash.
To get maximum camber as you have discovered you need to be able to max out the camber gain at the strut leg as obviously a small movement here is a proportionally larger camber gain than the camber plates at the strut top. They are really a bonus an a fine tune facility if you want them exactly the same on either side.
To get the spring above the tyre you need to limit the overall length of spring and seats to the available length. That then may mean you need to run a stiffer spring rate as the shorter spring needs to hold the car up with less compression. Up to a point. Lots of maths, or trial and error.
Hence back to my photos, i swapped out higher spring rate springs with the same length spring initially. Less overall compression when loaded so the spring plates stayed low on the strut. I did some trial fits with wheels and spacers and ran into the same situation you are facing. Back to the catalogue and guess what, 6' version of the same spring rate would raise my spring platform to above my tyre. Mines worse as I'm on 20' rims. Oh to get some Apex wheels over to Australia.

Now back to your exact setup. I don't know about Ohlins specifically, but what the hell is that great big silver cup at the top that is moving your spring starting point an 1.5' further down. Without that you would probably clear the tyre with room to spare.
My springs start way closer to the top mount.

 

[blacksheep-1]

It is next to the tire. Are other coil-overs not the same?

In response to the first question, it's a definite DEPENDS.
Stock arrangement. - sits over the tyre
View attachment 95733
8 inch spring - will hit the tyre
View attachment 95734
6 inch spring - back over the top of the tyre
View attachment 95735

The joys of maximum fitment requires maximum effort of finding the correct combination. Preferably before spending truck loads of cash.
To get maximum camber as you have discovered you need to be able to max out the camber gain at the strut leg as obviously a small movement here is a proportionally larger camber gain than the camber plates at the strut top. They are really a bonus an a fine tune facility if you want them exactly the same on either side.
To get the spring above the tyre you need to limit the overall length of spring and seats to the available length. That then may mean you need to run a stiffer spring rate as the shorter spring needs to hold the car up with less compression. Up to a point. Lots of maths, or trial and error.
Hence back to my photos, i swapped out higher spring rate springs with the same length spring initially. Less overall compression when loaded so the spring plates stayed low on the strut. I did some trial fits with wheels and spacers and ran into the same situation you are facing. Back to the catalogue and guess what, 6' version of the same spring rate would raise my spring platform to above my tyre. Mines worse as I'm on 20' rims. Oh to get some Apex wheels over to Australia.

Now back to your exact setup. I don't know about Ohlins specifically, but what the hell is that great big silver cup at the top that is moving your spring starting point an 1.5' further down. Without that you would probably clear the tyre with room to spare.
My springs start way closer to the top mount.
View attachment 95736View attachment 95737View attachment 95738

I wonder if it takes place of the ' spacer spring" that takes up the space between the spring n strut?

 

[bnight]

The silver cup is an adapter to fit OEM style top mounts.

 

[GAR944]

Found a better picture, this distance isn't your friend in this case. It is probably a combination of these 2 components together with spring length that has brought about this issue. They are chewing up valuable distance.

 

[GAR944]

The silver cup is an adapter to fit OEM style top mounts.

So next thought is, @JP X isn't using a factory top mount. Is the step in the Ground Control camber plate meant for a 2.5' spring.
If so then this becomes an easy fix. Remove the adapter and wind up the spring platform the equivalent height.

 

[JP X]

So next thought is, @JP X isn't using a factory top mount. Is the step in the Ground Control camber plate meant for a 2.5' spring.
If so then this becomes an easy fix. Remove the adapter and wind up the spring platform the equivalent height.

View attachment 95777

I'll take a look at that, thanks guys!

 

[blacksheep-1]

What if you flipped those cups over?

 

[mavisky]

It is next to the tire. Are other coil-overs not the same?

View attachment 95652

I think people are onto something with the fact that the spacer is putting your tire next to your spring, but looking at that top strut bolt it almost looks like that bolt is moved as far inward as it can go. With the Ground Control top hats it looks like you've maxed them out and the only way to add more camber is to adjust the actual strut mounting bolts in teh slot, but is there more room to adjust?

 

[bauern]

Why would adjusting the camber at the strut tower reduce (or increase) the clearance between the spring and tire? The entire system, strut, spindle and tire move as one unit. A camber bolt on the other hand will effect the clearance.

 

[mavisky]

Why would adjusting the camber at the strut tower reduce (or increase) the clearance between the spring and tire? The entire system, strut, spindle and tire move as one unit. A camber bolt on the other hand will effect the clearance.

It won't, but his front struts have slotted upper holes it appears and the shop may have to reduce camber at the hub to increase clearance thereby reducing the amount of adjustment possible at the strut tower.

 

[bauern]

It won't, but his front struts have slotted upper holes it appears and the shop may have to reduce camber at the hub to increase clearance thereby reducing the amount of adjustment possible at the strut tower.

Thanks, need to work on my reading comprehension.

 

[modernbeat]

I don't like to toot my own horn, but with the Vorshlag camber plates I designed, and collaborated with Ohlins for the S550 fitment, have more inboard range and are a direct fit to the Ohlins spring without using the thick adapter that forces the spring to bend.
These easily got to -3.5 degrees on our 2018 test mule.

Ohlins Install S550 Mustang GT - vorshlag

Step by step instructions showing an Ohlins R&T coilover kit being installed onto a 2018 Mustang GT. We included our optional Vorshlag rear shock mounts and camber plates on the front.

vorshlag.smugmug.com

 

[saleen367]

I am personally not a fan of the GC camber plates and don't know anyone running them with a track setup. Vorshlag is premium hardware.