Which oil to use for track days for 2011 Mustang GT?

Discussion in 'Boss 302 and S197 Technical Forum' started by Creedog, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. 302BOB

    302BOB TMO Addict

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    Last summer, my lawn mower was a little low on oil and all I had on hand was some 5W-50 to add. After I mowed the lawn, it was afraid to grow back.....:p..BTW...Good write up BT
     
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  2. gripdriver

    gripdriver TMO Race

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    I support Driven Racing Oil.

    I use the FR50 5w-50 they make for the ford coyote engine.
     
  3. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    OP, you have a Gen 1 Coyote, which in track pack form Ford specifies 5W50. The only difference between you engine and a track pack car is you don’t have an oil cooler. Ford Performance also recommends 5W50 for all of the coyote aluminator engines.

    I would run 5W50 in a tracked Gen 2. But, I am not going to get into a debate about it. The biggest reason 5W20 is normally specified is fuel economy.
     
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  4. Creedog

    Creedog TMO Intermediate

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    Ok spoke to a rep at Ford Performance. Did not really provide a very precise answer on which to use as far as my view. I was looking for a clear black and white reply and got grey..? 5W 50 would be “OK” to use for track days but he would not recommend using it for any street driving at all! There are major differences between 2012 Boss 302 and my 2011 GT and he mentioned those as a concern. It is anyone’s choice what they would want to put into their car obviously, and what they feel more comfortable using. I have gone with 5W 20 which is on my oil cap. I may go to 5W 50 once summer temps come around but it is still in the 50-60’s here in Atl area.
     
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  5. BigTaco

    BigTaco TMO Addict

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    Go with the FR20 and rest assured. Even in the heat, your engine will be very well protected and phasers and calibration will be optimal.
     
  6. k98dave

    k98dave TMO Addict

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    Stick with the 5w20 for standard GT. The 5w50 was originally developed for the Ford GT then GT500 & then Boss. All the other 5.0 (car & truck) were 5w20. I believe the VVT is set up for that weight oil. Also Boss 302 (Road Runner engine) does not have piston oil cooling squirt's. That was the only change to the basic block from standard 5.0
     
  7. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    That's not true. Almost every part number is different in the Boss engine compared to the early GT engines, even if just considering the short block. Almost nothing is the same if you are talking about the complete crate engines.
     
  8. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    Good read about the Boss engine changes here:
    http://www.mustangandfords.com/car-reviews/m5lp-1108-2011-ford-mustang-302/

    Squirters are a BIG reason IMO to use 5W-50 at the track, even if you're respecting the lower 7,000 rpm limit.

    At high RPM and under track use, I firmly believe that phasers will not have any issues getting to or holding full advance or any position commanded by the specific calibration.
     
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  9. JAJ

    JAJ TMO Addict

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    The TIVCT issue with viscosity is in the ECU algorithm that predicts the position of the cams. The cam phasers move faster or slower (from one cam timing setting to another) depending on the oil viscosity, which is a function of base viscosity and temperature.

    Nobody has ever reported engine problems because this table was calibrated for a different viscosity than they are actually using. It may have an impact on emissions but there's no evidence that it affects performance.

    As for viscosity choices, a 5w50 at 300F is about the same viscosity as a 5w20 at 250F.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  10. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    I think/view it as more of a commanded position that is monitored for via the cam position sensors. The calibration has a tested 'expectation' for the time to reach said position and will open or close channels to the phaser based on the sensed position. Cam Torque Activation causes the change as the phaser allows and should have more than enough energy above idle to move to whatever position commanded within the expected time frame, which could be an insignificant bit longer.

    Startup idle emissions are a much more likely condition to be affected by the change. Mine doesn't throw any codes, and passed my first CA emissions test a few months ago. I had 5W-50 with one track day on it at the time of the test. Good enough for me.
     
  11. k98dave

    k98dave TMO Addict

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    I was talking about just the bare block, not the rest of the internals. So yes its true
     
  12. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $665,833 Moderator

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    The bare block doesn't have either the squirters or the plugs. I was just guessing what you meant by 'basic block'.

    Either way, having the squirters in the engine is a good reason to use 5W-50 on track. The OP has the Boss cooler and an upgraded radiator and is effectively running similar to the Gen 1 track pack, aside from the calibration...for which he's running an aftermarket tune.

    Pretty sure if you asked most tuners to calibrate for 5W-50 on a 5W-20 base tune, they would have this look on the other end of the phone: o_O ...regardless of how they'd answer you.
     
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  13. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    Grant 302 mentioned the Cam Torque Activation used in the coyote and other 5.0L motors and its important to understand that it does not work the same as most other VVTs when advancing and retarding the camshaft.

    Most systems use oil pressure to advance the camshaft. These systems require high oil pressure controlled via a solenoid. The oil pressure itself is what is used to drive the cam phasers and change cam timing.

    The BorgWarner CTA used in our engines do not require high oil pressure to operate correctly. This is because oil pressure is not used to vary cam timing. The CTA uses energy from the valve train actuation and camshaft rotation to change cam timing. The oil is used to control which direction the cam can move, but does not move the cam itself. Think of a series of hydrostatic locks that are used to keep the cam from moving one direction or another.
     
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  14. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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  15. Mxkon

    Mxkon TMO Intermediate

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    I wish this thread had been around when I was trying to debate between 5w20 and 5w50 in my 2013 non-pp GT car for HPDEs.

    For what it is worth to anyone reading this far, to my 2013 Base-GT, I have added a 25-row Mocal (basically same as Setrab) oil cooler and always run 5w50 on the track (5w20 on street), and have had no issues with performance, (knock on wood) for the last 6 days @ VIR, shifting a little above 7,000 RPM
     
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  16. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    Please don’t feel like I am trying to argue. This is how almost all VVTs and VCTs work. But, I posted the information on the BorgWarner CTA because oil pressure and viscosity have almost no impact on how our cam phasers work. When you factor in high oil temps on track, which means thinner oil and lower pressure, there is no impact. Because of this, I personally would want a thicker oil wedge on my bearing surfaces provided by the 5W50. Your less likely to get bearing scuffing.
     
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  17. JAJ

    JAJ TMO Addict

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    You're not arguing, as far as I can tell! Your post on how the phasers work was very interesting. My post was about how viscosity affects the speed that the phasers respond, and if you look at the video, you can see that oil has to move through some channels as the cams move. Thicker oil will take a few milliseconds longer. As I said, it might affect emissions but it doesn't affect performance.
     
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  18. 2012-Boss

    2012-Boss TMO Addict

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    I think that is fair. I certainly would be a lot more concerned about cam timing and it’s relation to oil pressure, viscosity, and temperature with a more typical VCT.
     
  19. stuntman

    stuntman TMO Advanced

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    Nothing wrong with 5W50 other than needing a more diligent warmup .I personally have had great results with M1 0W40.
     
  20. ace72ace

    ace72ace Zaino, I put that $hit on everything

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    I've yet to track my Boss, but have used Amsoil 5w-50 since learning the Royal Purple I bought at Pep Boys on sale was just 'synthetic' (hydrocracked) versus 'full synthetic'. Test results were top notch. FWIW Ford Racing was using Lucas Oil (no idea of the viscosity) at the Track Attack event at Miller Motorsports Park in Utah when I went in 2013.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018

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