Yet Another Tire Thread. Firestone, Ohtsu, Michelin

[johnk39]

Hi all!

I haven't really been active since I registered due to work and some other reasons. But I have a 23' GT with MT82 and Active Exhaust, fully stock as of now.(Love those 235 Pirellis)

I will try to keep it short as these questions were probably asked a thousand times. But here it is; this car is my daily driver, I am a beginner and will try to get into HPDE. So not a ton of track action/racing for a while.

I am getting SVE R357's 19x10 Square Setup, 285-35-19 tires.

I wish I could afford Michelins or Contis but I basically have 2 options within my reach:

Ohtsu FP8000 or Firestone Firehawk Indy 500(bit of a stretch for me)

Now, as I am a beginner and won't be trying to set lap records for the foreseeble future, is it OK to start with something like Ohtsu and maybe get some dedicated Track tires as I progress?

Or,

Should I get something a little bit better like Firehawk Indy 500's and maybe upgrade in the future?

I would appreciate your thoughts and all the valuable input.

Thanks so much,

John

 

[EF1]

I would say save your money for now and run it stock. The stock set up is fine if you are new to track driving. Tires are the most important upgrade since it is the only part of the car that actually contacts the track. Learn to drive with what you have as long as it is safe. Save your money and invest in good rubber when you can outdrive the stock rubber.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

And if you have not already gotten the SVEs, save also and get a set of Apex wheels ----- they just got off a huge sale but look for group buys.

If you decide on tires now , heck, spend a tiny bit more and get a set of Falken RT660s , they will be 2 seconds faster on a road course and would double up fine for autocrossing!!

 

[johnk39]

I would say save your money for now and run it stock. The stock set up is fine if you are new to track driving. Tires are the most important upgrade since it is the only part of the car that actually contacts the track. Learn to drive with what you have as long as it is safe. Save your money and invest in good rubber when you can outdrive the stock rubber.

Thank you for the reply. But I have 2 problems with the stock Pirellis. First, they feel like I am moving on cement blocks that are somehow wobbly in daily driving situations, and to me, it just doesn't feel like I know where they are and what they are doing. Although that wasn't the case even with the stock Pirelli's on my SPWB Challenger, but they were 305's on 20x11's and vastly different tires.

2nd, even with a bit of a spirited driving, they are extremely unpredictable to me. Sometimes the rears just let go on a perfect day, sometimes I can't get them to slide even if I want to. Sometimes it understeer in the exact same corner, exact same conditions, sometimes the rear acts like there is no tomorrow. I can not really imagine how they would do a little bit closer to the limit.

Maybe I just have no clue about driving. But this is the first time I felt extremely uncomfortable trying to push limits of a vehicle I owned.

So automatically, and by reading different forums, I decided it would be wise to get some wider rims and tires to get an idea at least.

 

[johnk39]

And if you have not already gotten the SVEs, save also and get a set of Apex wheels ----- they just got off a huge sale but look for group buys.

If you decide on tires now , heck, spend a tiny bit more and get a set of Falken RT660s , they will be 2 seconds faster on a road course and would double up fine for autocrossing!!

Bill, please excuse my ignorance on this issue, but what would make Apex's better than SVE's?

SVE's were on discount and I got them with Ohtsu's but only 3 of them arrived. Also the tires were 2,5 years old. I have talked to LMR and they agreed to send me a new set with fresh tires and take these back.

However, I wasn't sure if I should push my finances a bit more and get Firestones instead.

A set of Apex EC7's and Michelins are about $3,300 as of now. So even though I know and understand that, they are the way to go, there is no way on earth I can afford those unless I hit the jackpot.

R357's with Ohtsu's, TPMS, Lug Nuts, mounted and balanced are about $1800 and switching to Firestones would add another $400-ish.

So that is basically the situation I am in right now.

 

[Mad Hatter]

To be honest, when your starting out it does not really matter. They are consumables and you will be lucky to get 5 or 6 track days out of them.... Though I did kill my stock Pirelli rim savers in one hectic track school day.

Just get what fits your budget and lasts longer, then work your way up to sticker rubber as you improve your skills. I do have a set of the Firestones on a Alfa hobby car.. things last for ever and are not that bad.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Lots on my mustang friends have these wheels on their cars. Cheap and fine for HPDE.

www.lmr.com

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Since you have already purchased it is good you got the SVEs squared, but do opt up for the Flamingrocks! Once you burn them up there are some good choices that are reasonable. Your issues, though are why I often recommend folks get ahold to Tirerack ( TMO site sponsor and link ) and ask for Luke Pavlik ( ext. 4362 ) so you don't get stuck with a bunch of old outdated rubber. Have fun and when you need better rubber in the coming years check with TMO and Luke --- have fun and glad you found us.

PS - completely agree , stock Pee-rellis are the condom wrapped tires for lack of feel!

 

[EF1]

Thank you for the reply. But I have 2 problems with the stock Pirellis. First, they feel like I am moving on cement blocks that are somehow wobbly in daily driving situations, and to me, it just doesn't feel like I know where they are and what they are doing. Although that wasn't the case even with the stock Pirelli's on my SPWB Challenger, but they were 305's on 20x11's and vastly different tires.

2nd, even with a bit of a spirited driving, they are extremely unpredictable to me. Sometimes the rears just let go on a perfect day, sometimes I can't get them to slide even if I want to. Sometimes it understeer in the exact same corner, exact same conditions, sometimes the rear acts like there is no tomorrow. I can not really imagine how they would do a little bit closer to the limit.

Maybe I just have no clue about driving. But this is the first time I felt extremely uncomfortable trying to push limits of a vehicle I owned.

So automatically, and by reading different forums, I decided it would be wise to get some wider rims and tires to get an idea at least.

Remember, I said run what you have as long as it is safe. I do not know how a tire would make a car feel wobbly unless it has a broken belt or is out of balance. Make sure everything is tight and the wheel bearings are good. Given your description of handling and feel I would not drive them on the street let alone on the track. I do not have any meaningful feedback on the SVE's or Ohtsu's since I have not run either. The wheel size is a good choice for the size tire you plan to run and should be lighter than the oem wheel. I run the same same size Apex wheel with either 275 or 285 wide tires.

Safety is the first priority on track. If you take something that is not safe on track you not only place yourself in jeopardy, but everyone on track.

 

[johnk39]

Remember, I said run what you have as long as it is safe. I do not know how a tire would make a car feel wobbly unless it has a broken belt or is out of balance. Make sure everything is tight and the wheel bearings are good. Given your description of handling and feel I would not drive them on the street let alone on the track. I do not have any meaningful feedback on the SVE's or Ohtsu's since I have not run either. The wheel size is a good choice for the size tire you plan to run and should be lighter than the oem wheel. I run the same same size Apex wheel with either 275 or 285 wide tires.

Safety is the first priority on track. If you take something that is not safe on track you not only place yourself in jeopardy, but everyone on track.

Yes sir. That is why I am trying to carefully plan this all within a tight budget. I wouldn't go out there without getting all this checked and I am 100% comfortable with my vehicle.

285/35/19's sound like a nice happy middle for a while. It seems, they are tall enough for my Mustang to be happy , should have some grip and not too hard to find.

 

[EF1]

Yes sir. That is why I am trying to carefully plan this all within a tight budget. I wouldn't go out there without getting all this checked and I am 100% comfortable with my vehicle.

285/35/19's sound like a nice happy middle for a while. It seems, they are tall enough for my Mustang to be happy , should have some grip and not too hard to find.

Our cars are a bit different. I am running a 2011, so solid rear axle. It came from the factory with 19 x 9" wheels and 255 wide summer only Pirelli's. I ran the stock Pirelli's to start, then went to 275/40/19 Bridgestone S04 Pole Positions. I started rolling the side walls on track and moved up to 19 x 10" wheels with either 275/35/19 or 285/35/19 depending on tire pricing/availability. When looking at tires pay attention to actual measurements not just the stated size. Some 275's actually have a wider tread than some 285's.

 

[johnk39]

Our cars are a bit different. I am running a 2011, so solid rear axle. It came from the factory with 19 x 9" wheels and 255 wide summer only Pirelli's. I ran the stock Pirelli's to start, then went to 275/40/19 Bridgestone S04 Pole Positions. I started rolling the side walls on track and moved up to 19 x 10" wheels with either 275/35/19 or 285/35/19 depending on tire pricing/availability. When looking at tires pay attention to actual measurements not just the stated size. Some 275's actually have a wider tread than some 285's.

That is actually a good point. Those Ohtsu's did not look all that wide to my peepers.

Do you know which website I should check for the most accurate dimensions?

 

[EF1]

That is actually a good point. Those Ohtsu's did not look all that wide to my peepers.

Do you know which website I should check for the most accurate dimensions

Look at Tire Rack.com for dimensions. They give you measurements when mounted on a specific width wheel. Measurements may differ if you mount them on a different size wheel, but they are generally pretty close.

 

[johnk39]

Look at Tire Rack.com for dimensions. They give you measurements when mounted on a specific width wheel. Measurements may differ if you mount them on a different size wheel, but they are generally pretty close.

I checked Simpletire and Tirerack. They both show Ohtsu has 11.1" Section Width while Firestone has 11.42" on Simpletire and 11.4" on Tirerack.

I am feeling more and more like I should push it a little more and get the Firestones.

 

[EF1]

Sectional width and tread width are different. I pay more attention to actual tread width since it is what touches the ground.

 

[johnk39]

Sectional width and tread width are different. I pay more attention to actual tread width since it is what touches the ground.

Yes that's correct. However I can't find that data for some tires. Michelin PS4S seems to be little wider than Conti Extreme Contacts and Firestones but no data on Ohtsu. Which is understandable. Who cares they are $120 a tire lol

 

[Bill Pemberton]

If you disliked the Pee-rellis I would imagine the Ohshitzus would be even worse , though likely great for ice skating ,ha!

 

[johnk39]

If you disliked the Pee-rellis I would imagine the Ohshitzus would be even worse , though likely great for ice skating ,ha!

Well I found some people comparing them to Nitto 555 G2's, some liking them better even and I found some people comparing Nitto 555 G2's to Firehawk 500's. So I thought how bad could it be?

But I am also allergic to Pirellis. And factory 235/50/18's look like someone attached lamb legs to a nice horse. So kind of ready to get rid of them.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Well you found us here at TMO , and we will be here later when you are ready for some rock and roll rubber. When some people compare slow tires to other slow tires ,the comparison is they are all ..........slow, ha! The 500s might at least be a more current build and I would go with your gut!

 

[johnk39]

Well you found us here at TMO , and we will be here later when you are ready for some rock and roll rubber. When some people compare slow tires to other slow tires ,the comparison is they are all ..........slow, ha! The 500s might at least be a more current build and I would go with your gut!

Yes sir, I consider myself lucky. I keep reading, there is a lot to learn around here!

I was actually eyeballing the Continental Extreme Contact Force on Trackdaytire.com.

However, I think buy 3 get 1 promotion is no more. Not sure if they are street legal, aand they only have 295/30/19, which I am not sure if it fits, or how it would fit. Like I said, a lot to learn lol.