Hi Folks,

Despite much good advice over the years, I've been flip flopping between a compromised street/track setup on my PP1 2018 Mustang GT and until recently it had been serving me well. However, as of my latest track day, I feel I've outgrown the compromised setup, namely brake and tires. I am now chunking the outer sidewalls of my tires and losing brake pad performance while pushing. I wanted to share my planned upgrades with you all before I pull the trigger and go to my next track day end of April.

Current setup:
Temps: Diff 250F max, A10 trans 200F max, CHT 240-250ish max
DS2500 Pads front/rear
Centric blanks front and rear rotors
MM camber plates with -2.25F and -1.75R camber, 0 Toe
19x10 square LMR SVE SP2 flow formed wheels - 275/40r19 conti ECS02(like Michelin 4S)
GT500/M1 magride dampers
M-5300-W springs(~240F/~850R)

Planned setup:
Temps: Diff 250F max, A10 200F max, CHT 230ish max - replace coolant with 60/40 mix
Carbotech AX6 for street front/rear, swap to Carbotech XP10 front for track.
DBA T3 4000 front slotted and OEM blanks rear rotors
MM camber plates with -3.0F and -2.5R camber, 0 toe.
Extended studs and 25MM spacers up front
19x11 Square LMR SVE SP2 flow formed wheels or LMR SVE DHP1 Forged wheels - 305/30r19 200TW endurance tires like ECF, AD09, Rival+, ETC
GT500/M1 magride dampers
AJ hartman coilover conversion kit - 300F/900R springs
Harrop oil cooler kit - just got my first oil overtemp code at 80F thunderhill 3 mile.
Potentially DSC sport magride controller? Steeda DSC?

I still street drive my car a 3-5K miles a year here in the mediterranean climate SF bay area, and attend 1-2 track days per quarter. I am not fighting for lap times, I just want to drive and push more without having to worry about the tires, brakes, car, etc. I like the way the car feels and drives now, but have nothing else to really compare it to except when I had PP1 staggered setup and OEM magride dampers/springs. Another can of worms is how front/rear spring rates and ride height affects vehicle dynamics, feel and grip - rake vs flat car.

Any suggestions or advised changes for me based on my goals and planned upgrades? Thanks in advance!

Rodpwnz said:

CHT 230ish max - replace coolant with 60/40 mix

Click to expand...

Does that work? A 10° to 20° drop just by adding 10% more water?

Do you have an oil cooler and a differential cooler? (EDIT, just saw you are adding an oil cooler, that is a Setrab unit, and I think the Dark Horse R cars use a larger Setrab unit) the 50-960-7612 part number at Setrab's web site
Basically the highest horsepower rated unit that Setrab offers. It does not show a btu/hr rating, but it has to be higher than the 69,000 btu unit that is the next size smaller.

Rodpwnz said:

MM camber plates with -3.0F and -2.5R camber, 0 toe.

Click to expand...

I don't have much in the way of experience here, and I am merely passing on what somebody more experienced passed on to me. Maybe go slow and make changes with the rear camber over time to see how your car reacts when applying throttle off the corner . . . like try the front change first and leave the rear at -1.75°, then maybe move it to -2° and see, and so on, until you get it where you want in the turn without compromising your ability to apply early throttle, instead of just slamming the wheels to -2.5° and discovering all of a sudden that you can't get on throttle as early as you used to do.

Junkyard Dog said:

Does that work? A 10° to 20° drop just by adding 10% more water?

Click to expand...

(1) Radiator upgrade. Mishimoto's largest radiator for the 2024-2026 models is basically the same size as the Dark Horse factory radiator. I don't know if it fits in the S550, but if you want to bring the CHT down, and the 60/40 thing does not work, then maybe look at a larger radiator for your car.

(2) Drill the fan shroud. Also, use a hole saw to drill a bunch of holes in the fan shroud to let the air through (a lot of Mustang owners do not realize that the fan and shroud are actually a restriction and not helping cooling at any speed above about 35 mph - the fan and shroud are for when you are stuck in traffic).

(3) Get rid of coolant entirely. Also, in the summer, drain the coolant and run straight water with water wetter with distilled water (but never when there is a risk of freezing). It will transfer more heat and your temps will drop by 10°


(1), (2), and (3) together ought to add up to something significant, especially if you also use the oversized oil cooler mentioned above. Each little bit adds up to a more substantial sum.

Junkyard Dog said:

Do you have an oil cooler and a differential cooler? (EDIT, just saw you are adding an oil cooler, that is a Setrab unit, and I think the Dark Horse R cars use a larger Setrab unit, 960 v 660)


I don't have much in the way of experience here, and I am merely passing on what somebody more experienced passed on to me. Maybe go slow and make changes with the rear camber over time to see how your car reacts when applying throttle off the corner . . . like try the front change first and leave the rear at -1.75°, then maybe move it to -2° and see, and so on, until you get it where you want in the turn without compromising your ability to apply early throttle, instead of just slamming the wheels to -2.5° and discovering all of a sudden that you can't get on throttle as early as you used to do.

Click to expand...

Heh - glad you caught the oil cooler down the upgrade list. The 60/40 coolant is just for safety margin on freezing just in case, and to maintain lubrication from coolant.

If I remember correctly, the golden rule for S550 was 0.5 degree delta camber front and rear. That said, I think you're right on the camber settings, and this is why I ask. I'll keep front camber at -3.0(or less if possible?) for 19x11 wheel clearance, and rears at -2.0 for more power on exit.

Do you have an oil cooler and a differential cooler? (EDIT, just saw you are adding an oil cooler, that is a Setrab unit, and I think the Dark Horse R cars use a larger Setrab unit) the 50-960-7612 part number at Setrab's web site
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/2599/3014/files/Engine_Oil_Coolers.pdf?v=1772153475
Basically the highest horsepower rated unit that Setrab offers. It does not show a btu/hr rating, but it has to be higher than the 69,000 btu unit that is the next size smaller.

Junkyard Dog said:

Do you have an oil cooler and a differential cooler? (EDIT, just saw you are adding an oil cooler, that is a Setrab unit, and I think the Dark Horse R cars use a larger Setrab unit) the 50-960-7612 part number at Setrab's web site
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/2599/3014/files/Engine_Oil_Coolers.pdf?v=1772153475
Basically the highest horsepower rated unit that Setrab offers. It does not show a btu/hr rating, but it has to be higher than the 69,000 btu unit that is the next size smaller.

Click to expand...

I have the OEM oil to water cooler, and no Diff cooler. I am only hitting 250F on rear diff at 80F ambient, but I will likely heat wrap my exhaust and switch to 75w-140 amsoil severe gear oil.

The harrop cooler kit is great because it comes with everything you need to install, although I believe the brackets they provide may not fit every mustang the same and could need cutting and drilling adjustments.

Rodpwnz said:

Hi Folks,

Despite much good advice over the years, I've been flip flopping between a compromised street/track setup on my PP1 2018 Mustang GT and until recently it had been serving me well. However, as of my latest track day, I feel I've outgrown the compromised setup, namely brake and tires. I am now chunking the outer sidewalls of my tires and losing brake pad performance while pushing. I wanted to share my planned upgrades with you all before I pull the trigger and go to my next track day end of April.

Current setup:
Temps: Diff 250F max, A10 trans 200F max, CHT 240-250ish max
DS2500 Pads front/rear
Centric blanks front and rear rotors
MM camber plates with -2.25F and -1.75R camber, 0 Toe
19x10 square LMR SVE SP2 flow formed wheels - 275/40r19 conti ECS02(like Michelin 4S)
GT500/M1 magride dampers
M-5300-W springs(~240F/~850R)

Planned setup:
Temps: Diff 250F max, A10 200F max, CHT 230ish max - replace coolant with 60/40 mix
Carbotech AX6 for street front/rear, swap to Carbotech XP10 front for track.
DBA T3 4000 front slotted and OEM blanks rear rotors
MM camber plates with -3.0F and -2.5R camber, 0 toe.
Extended studs and 25MM spacers up front
19x11 Square LMR SVE SP2 flow formed wheels or LMR SVE DHP1 Forged wheels - 305/30r19 200TW endurance tires like ECF, AD09, Rival+, ETC
GT500/M1 magride dampers
AJ hartman coilover conversion kit - 300F/900R springs
Harrop oil cooler kit - just got my first oil overtemp code at 80F thunderhill 3 mile.
Potentially DSC sport magride controller? Steeda DSC?

I still street drive my car a 3-5K miles a year here in the mediterranean climate SF bay area, and attend 1-2 track days per quarter. I am not fighting for lap times, I just want to drive and push more without having to worry about the tires, brakes, car, etc. I like the way the car feels and drives now, but have nothing else to really compare it to except when I had PP1 staggered setup and OEM magride dampers/springs. Another can of worms is how front/rear spring rates and ride height affects vehicle dynamics, feel and grip - rake vs flat car.

Any suggestions or advised changes for me based on my goals and planned upgrades? Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

I 100% advise to get AJ"s kit. Go with 450 front spring (stiffest it will accommodate). It really helps the front of the car to have a stiffer platform. It's a big deal and unlike what a book would tell you, it does not increase understeer. I believe this is because of better camber control.

I'm agnostic on the rear, anywhere between 500 & 1200 seems to have potential.

TeeLew said:

I 100% advise to get AJ"s kit. Go with 450 front spring (stiffest it will accommodate). It really helps the front of the car to have a stiffer platform. It's a big deal and unlike what a book would tell you, it does not increase understeer. I believe this is because of better camber control.

I'm agnostic on the rear, anywhere between 500 & 1200 seems to have potential.

Click to expand...

I have AJ's kit ready to install - and I currently have compatible 400 front and 1100 rear springs. I guess I'll keep the 400 front and maybe get 800ish rear. Many people I trust have given me wildly different advice regarding front and rear spring rates.

What are your thoughts on vehicle rake vs flat for handling dynamics? My understanding is that more rake, means earlier/easier turn in, less rear grip and easier slip angle. With current 250F + 850R, the car still feels a bit sluggish/wobbly up front.

I am also considering a DSC controller...

Found your picture of your tyre in another post and believe it is rather relevant to this one.

Rodpwnz said:

With current 250F + 850R, the car still feels a bit sluggish/wobbly up front.

Click to expand...

I'm going to take a guess and possibly offend so please take this as intended.
My reading is you are not picking up that the front end has lost grip and are dialing in a bit more lock and washing off speed till it holds the line you are after all the way to the apex where you can start winding off lock and bring it out of the chronic understeer.
Essentially coming in hot and throwing the car in rather than getting it stopped more in a straight line to a point where you have dropped enough speed that the tyre has a chance to work to its limit. Now this is where the stockish setup comes into play. Big heavy car and soft springs, stock sway bars and inadequate dampers for what you are now doing means a lot of body movement and weight transfer in all directions. Mine did the same with 280F springs. It would stand on its nose. See below pic with wobbly red lines. I have the scuff marks on the inner liners as proof. The difference being was i could run -4 degrees on the front and had bigger sway bars so wouldn't roll the car over and loose significant camber.


The "wobbly up front" i believe is the sidewall flexing back and forwards as you push the tyre sideways essentially through the first part of the corner.
Now if we look at the diagonal blue lines on the outer edge of the tyre we can see trace lines as to how the rubber has been pushed, the arrow shows the direction the force would have been for those lines to form. A rather severe angle to the rotation of the tyre. You are dragging the whole area between the 2 parallel red lines.

Bringing google into the equation

So if we compare the 8-12 degrees to your lines that look way closer to 45 then the optimal range has definitely been exceeded and as per the last line you have lost grip.
The 2 green lines show that the deformation continues onto the next rubber strip as it shows similar pattern on the very edge. Past that we see lines that are more favorable in terms of slip angle.

Now the good news, you aren't the first to do this, i could blue the outer and first groove faster than anyone, didn't tear them as i had a stiffly sprung light car but they were definitely wavy.
Essentially its a minor thing and easily corrected, part of which is your upgrades that should allow you to feel what is happening much better.

Rodpwnz said:

I have AJ's kit ready to install - and I currently have compatible 400 front and 1100 rear springs. I guess I'll keep the 400 front and maybe get 800ish rear. Many people I trust have given me wildly different advice regarding front and rear spring rates.

Click to expand...

TeeLew said:

I 100% advise to get AJ"s kit. Go with 450 front spring (stiffest it will accommodate). It really helps the front of the car to have a stiffer platform. It's a big deal and unlike what a book would tell you, it does not increase understeer. I believe this is because of better camber control.

I'm agnostic on the rear, anywhere between 500 & 1200 seems to have potential.

Click to expand...

TeeLew said:

The wheel-to-spring motion ratio is 0.52.

Spring rate @ wheel= spring rate * mr^2

It's a lot closer to 1/4 the rate, not 1/2.

Click to expand...

What does all this mean, listen to @TeeLew . But in your case this upgrade will make the most feeling change in the car.
You have an 850 rear spring, try that as it is currently in the car. Point being as per the table, the effective wheel rate has very little change where you mention getting an 800ish rear. Assuming that it works with the other parts.
This upgrade at the front will help stand the car up and help stop that tyre rolling under as easily maintaining more of your camber.
Up the camber as you have suggested, grab as much as you can, it probably won't be much more that 3 anyway. I have a thing for toe out on the front so when it turns it bites. At zero toe with rubber bushings i believe you will have a slight toe out under load so why not add a tiny bit more. To much and you can destroy inside edges as you are effectively doing the same thing to the inside while driving as is happening to you outside edge currently.
The only thing i see really missing in the suspension part is sway bars as a relatively cheap upgrade. Obviously can start on the stock ones and see how the car behaves first with the other upgrades.

Oil cooler should help take some load off the cooling system which is a bonus.

The diff is possibly the weak spot as you aren't to far away from its trigger point where i believe (don't take as gospel) that it starts pulling timing @270F before hitting limp mode @ 300F.
Simple & cost effective solution in article below, chuck a portable fan on it between sessions to get the heat out as it tends to heat soak and get worse later in the day as it won't cool naturally to bring the starting temps down in later sessions.

Biggest other concern would be the auto. Search for @flyhalf for his mods when it comes to keeping an auto happy. He pushes one harder than anyone and knows what will go wrong and what to do to keep that at bay.
Just went past you build sheet and you have addressed some of this, good move.
The faster you get the more load you will start to put on all the other systems. I see water cooling mods in your future, they need more airflow or capacity to delay the inevitable.

Rodpwnz said:

Planned setup:
Temps: Diff 250F max, A10 200F max, CHT 230ish max - replace coolant with 60/40 mix
Carbotech AX6 for street front/rear, swap to Carbotech XP10 front for track.

Click to expand...

I go through most brake pads setups all the way to Gloc R18/R12 front/rear and 2 piece rotors. Was constantly fighting the ABS Ice mode (OEM ABS module intervene once you are past 1.2G of braking). So counter to popular understanding I actually measured 180-120 km/h brake times with the different setups get that data out of my data logger. What was painfully obvious every time I moved up in compounds the braking times increased (table in my build thread). So late last season I found a set of OEM rear pads (DS2500) in the garage and bought a set of Front DSUno pads. My car improved braking so much that I actually lost 0.5 seconds in the hard braking at my local track for turn 1, just because I over brake the car by 10 km/h. This is the only combo that works reasonably well.

Rodpwnz said:

DBA T3 4000 front slotted and OEM blanks rear rotors

Click to expand...

I use 2 piece rotors from Unitesta but to be fair if I had a do over I would have go for Girodisk or just blank OEM rotors they work so good and handle the temps great.

Rodpwnz said:

MM camber plates with -3.0F and -2.5R camber, 0 toe.
Extended studs and 25MM spacers up front
19x11 Square LMR SVE SP2 flow formed wheels or LMR SVE DHP1 Forged wheels - 305/30r19 200TW endurance tires like ECF, AD09, Rival+, ETC
GT500/M1 magride dampers
AJ hartman coilover conversion kit - 300F/900R springs

Click to expand...

300F springs will be too low in rate I'm on 515 lbs with Ohlins and this still is too soft but it's the bare minimum you need as a frond spring rate so look into higher rate front springs. I run them with 800 lbs rear in the divorced spring location and I sometimes want a bit more at the rear but I don't have a problem to put power down on exit. So the 900 rear is ok just get higher rate front. That combo is ok for the street as well as Ohlins are great in controlling the car.

I hope that helps.

Rodpwnz said:

I have AJ's kit ready to install - and I currently have compatible 400 front and 1100 rear springs. I guess I'll keep the 400 front and maybe get 800ish rear. Many people I trust have given me wildly different advice regarding front and rear spring rates.

What are your thoughts on vehicle rake vs flat for handling dynamics? My understanding is that more rake, means earlier/easier turn in, less rear grip and easier slip angle. With current 250F + 850R, the car still feels a bit sluggish/wobbly up front.

I am also considering a DSC controller...

Click to expand...

The rear spring choice is going to be a product of how you drive. The more you ask of the rear, the less spring rate you'll want. Tracks where you have a lot of traction corners may want a 700# rear. Tracks with a lot of long-duration, banked corners, you might want the 1100#. I honestly feel like that range covers the normal spread. I feel it's common for people to over-spring the rear to cure understeer and mostly just end up hurting traction. I've run from 500 to 950 on my car. The 500 is great on the street. It would be my "Rain race" choice. I didn't feel the car have much real balance shift between 750-850-950. On the stiffer spring, the rear bounces around a lot over bumps and it hurts traction. Anything below 750 starts giving a fair bit of squat on throttle. If you don't like the car moving around a little, keep it over 700# or so. The soft springs give great traction.

I know a lot of people are in the 1200#+ range, though, and they make it work. There are a million ways to get a balance in the car. This is "a" path, not "the" path to get there.

The DSC is a mixed bag. If you get one, I can help you with a map. I've been fairly far down that road. If you aren't really competing and aren't married to them, I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. I wish I could say otherwise. The bigger deal is running the GT500 dampers. If you decide you want to actually compete in Time Attack or something, then the move is to get some sort of 'real' damper package, Ohlins is probably the easiest 'Easy Button', but there are several good options. At the end of the day, the Magneride dampers are street car dampers. They just don't have the architecture to respond like a proper racing damper (and I wouldn't say the Ohlins are full racing dampers, but close enough to make the point).

With the 400# front spring on AJ's kit, you'll be right back to stock ride height on the front, which is fine. On the rear, run it as low as you can. One of the first problems the DH race cars had was burning cv boots from running the rear so low. Watch for that. Lowering the rear gives a lot better rear stability on corner entry, which translates through the entire corner. If you have an understeer you just can't fix, then raise the rear. Until then, keep it low, but make sure you have sufficient suspension travel.

bnight said:

I go through most brake pads setups all the way to Gloc R18/R12 front/rear and 2 piece rotors. Was constantly fighting the ABS Ice mode (OEM ABS module intervene once you are past 1.2G of braking). So counter to popular understanding I actually measured 180-120 km/h brake times with the different setups get that data out of my data logger. What was painfully obvious every time I moved up in compounds the braking times increased (table in my build thread). So late last season I found a set of OEM rear pads (DS2500) in the garage and bought a set of Front DSUno pads. My car improved braking so much that I actually lost 0.5 seconds in the hard braking at my local track for turn 1, just because I over brake the car by 10 km/h. This is the only combo that works reasonably well.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I wonder why they would make an artificial threshold like that? I've been in exactly the same situation with dumbing down pads to improve performance on a different type of car.

TeeLew said:

Interesting. I wonder why they would make an artificial threshold like that? I've been in exactly the same situation with dumbing down pads to improve performance on a different type of car.

Click to expand...

I think this is just the Street calibration for the street cars. Ford Performance sell a bunch of track specific ABS's. Terry Fair put one on Trigger you can read more about it here:


Which triggered an Ah moment for me that the ABS actually reads from rear brake pads so decided to get back to the OEM rears and the whole brakes story in my thread you can read here:


The final piece of the puzzle I finally installed this Monday a new Brakes Master and Brakes Booster finally I'm back to a rock solid brakes pedal and looking forward to the next time on track to see the new brake times.

bnight said:

I go through most brake pads setups all the way to Gloc R18/R12 front/rear and 2 piece rotors. Was constantly fighting the ABS Ice mode (OEM ABS module intervene once you are past 1.2G of braking). So counter to popular understanding I actually measured 180-120 km/h brake times with the different setups get that data out of my data logger. What was painfully obvious every time I moved up in compounds the braking times increased (table in my build thread). So late last season I found a set of OEM rear pads (DS2500) in the garage and bought a set of Front DSUno pads. My car improved braking so much that I actually lost 0.5 seconds in the hard braking at my local track for turn 1, just because I over brake the car by 10 km/h. This is the only combo that works reasonably well.

I use 2 piece rotors from Unitesta but to be fair if I had a do over I would have go for Girodisk or just blank OEM rotors they work so good and handle the temps great.

300F springs will be too low in rate I'm on 515 lbs with Ohlins and this still is too soft but it's the bare minimum you need as a frond spring rate so look into higher rate front springs. I run them with 800 lbs rear in the divorced spring location and I sometimes want a bit more at the rear but I don't have a problem to put power down on exit. So the 900 rear is ok just get higher rate front. That combo is ok for the street as well as Ohlins are great in controlling the car.

I hope that helps.

Click to expand...

TeeLew said:

Interesting. I wonder why they would make an artificial threshold like that? I've been in exactly the same situation with dumbing down pads to improve performance on a different type of car.

Click to expand...

The reason for the artificial threshold is that the ECU is programmed to see such rapid wheel deceleration as slipping.

It is not the 1.2G that matters, but the very swift reduction in wheel speed. If the tire was slipping, the wheel speed would be reduced quickly, too.

If you take your foot off the pedal and try again, the "ice mode" feeling should be gone, but if you braked late and hard you may not have time for that.

The ECU ought to learn that you are driving in a high grip situation, but I do not honestly know if it works like that. Ford is not building Mustang braking safety systems for Road Atlanta. It is building them for the street in the rain and ice and snow, to keep your elderly, widowed mother from crashing her car because she can't steer when a few flakes of snow hit the asphalt and she tries to slow down.

I still remember my mother calling me and telling me her brakes were "frozen" due to the snow and ice in the 1990s, the first time she had ever had ABS activate on her Cadillac. I was very confused at first until I realized the symptoms of her cold, frozen brakes being described was just the ABS kicking on. It was hard to sound respectful towards my mother as I tried to tell her what had happened, because I kept laughing as I explained that the brakes were supposed to behave that way when a little snow hit the roadway.

Avoiding a quick "stab" at the brakes might help, rolling the pressure on just a little more gradually.

It looks like they are running the S197 Ford Performance controller? I'm surprised that works on a S550. I wonder how many hoops they had to jump through for that?

I have a controller off a GT500 CFTP. I don't know if the programming is any different, but I figured if any were, it'd be that one.

I installed it a long time ago, but didn't have the right version of Forscan, so I couldn't get it to play. I ended up pulling it off and it's still in my garage, somewhere.

I feel like the ABS is always trying to straighten the car when trail braking. I haven't found brake zone problems as much as its influence on corner entry. My guess is that at some G threshold, it just assumes you're crashing. Airbags work best head-on, so I think that's what it's trying to make happen. It's annoying, because you can't really fight it.

TeeLew said:

It looks like they are running the S197 Ford Performance controller? I'm surprised that works on a S550. I wonder how many hoops they had to jump through for that?

I have a controller off a GT500 CFTP. I don't know if the programming is any different, but I figured if any were, it'd be that one.

I installed it a long time ago, but didn't have the right version of Forscan, so I couldn't get it to play. I ended up pulling it off and it's still in my garage, somewhere.

I feel like the ABS is always trying to straighten the car when trail braking. I haven't found brake zone problems as much as its influence on corner entry. My guess is that at some G threshold, it just assumes you're crashing. Airbags work best head-on, so I think that's what it's trying to make happen. It's annoying, because you can't really fight it.

Click to expand...

They are running after market ECU I think holly because the car has an LS in it.

bnight said:

They are running after market ECU I think holly because the car has an LS in it.

Click to expand...

Good point.

GAR944 said:

Found your picture of your tyre in another post and believe it is rather relevant to this one.

I'm going to take a guess and possibly offend so please take this as intended.
My reading is you are not picking up that the front end has lost grip and are dialing in a bit more lock and washing off speed till it holds the line you are after all the way to the apex where you can start winding off lock and bring it out of the chronic understeer.
Essentially coming in hot and throwing the car in rather than getting it stopped more in a straight line to a point where you have dropped enough speed that the tyre has a chance to work to its limit. Now this is where the stockish setup comes into play. Big heavy car and soft springs, stock sway bars and inadequate dampers for what you are now doing means a lot of body movement and weight transfer in all directions. Mine did the same with 280F springs. It would stand on its nose. See below pic with wobbly red lines. I have the scuff marks on the inner liners as proof. The difference being was i could run -4 degrees on the front and had bigger sway bars so wouldn't roll the car over and loose significant camber.

View attachment 109586
The "wobbly up front" i believe is the sidewall flexing back and forwards as you push the tyre sideways essentially through the first part of the corner.
Now if we look at the diagonal blue lines on the outer edge of the tyre we can see trace lines as to how the rubber has been pushed, the arrow shows the direction the force would have been for those lines to form. A rather severe angle to the rotation of the tyre. You are dragging the whole area between the 2 parallel red lines.

Bringing google into the equation
View attachment 109587
So if we compare the 8-12 degrees to your lines that look way closer to 45 then the optimal range has definitely been exceeded and as per the last line you have lost grip.
The 2 green lines show that the deformation continues onto the next rubber strip as it shows similar pattern on the very edge. Past that we see lines that are more favorable in terms of slip angle.
View attachment 109585
Now the good news, you aren't the first to do this, i could blue the outer and first groove faster than anyone, didn't tear them as i had a stiffly sprung light car but they were definitely wavy.
Essentially its a minor thing and easily corrected, part of which is your upgrades that should allow you to feel what is happening much better.




What does all this mean, listen to @TeeLew . But in your case this upgrade will make the most feeling change in the car.

Spring Rate	Motion Ratio Factor	Wheel Rate
800	0.2704	216.32
850	0.2704	229.84
1100	0.2704	297.44

You have an 850 rear spring, try that as it is currently in the car. Point being as per the table, the effective wheel rate has very little change where you mention getting an 800ish rear. Assuming that it works with the other parts.
This upgrade at the front will help stand the car up and help stop that tyre rolling under as easily maintaining more of your camber.
Up the camber as you have suggested, grab as much as you can, it probably won't be much more that 3 anyway. I have a thing for toe out on the front so when it turns it bites. At zero toe with rubber bushings i believe you will have a slight toe out under load so why not add a tiny bit more. To much and you can destroy inside edges as you are effectively doing the same thing to the inside while driving as is happening to you outside edge currently.
The only thing i see really missing in the suspension part is sway bars as a relatively cheap upgrade. Obviously can start on the stock ones and see how the car behaves first with the other upgrades.
View attachment 109588
Oil cooler should help take some load off the cooling system which is a bonus.

The diff is possibly the weak spot as you aren't to far away from its trigger point where i believe (don't take as gospel) that it starts pulling timing @270F before hitting limp mode @ 300F.
Simple & cost effective solution in article below, chuck a portable fan on it between sessions to get the heat out as it tends to heat soak and get worse later in the day as it won't cool naturally to bring the starting temps down in later sessions.

Differnetial Overheating Mostly Kinda Solved 2018GT PP1

Just putting the results of my efforts here. First off, if you're serious about tracking the car then get a cooler. Period. Full tilt boogie makes a kit plenty of people are happy with for 1k, or you can grab the ford performance one for 2200ish, and not have all the fancy rear bumper areo like...

www.mustang6g.com

Biggest other concern would be the auto. Search for @flyhalf for his mods when it comes to keeping an auto happy. He pushes one harder than anyone and knows what will go wrong and what to do to keep that at bay.
Just went past you build sheet and you have addressed some of this, good move.
The faster you get the more load you will start to put on all the other systems. I see water cooling mods in your future, they need more airflow or capacity to delay the inevitable.

Click to expand...

bnight said:

I go through most brake pads setups all the way to Gloc R18/R12 front/rear and 2 piece rotors. Was constantly fighting the ABS Ice mode (OEM ABS module intervene once you are past 1.2G of braking). So counter to popular understanding I actually measured 180-120 km/h brake times with the different setups get that data out of my data logger. What was painfully obvious every time I moved up in compounds the braking times increased (table in my build thread). So late last season I found a set of OEM rear pads (DS2500) in the garage and bought a set of Front DSUno pads. My car improved braking so much that I actually lost 0.5 seconds in the hard braking at my local track for turn 1, just because I over brake the car by 10 km/h. This is the only combo that works reasonably well.

I use 2 piece rotors from Unitesta but to be fair if I had a do over I would have go for Girodisk or just blank OEM rotors they work so good and handle the temps great.

300F springs will be too low in rate I'm on 515 lbs with Ohlins and this still is too soft but it's the bare minimum you need as a frond spring rate so look into higher rate front springs. I run them with 800 lbs rear in the divorced spring location and I sometimes want a bit more at the rear but I don't have a problem to put power down on exit. So the 900 rear is ok just get higher rate front. That combo is ok for the street as well as Ohlins are great in controlling the car.

I hope that helps.

Click to expand...

TeeLew said:

The rear spring choice is going to be a product of how you drive. The more you ask of the rear, the less spring rate you'll want. Tracks where you have a lot of traction corners may want a 700# rear. Tracks with a lot of long-duration, banked corners, you might want the 1100#. I honestly feel like that range covers the normal spread. I feel it's common for people to over-spring the rear to cure understeer and mostly just end up hurting traction. I've run from 500 to 950 on my car. The 500 is great on the street. It would be my "Rain race" choice. I didn't feel the car have much real balance shift between 750-850-950. On the stiffer spring, the rear bounces around a lot over bumps and it hurts traction. Anything below 750 starts giving a fair bit of squat on throttle. If you don't like the car moving around a little, keep it over 700# or so. The soft springs give great traction.

I know a lot of people are in the 1200#+ range, though, and they make it work. There are a million ways to get a balance in the car. This is "a" path, not "the" path to get there.

The DSC is a mixed bag. If you get one, I can help you with a map. I've been fairly far down that road. If you aren't really competing and aren't married to them, I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. I wish I could say otherwise. The bigger deal is running the GT500 dampers. If you decide you want to actually compete in Time Attack or something, then the move is to get some sort of 'real' damper package, Ohlins is probably the easiest 'Easy Button', but there are several good options. At the end of the day, the Magneride dampers are street car dampers. They just don't have the architecture to respond like a proper racing damper (and I wouldn't say the Ohlins are full racing dampers, but close enough to make the point).

With the 400# front spring on AJ's kit, you'll be right back to stock ride height on the front, which is fine. On the rear, run it as low as you can. One of the first problems the DH race cars had was burning cv boots from running the rear so low. Watch for that. Lowering the rear gives a lot better rear stability on corner entry, which translates through the entire corner. If you have an understeer you just can't fix, then raise the rear. Until then, keep it low, but make sure you have sufficient suspension travel.

Click to expand...

Wow - tons of great advice and information in here guys. Thank you! Absolutely no offense taken at all - if anything, I am very appreciative!

Just some updates on my parts list:
1. Got DBA T3 4000 slotted front rotors - this was purely for superficial reasons, I know could have just gotten OEM or Powerstop blanks and saved $100.
2. Got Ferodo DSUNO front pads - VERY expensive...

Although I am addressing each of you individually, the responses below are all part of one message for eveyone reading.

GAR944 - You are probably right about my current approach into a turn, my current setup and how it is affecting my current tires. I think the issue starts with a lack of confidence in braking performance and endurance with the Ferodo DS2500. Once I get these DSUNO pads on, I should be able to slow the car down properly before initiating the turn/corner.

I also plan to try out 19x11 with square 305 200TW tires with -3F, -2R camber update before I make any changes to spring rates, or sway bars - this is to establish a baseline.

I am undecided on which oil cooler for sure, still leaning harrop kit. I want to refill coolant with new 60/40 water to coolant ratio, and potentially add some hood louvers. See how that goes before adding oil cooler. I will try that diff cooler fan solution, with fresh 75w140 amsoil severegear oil too.

I have DIY solved my transmission cooling issues via an internal bypass, custom cooler lines and an external thermostat that starts at 160F instead of OEM 190F. This trans cooling solution keeps me below 200F 10r80 temps at track - I have a thread that details the project. I had been following Alessandro's(Flyhalf) progress with his 10r80 for years and I had concluded that my current setup is the ideal solution for a street/track driven car. 10r80 is not happy at low temps either, so the thermostat keeps it above the minimum, while giving me more breathing room before the maximum. iirc Ale considers140-180F is the sweet spot for 10r80 temps.

Thank you Gar.

Bnight - I was actually looking at GLOC pads, but no where near as aggressive as your R18/R12 lol. As first I wanted RSL29 all around, for street and track but the price was a bit of a turnoff. Then I was thinking of GLOC R12 front and R10 rear, and was pleased at the price/value! But during a long converstation with Sam Strano, he steered me away from those and towards more expensive and higher quality Ferodo pads up front. He runs 3.12, and recommended them, but as a more cautious step, I opted for DSUNO. I already love ferodo pads and the DS2500, and feel they are the ultimate tweener pad for a mostly street driven and novice/intermediate track pad. Sam says run DSUNO front, and EBC blue in rear - says I can run them on street just fine. I'm cool with that, but I also was interested in running DS2500 front and rear for street, and then DSUNO front for track, keep the DS2500 in rear. This way I can again, satiate my OCD of having unified Ferodo pads all around, and also compound compatible front pad swap. I have not yet purchased my rear pads, but intend to very soon... advice would be appreciated if anyone would like to share! I also plan on purchasing these Powerstop EVO rear rotors, at the guidance of Sam again. Thanks for your feedback on springs and pads, Bnight.

TeeLew - You helped me make the upgrade to GT500 magride dampers, and without your help and assurance, I'm not sure I would have bit the bullet. It was a substantial upgrade over OEM PP1 Magride dampers and I am so glad I did it, so thank you.

Regarding rear spring rates, I totally agree. It seems ford over the years reduced rear rates as well, from GT350R and GT350, to mach1 and DH. Rear rates went down on the newer and faster/nimbler(?) mustangs. I also value ride quality since this is still a street driven car, 750-900 is where I would want to land...unless I try the 1100 rear that came with the AJ kit and like it. I have no aero and don't plan to add any(heh we've all said that before).

I am not competing and never plan to with this car, however the DSC still seems promising for me because I am still on OEM PP1 magride tune. I don't have GT350, PP2, Mach1 or FP upgraded magride tuning, and I truthfully don't know how much I am missing out on. I used to feel that I wanted to learn and get into all the settings and tuning for DSC, however as of late, I've been less inclined to tinker. A set and forget solution sounds much more palatable...and just two or three tune files would be perfect to match my car modes. A normal mode for comfort, a sport mode to firm up, and an even stiffer track mode for road course.

I do plan to eventually install AJ hartman kit that I have, use 400 front and keep the 850 in the rear. The AJ kit will also allow me to play with rake, currently the car has 1 inch rake which I believe reduces rear grip and increases oversteer. For superficial OCD reasons, I prefer a flatter look. For performance reasons, Kenny Brown likes a more flat front to rear on S550 platform. I hear you on the lowered rear, how about a lowered car all around and with flat/no rake? I would like to keep the car lowered 0.5-0.75, and I believe this is possible with AJ's provided shims.

If you have any further thoughts for me on DSC, I'm all ears. Thanks again for the advice and feedback.

And thank you for your insight as well Junkyard Dog.


Another question for the forums: If you could get a new 4x set of 305/30r19 Yokohama AD09 for $1100, or a new 4x set of 305/30r19 Kumho V730 for $1500 - which one would you get? To me the AD09 at $1100 seems like too good a value to pass up.

Also, for front DS2500/DSUNO pads, which would be a better match up in the rear - DS2500 or EBC Blue?
BTW - Could someone confirm the OEM PP1 front pads are in fact DS2500s? What are the OEM GT/PP1 rear pads?