What is the total timing in the tune? Assuming 93 octane, but are you running 91?
Sorry I haven't read every post for the specs

steveespo said:

What is the total timing in the tune? Assuming 93 octane, but are you running 91?
Sorry I haven't read every post for the specs

Click to expand...

93 octane, stock tune. Usually get 3 degrees knock at wot. No problems with regular street driving

By process of deduction, it seemed that my only remaining culprit was something to do with the engine. Either my cylinder scoring or maybe problems with the valve seals. Even though I am not willing to replace the short block or cylinder heads over this, I wanted to verify the findings. I did a series of WOT pulls using the different configurations I have available. Here are 3 results using the following configurations: SCT 93 octane tune + 93 octane, SCT 91 octane tune + 93 octane, and SCT 91 octane tune + 93 octane + Lucas octane booster.

I don't have any proper tunes, so I used what I have at hand. The 93 octane tune is a little more aggressive than the stock tune. They both produced 3 degrees of knock, but the SCT 93 tune sustained that knock for a second longer. Using the SCT 91 tune reduced my knock down to 2 degrees, and adding octane booster eliminated my knock!

At first, I thought that this confirmed a minor engine issue, but I went over this with AI, and the AI says that this is incorrect, and that these logs prove that my engine is working as it is supposed to! The AI says, that if this problem were being caused by an internal issue, that the knock would not be affected by an increase in octane (I would think that this would depend on what the internal issue is...). Which I guess would make it indistinguishable from false knock? The AI says that my most likely culprit is bad gas. I don't like this theory, because I've already tried using gas from several different places and get no change in results. Considering the things I've already done to diagnose, a valve seal problem seems less likely at this point. I never see any blue smoke, and my oil consumption is relatively normal except under sustained (road trip) highway driving. So if oil is getting into my combustion chamber, it seems that it only happens under certain conditions. It also seems less likely that it's blowby. I'd think that if it were blowby that my knock would continue up to 7500 RPM and it never does.

I thought about this, and came up with a new theory. Fortunately, this one won't be hard to test. A while back, I noticed that the inside of my intake manifold was caked with oil and so I installed an FRPP oil separator. This seems to be doing a good job, but I've learned that under WOT, the airflow in the crankcase reverses because there is no vacuum to open the PCV valve. In this case, blowby gasses are expelled via the crankcase breather hose. I would imagine that when the airflow switches directions like this that there is momentarily greater pressure inside the crankcase than normal. What if, when the airflow switches direction, a slight buildup of pressure is pushing a puff of crap into my intake? If this was the case, it would explain why my knock always occurs at about the same RPM in my logs, and why it tends to step down and go away after an initial spike, even though the car is still building RPM. If this is the case, all I need is a simple driver's side catch can!

I went ahead and ordered a kit from Radium and am looking forward to some more tests. For the time being, the 91 SCT tune seems like it's the safest so I left that on the car. Let me know if any of you guys disagree with any of the thinking here. I'm no mechanic! Just doing the best I can.

One thing that I think that I can rule out completely though, is false knock. So my noisy transmission is good to go!

Radium driver's side catch can installed. I got this kit because it looks high quality and it's the only one that has a very nice custom bracket to mount it instead of a generic deal that you have to mess around with to use. The filter system seems top quality and I like that it has a system that bypasses the can in case the can fills up. As for the cons -- it's quite expensive. But you get what you pay for... I hope... The driver's side bracket is very cool and seems solid, but it's a tight fit. The bracket rests up against the OEM airbox which made me worry about rattling/false knock, so I put a small piece of dynomat on the side of it. When the can is installed, it makes it much more difficult to remove the breather hose and therefore the intake hose. The short rubber hose that runs from the can to the intake hose is so stiff that I have to remove the AN fitting instead of the OEM quick connect side in order to remove the intake hose.

Took it for a test drive to ensure no problems/noises, etc. and everything looks good. Will show some pictures after I get the passenger side installed and after that it's datalog time again.

As a side note, while I was installing this thing I put a flashlight inside of my intake hose and gave it a thorough inspection for signs of oil. I hadn't noticed any before, but this time I saw it. Streaks of oil stretching out from where the breather hose connects. Light and hard to see. I stuck my finger into the port where the breather hose connects and did get some oil on my finger. Then I flipped the hose upside down to see if any oil had made it into the Helmholtz resonator chamber (the reservoir on the OEM tube) and sure enough there was a tiny bit of oil in there. Just a couple drops. This theory is looking up. But why does my car like to spit oil out of the breather hose? I haven't noticed many other people having this problem... Fingers crossed...

Also, engine ate another 1/2 qt. of oil in the last 1k miles. I have been doing a lot of datalogging though.

Fingers crossed, i know this has been a long saga for you. The Radium stuff always looks great and to me seems like they have put proper though behind their designs.
Coming from a workshop that dealt with a lot of 80's 911's, i remember reading 1 litre per 1000kms was considered normal in the manual.
Given we dealt with a majority of club track cars, oil was always part of the spares for a track day.

@BackInBlack I’m confused, you replied to @steveespo that you’re running a stock tune, but then you posted results of a series of SCT canned tunes? Maybe I missed something but have you ever downloaded and tested a confirmed stock tune? Are you certain the “stock” tune on your SCT tuner is actually stock? Is it possible that your engine knock and fuel trim issues are related to your SCT tunes?

Way back in post #5, you crossed out your comment about using a stock tune, what did you mean by that?

stevbd said:

@BackInBlack I’m confused, you replied to @steveespo that you’re running a stock tune, but then you posted results of a series of SCT canned tunes? Maybe I missed something but have you ever downloaded and tested a confirmed stock tune? Are you certain the “stock” tune on your SCT tuner is actually stock? Is it possible that your engine knock and fuel trim issues are related to your SCT tunes?

Way back in post #5, you crossed out your comment about using a stock tune, what did you mean by that?

Click to expand...

Yeah I do have a stock tune. We loaded it via Ford IDS at build time using the VIN of the donor car. The reason I crossed out that line was because I decided that I shouldn't recommend that people immediately flash a stock tune if building a swap car like mine because you never know what kind of mods the engine might have. Now I'm recommending to keep whatever is in the donor PCM and then back it up before you change it.

In that datalog post, I was running a series of tests to try to prove or rule out false knock. So, more timing, less timing, and octane booster. I did a few more runs than this, including one on the stock tune but the stock tune log was pretty similar to the SCT 93 log so i didn't think it was useful to post. Every tuner I've been to refuses to tune my car which is why the SCT canned tunes are the only ones I have other than stock.

I did compare a series of datalogs a while back between the stock tune and the 93 tune and all of the datapoints look identical aside from the new one about knock at WOT. Personally I think the SCT tunes are probably slightly modified clones of the stock tune. There's little to no performance gains but they do seem pretty safe. My assumption was that the 91 tune would reduce timing a little and I think that was correct. I was able to rule out false knock with these tests.

Currently I'm running on the SCT 91 tune for safety and in preparation for another WOT datalog. If the 91 tune still has knock then there's no need to try the others.

Radium catch cans installed.

Datalog performed. Still have knock at WOT. I had to use oil to assemble the hoses though so I think I'll give it another try later after everything has broken in a little more. But I'm not too hopeful. I think I'm about out of ideas. Thinking about maybe trying a Lund tune and just seeing if they can help me out. I'd be OK with detuning at this point so long as we can get everything running well.

Got around to changing the transmission fluid too. BG Synchro Shift 2 from OPMustang. Nice kit. Large strong pump is worth the extra bucks. Can't tell any difference after changing the fluid though. I thought maybe it'd be a little quieter? But it's not. It does seem to shift a hair smoother. I'll run it for a while and see how it goes.

Update on the BG Syncro Shift II: I hadn't realized that since the rebuild and with the ATF my shifts had become notchy and stiff. I'd gotten used to the fact that I need a firm hand to shift gears smoothly. I didn't have any issues really, which is why I didn't notice it. After putting the BG in there, by comparison my shifts are effortless. I guess this is good for the transmission? Trans is still loud though, looks like I'm stuck with that one. But so far, pleasantly surprised with the BG.

I think I did it. With nothing else left to try, I went back to the bad gas theory. I didn't have much hope because everything I've tried around here has been about the same. Earlier this week I went to a Shell station I haven't tried before and yesterday I dropped a fat log. This is Shell 93 with the SCT 93 canned tune and my new dual Radium catch can setup (which could also be helping). I did have a .5 degree spike at about 5K RPM, but I think tuners will find this acceptable...?

Gonna try getting a Lund tune and see what happens. Still... I wonder why this weird spike in the middle every time?

I noticed something else too... Even though I have the RPM limiter set to the stock 7500, all of the canned SCT tunes let me rev it out to 8K RPM. On the stock tune it cuts off right at 7500. I guess I'll have to set the rev limiter to 7k with the SCT canned tunes?

BnB....I admire your on going battle to try and get things right.........you got more spirit and drive than I will ever Have, that's for sure!!!!!!!!!!!! If and when you get to your "navana"..Enjoy your rewards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BnB,
I've just started my v6 to Coyote swap on my 13' base automatic. I have a full, palletized, running 14' Coyote with an MT82 that I bought from Cleveland Performance.
The v6/automatic is about ready to be pulled and I'm doing the research on what needs to be done to the vehicle prior to installing the V8. I'm getting conflicting information about whether I need to install the full body and cowl harness from the donor 14'. It was my understanding that things like the fuel pump were the same between the two vehicles, but AI says different. Mind you, I'm not leaning on AI for my info, just using it as extra info. AI says I need to swap everything except the fuel tank, which is obviously the same, but again, I'm not sure whether I should believe what I'm reading.
I also found a video that said all I need to do is swap a couple pins in the body harness and I'm fine. Pins 41 and 2 two be exact. There was a link to the YouTube video somewhere on this site.
I'm fine if swapping everything saves me grief and from blowing codes all the time. I'd rather not be in Forescan all the time with this build.
I know that I'm looking at a LOT more work to swap the complete harnesses, but it's not rocket science and I honestly used to do it most days at work anyway. However, my garage isn't air conditioned like my lab used to be. I plan to do it a little at a time anyway.
Can you lend any background information to this type of project based on what you've been through?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

@Firefighter46 well, first -- check out this post: https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/backinblack.20755/post-318183

The fuel pumps are exactly the same, even on the Boss. No need to touch it if you don't want to.

You do not need to swap the body harness. The key portion you mentioned is on page one of my build sheet:
"Move pin 41 of the V6 body harness connector to pin 2. This pin reads the mass airflow sensor. This is the ONLY wiring change necessary if you have the engine and transmission harnesses."

Most of the modules can be reprogrammed, so it's up to you whether you want to swap them or not. The ABS is the only finnicky one that I would say you need to swap (although some people say they've done it successfully -- it didn't work for me). Personally, for modules I'd pick whichever ones look like they're in the best condition and use them. The Forscan reprogramming is easy. I can walk you through it if you need help.

Be careful about listening to AI. It's incredibly useful, but when it's wrong it'll give you bad information with confidence. I always ask it to give me it's sources. When you do that, often you'll find that the AI was getting it's info from an '05-09 coyote swap project or something else that doesn't quite fit.

So -- my swap was a manual to manual, '11-14 to '11-14. So it's about as easy as a swap as you can do I think and a little different than yours. Details are hard to find -- and I think most people kinda do it by trial and error. In my case, I spent months researching and I was able to find one source -- a YouTuber from Croatia who desperately wanted a '11-14 Mustang GT, but couldn't afford one due to the import taxes they have over there. He decided to build one himself piecemeal and documented the process, including the wiring. I took a risk believing this one source, but it turned out to be correct and it worked for me. The video is old and kinda hard to find, but I was able to dig it up: If you have the time, you can watch the series on it and it will give you more information. Since my car is a manual and I have never owned an auto, I wanted to make sure there were no differences and I thought I remembered that this Croatian guy had an automatic -- sure enough he did. So this guy that I used as the roadmap for my swap, did the kind of swap you're trying to do. His videos aren't great, but they cover the most important parts. But -- he's not right about everything. For example -- he says that you need the transceiver from the donor car. This is NOT true. But -- I recommend you check out his video series -- maybe do some more research on your own, come up with a game plan and then you can run it by me and I'll let you know what I think. The essentials of my build are on page one of my build thread there.

It's a long process so I recommend you document your game plan. Personally what I did is I had one that was long form that I used, that was very detailed. Then I also had a short form that was a checklist that I checked off as we got things done. Also recommend that you compression check your new engine -- change the plugs, the belts, maybe the rear main seal while you're there. It'll save you some trouble down the road.

Firefighter46 said:

BnB,
I've just started my v6 to Coyote swap on my 13' base automatic. I have a full, palletized, running 14' Coyote with an MT82 that I bought from Cleveland Performance.
The v6/automatic is about ready to be pulled and I'm doing the research on what needs to be done to the vehicle prior to installing the V8. I'm getting conflicting information about whether I need to install the full body and cowl harness from the donor 14'. It was my understanding that things like the fuel pump were the same between the two vehicles, but AI says different. Mind you, I'm not leaning on AI for my info, just using it as extra info. AI says I need to swap everything except the fuel tank, which is obviously the same, but again, I'm not sure whether I should believe what I'm reading.
I also found a video that said all I need to do is swap a couple pins in the body harness and I'm fine. Pins 41 and 2 two be exact. There was a link to the YouTube video somewhere on this site.
I'm fine if swapping everything saves me grief and from blowing codes all the time. I'd rather not be in Forescan all the time with this build.
I know that I'm looking at a LOT more work to swap the complete harnesses, but it's not rocket science and I honestly used to do it most days at work anyway. However, my garage isn't air conditioned like my lab used to be. I plan to do it a little at a time anyway.
Can you lend any background information to this type of project based on what you've been through?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Click to expand...

Here's a quick how-to video about re-pinning the body harness:

I planned to swap all the modules from the donor vehicle/pallet motor anyway. I figured they were born with that combo, so keep them with it. I also have clockspring and cluster, however only ONE KEY. It starts the pallet now, but I'd honestly like a second key. How screwed am i?? I have programmed keys before on my 09' with Forescan, but I think I had two keys.
I'm glad I reached out, especially about the body harness, cross beam harness AND fuel pump. I'm not looking to do a TON of extra work if I don't have to.
I looked into the body harness connector, the one with pin 41 and 2 and I never found information about the MAF sensor being on those particular pins, so that's why I was questioning the pin swap.
How about radiator? I thought my research showed that the two powerplants use the same radiator, just different hoses, degas bottles and heater lines. Any thoughts?

Firefighter46 said:

I planned to swap all the modules from the donor vehicle/pallet motor anyway. I figured they were born with that combo, so keep them with it. I also have clockspring and cluster, however only ONE KEY. It starts the pallet now, but I'd honestly like a second key. How screwed am i?? I have programmed keys before on my 09' with Forescan, but I think I had two keys.
I'm glad I reached out, especially about the body harness, cross beam harness AND fuel pump. I'm not looking to do a TON of extra work if I don't have to.
I looked into the body harness connector, the one with pin 41 and 2 and I never found information about the MAF sensor being on those particular pins, so that's why I was questioning the pin swap.
How about radiator? I thought my research showed that the two powerplants use the same radiator, just different hoses, degas bottles and heater lines. Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

You don't need the clockspring -- the clocksprings are the same. If you want to wire the steering wheel buttons there's a connector under the steering wheel that needs a pin added. I can provide details if you want to try. 2nd key no problem -- go to the dealer and buy a new FORD key. Have Ford cut it. All you need is two working keys that have different transponder signatures. The need for having two keys comes in the programming aspect. You just need to make sure they fit the lock and are not duplicates of the same key. If you get one from a locksmith, most often it'll be a duplicate and not have a unique transponder signature.

On the radiator, that is correct. The BOSS has a different radiator -- so I had to swap mine. You can Google the part number and then use a website like this to check:
This particular dealer that I found, still lists out of production parts so you can check them to make sure they're right. If it won't come up on a search, get the part number and enter it in, it'll come up.

The coolant reservoir is also the same -- even on the Boss. You'll be surprised how many parts you DON'T need to swap. Hoses I think will be different. Match them up by part number.

So the clock spring won't need swapping?? What links the keys to the vehicle? The cluster?
I'm not sure that my current cluster is different than the one on the pallet. My steering wheel buttons do currently work, I had to do a little work to get them right. My car had been totally apart in the past.

Firefighter46 said:

So the clock spring won't need swapping?? What links the keys to the vehicle? The cluster?
I'm not sure that my current cluster is different than the one on the pallet. My steering wheel buttons do currently work, I had to do a little work to get them right. My car had been totally apart in the past.

Click to expand...

The key has a transponder chip in it with a unique code. That code is read by the transceiver (keyhole) and is verified against the code stored in the cluster.

It doesn't matter which cluster you use as long as it's one that's '11-14 compatible. You can even reuse the V6 cluster.

Firefighter46 said:

How about radiator? I thought my research showed that the two powerplants use the same radiator, just different hoses, degas bottles and heater lines. Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

Why not use an aftermarket radiator? There are much better options for a 2013 than anything Ford installed that will cover any use to which you want to put the car without any risk of overheating. Go a little overkill and never worry about this issue or upgrading the radiator again.

You're speaking my language, but right now I just want to get this combo in the chassis and running. If the radiator I just pulled out will get it running, I'll use it. Upgrades after its functioning.