If you have a square set up and rotate tires for more life, how do you do it?

Right front to left rear, and converse, Left front to right rear, and converse, or something else? Front to rear? Or inspect and maybe do whatever you think best after looking at the tread?

Junkyard Dog said:

Right front to left rear, and converse, Left front to right rear, and converse...

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If you do this each tire will only ever see 2 corners of the car.
I rotate after a full track day and like move the fronts to the opposite rear corner, and move the rears forward on the same side. With your starting point and 3 subsequent rotations, each tire spends time on all 4 corners

My simple approach has two components.

First, with a set of four new tires, consider them as two pairs. One pair starts on the front and the other pair starts on the rear. The two tires in each pair stay together when you're swapping front to rear.

The second component was to put the tire in each pair with the most tread on the side of the car that will be on the outside of the most turns. For instance, a clockwise track has more right turns than left, so the tire with the most rubber goes on the left side of the car. Counterclockwise track - put the most rubber on the right side.

As for front/rear swaps, when one of the pairs had more rubber in total than the other pair, I'd swap the pairs from one axle to the other.

I rotate after each track day or autocross.
I do a standard rotation, crossing the fronts to the rear and the rears go straight forward.

My tires have very even wear, so works for me.

Similar to @JAJ, I basically just move the tire with the most tread to the corner where I expect the most abuse. If on the same dry course, this usually involves swapping in a criss-cross pattern.

Be careful that many tires are directional in the wet. I’ve run directional tires backwards in the dry to even out wear and I’m not aware of any problems doing that but don’t take my word for it. Ideally in all of this I’m shooting for even tire wear front vs rear but depending on car setup or my mistakes as a driver that doesn’t always happen.

Directional tires means you're stuck doing front to rear and visa versa. After about 50% wear, I take them to the tire shop and fip them inside out for the last 50%

blacksheep-1 said:

Directional tires means you're stuck doing front to rear and visa versa. After about 50% wear, I take them to the tire shop and fip them inside out for the last 50%

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Unless you're in a 2013/14 GT500. 19" fronts, 20" rears, directional tires. No rotating those dudes. A lot of people crapped on the Goodyears, but they were great tires once they warmed up.,

First time I rotate side to side as most tracks wear one side more than another due to number of track turns in one direction. After that I start viewing wear and will move some front to back. Watching the wear of the tires is a major point in getting the most wear out of your rubber, but with tracks being different your eyeballs are your best bet to assess wear. The correct wear regimen is not static, you need to keep notes on each track you run, and if a new one don't be shy about asking those who frequent it regularly.

@blacksheep-1 are you okay with my habit of sometimes running directional tires backwards in the dry to even out wear?

stevbd said:

@blacksheep-1 are you okay with my habit of sometimes running directional tires backwards in the dry to even out wear?

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I'm actually not, once the cords take a set after a couple of heat cycles, I like to leave them rotating the same way. No mfg that I know of recommends running them counter rotation. I've seen where the rubber is bonded, start to create a gap when run backwards. I just think it's a bad idea. The guys running 19s n 20s need to find an 18 inch wheel so they can run square, it will be very beneficial in the long run. You only see 18s in IMSA.

blacksheep-1 said:

I'm actually not, once the cords take a set after a couple of heat cycles, I like to leave them rotating the same way. No mfg that I know of recommends running them counter rotation. I've seen where the rubber is bonded, start to create a gap when run backwards. I just think it's a bad idea. The guys running 19s n 20s need to find an 18 inch wheel so they can run square, it will be very beneficial in the long run. You only see 18s in IMSA.

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Unfortunately, 18” wheels won’t clear the S650 Dark Horse or GT PP brakes, so we have to run 19” unless the brakes are modified.

krisk said:

Unfortunately, 18” wheels won’t clear the S650 Dark Horse or GT PP brakes, so we have to run 19” unless the brakes are modified.

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I know nothing. I just saw this video from Vorshlag installing different 18" wheels on a Dark Horse in an attempt to clear those massive brakes.

krisk said:

Unfortunately, 18” wheels won’t clear the S650 Dark Horse or GT PP brakes, so we have to run 19” unless the brakes are modified.

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Yeah, I'm not sure what calipers are being used these days, the 4 pot Brembos were fine for PWC and Grand Am, then Ford got all artsy fartsy with things. When they created the GTD series, everyone told them to run race brakes and 18inch wheels, so of course they didn't, now I think they are...who knows, but they do run 18 in wheels so they at least came back to reality there, but all the Gt4 stuff is 18inch.

Junkyard Dog said:

I know nothing. I just saw this video from Vorshlag installing different 18" wheels on a Dark Horse in an attempt to clear those massive brakes.

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Interesting that they show the forged Apex wheel fitting. They did say it was an 18x12, so it would be interesting if the 18x11 fit as well. When I was at Road Atlanta for the MCA 50th anniversary, @steveespo was in the paddock next to me and we tried out his 18 inch Apex wheels on my car. The barrel was barely making contact with the caliper, so they didn't quite fit. @steveespo, which wheels were those we tried?

krisk said:

Interesting that they show the forged Apex wheel fitting. They did say it was an 18x12, so it would be interesting if the 18x11 fit as well. When I was at Road Atlanta for the MCA 50th anniversary, @steveespo was in the paddock next to me and we tried out his 18 inch Apex wheels on my car. The barrel was barely making contact with the caliper, so they didn't quite fit. @steveespo, which wheels were those we tried?

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Was the wheel red?

krisk said:

Interesting that they show the forged Apex wheel fitting. They did say it was an 18x12, so it would be interesting if the 18x11 fit as well. When I was at Road Atlanta for the MCA 50th anniversary, @steveespo was in the paddock next to me and we tried out his 18 inch Apex wheels on my car. The barrel was barely making contact with the caliper, so they didn't quite fit. @steveespo, which wheels were those we tried?

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I doubt there is going to be any way to run a 12" wide wheel up front in any event, so that may be out.

That's too bad. That means never any racing slicks to try out on the S650.

Junkyard Dog said:

I doubt there is going to be any way to run a 12" wide wheel up front in any event, so that may be out.

That's too bad. That means never any racing slicks to try out on the S650.

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If there's a lathe, there's a way...

krisk said:

Interesting that they show the forged Apex wheel fitting. They did say it was an 18x12, so it would be interesting if the 18x11 fit as well. When I was at Road Atlanta for the MCA 50th anniversary, @steveespo was in the paddock next to me and we tried out his 18 inch Apex wheels on my car. The barrel was barely making contact with the caliper, so they didn't quite fit. @steveespo, which wheels were those we tried?

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So I have been researching Vorshlag online, looking at their posts, blog, videos, etc. That 18 x 12 Apex wheel (sorry I missed all of this information watching the video previously) is what they installed on their car called "Trigger." Trigger is an S550, a 2017, that has had the entire front end ripped off and replaced with an aftermarket nose and fenders. The fenders mimic a GT350 and give a lot more room to run a 12 inch wheel and a 315 AO52 tire. They also run a spacer. They also run a "whole bunch" of aero, so much so that they ended up having to cut some of the front splitter off so they would not have to back onto the trailer anymore.

You can see Trigger's after market fender right after they show the Apex wheel clearing the Dark Horse's brake caliper. Trigger is on the lift up above the Dark Horse.

The AO52 is available in a 19" tire that is 295/35, 11.1" tread and 27" tall, which should be within 3% of my original tire diameter. Not sure if that extra height would give me clearance issues, though. I think the short height of my stock 305/30 and 315/30 have a lot to do with the clearance of my tires on my car.

Having Blue Ember Metallic, I really, really do not want any rubbing on painted surfaces.


So the Forgestar newer wheels with the drop barrel fit (18 x 10), later in the video.

Also Jongbloed.

Also Apex, but, as you pointed out, it is an 18 x 12.

I wonder if the wheel you tried from the 21 car has the drop barrel? I do not know when Apex started making them. Google's AI found their first introduction was in 2014 on the PS-7 wheel.

All the photos I can find of the Enduro line have the drop barrel design, the VS-5RE, going back to their introduction almost 5 years ago.

Same for VS-5RS, the Sprint Line, going back to their introduction almost 5 years ago.

It seems like the drop barrel is what matters, but maybe not. It seems like the drop barrel would give the extra clearance whether on a 12 inch or an 11 inch wheel, but it is not like I have compared them in real life. You have. So . . .


Oh, here is what the drop barrel looks like, in case anybody reading is curious. See how that shape gives more room inside the barrel for brakes?

Although Apex pretty clearly says this on their web site:

Brake Clearance Note
Ecoboost and GT's equipped with Performance Package brakes and all Dark Horse models cannot run 18" wheels, 19" and larger diameters are required.




So strange that Vorshlag would be able to fit the wheel.