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3Vs...We're Not Dead Yet!

Apex3V

Heel-n-Toe Enthusiast
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Hi Apex3V,

The Spec Iron class is great....the SE is booming....the guys down there came up to run nationals with us Great Lakes boys at MidOhio and we had a blast. The cars are rather equal....look at our qualifying and race times for the championship race. Once you get your car dialed in...the racing is really pretty driver dependent. I just started running in SI two years ago after ten years in Spec Miata. It takes as much or more money and time to build, maintain, and run a front running Spec Miata as it does a Spec Iron car, and the SI cars are WAY more fun to drive :) I am looking forward to growing the class in the Great Lakes Region. Climb the ladder and come on racing, the SE guys will treat you right!

Chris
Yeah I've talked with most of the SE guys and they've all been really helpful so far, from everything I saw at the nationals it looked like some great racing among y'all. Hopefully once I'm racing I can make the trip up there and have some fun :)
 

Jbrad

TMO Intermediate
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California
I’ve been away from my car for a few months due to a new baby but getting going on it again. What did everyone do for alternator issues? I’d rather swap now and keep the current working one in the car as a back up.
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
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Japan
Bought a new alternator (PA Performance) when the dreaded check charging system error came up. Haven't had any issues since.
 

Jbrad

TMO Intermediate
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California
Bought a new alternator (PA Performance) when the dreaded check charging system error came up. Haven't had any issues since.
Thanks I also plan on tracking the car more in 2020 what type of water and oil temps is everyone seeing? I just picked up autometer gauges with warning lights and I need some base level settings.
 

TrakRat197

TMO Beginner
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Wisconsin
I’ve been away from my car for a few months due to a new baby but getting going on it again. What did everyone do for alternator issues? I’d rather swap now and keep the current working one in the car as a back up.
After killing one at Gingerman shortly after I bought my car, and then that ones replacement a couple days later on the street... I dropped the coin on a department of boost alternator. Has been working great and seen plenty of high rpm.
 

Jbrad

TMO Intermediate
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California
Curious to get everyone’s feedback that’s running the 18mm rear bar? I know it’s popular for the coyote s197’s not sure how it works with us lower hp 3v’s
 

ChrisM

Mostly harmless.
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Curious to get everyone’s feedback that’s running the 18mm rear bar? I know it’s popular for the coyote s197’s not sure how it works with us lower hp 3v’s
I suspect it'll be identical. Weight distribution and suspension setup is largely the same for both cars despite the power differences.
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
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Devil's advocate here . . . I suspect that a lower powered car could benefit from a slightly looser setup than what its more powerful cousins normally use, so 18 might be a bit light.

Depends on what the rest of the setup actually is as well, such as whether the front bar is OE or some aftermarket bar at, say, 50% firmer, or what the front to rear spring rate bias actually is.


Norm
 

Jbrad

TMO Intermediate
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California
Devil's advocate here . . . I suspect that a lower powered car could benefit from a slightly looser setup than what its more powerful cousins normally use, so 18 might be a bit light.

Depends on what the rest of the setup actually is as well, such as whether the front bar is OE or some aftermarket bar at, say, 50% firmer, or what the front to rear spring rate bias actually is.


Norm
interesting I’m currently running 560/280 with a stock 05 gt bar and whiteline front bar
 

RodS197

TMO Intermediate
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Utah
I am running 550lb front, 250lb rear with Ground Control double adjustable Konis. FRPP 35mm front bar full stiff, and 18mm rear bar. The rear bar has been a constant for me through my suspension upgrades. Helped settle the back down for me. With my car understeer has never been an issue.
 

Jbrad

TMO Intermediate
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Location
California
Looking for advice on my next upgrades since I have nothing but time on my hands lately due to corona.

I need to address my uca and was wondering what everyone is running?The car is lowered roughly 2 inches on coilovers with whiteline watts link. I know these things can be hit or miss so any advice is welcomed.

i also want to add an oil cooler/oil pressure gauge. What’s everyone running for a sandwich plate and is there oil filter clearance issues.
 

TrakRat197

TMO Beginner
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Wisconsin
i also want to add an oil cooler/oil pressure gauge. What’s everyone running for a sandwich plate and is there oil filter clearance issues.
I am running the mushimoto oil cooler setup with the thermostatic sandwich and nice mounting bracket for the 11-14 GT, on my 07 GT. All I had to do to make it work was space out my hard line loop for the power steering cooling so it is in front of the cooler. With the sandwich adapter on there the filter clearance is tight, I forget which filter I have on right now but it required me to loosen up the sway bar to thread it on, has plenty of clearance once its tight and all, but not sticking with it. I hear STP s2 filters are short enough to clear, as well as possibly the fl820s ford filters. Will be doing some fitment testing here soon once i change my oil for the spring.

15853583314776062917635312117003.jpg


15853583649725078191481896122977.jpg


15853583838945908678432890999858.jpg
 

RodS197

TMO Intermediate
Messages
44
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77
Location
Utah
Looking for advice on my next upgrades since I have nothing but time on my hands lately due to corona.

I need to address my uca and was wondering what everyone is running?The car is lowered roughly 2 inches on coilovers with whiteline watts link. I know these things can be hit or miss so any advice is welcomed.

i also want to add an oil cooler/oil pressure gauge. What’s everyone running for a sandwich plate and is there oil filter clearance issues.
I had my rear axle out some time ago to put in a Torsen T2R and 3.73 gears and took the time to burn the top bushing out so I could put in a poly bushing. I put in an adjustable UCA at the same time so I could set the pinion angle. I think I got a BMR unit, but I can't quite remember. I am about 2" lower in the rear as well.

I don't have an oil cooler setup as the 4.6 3V seems to run OK with out them. Just get a big aluminum radiator for sure. None of the FR500S cars ran oil coolers, or the Miller school cars, (I am in Utah) so I never worried about putting one in. If I had one I would feel good about it, but my water temps never get above 220 or so on hot summer days. But I am also running no AC condenser in front of the radiator and my radiator is boxed in.

Have fun with the mods!
 

Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
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Location
a few miles east of Philly
Looking for advice on my next upgrades since I have nothing but time on my hands lately due to corona.

I need to address my uca and was wondering what everyone is running?
Give some thought to Whiteline's UCAs, the ones with the "max-C" bushings. You gain some stiffness in the 'good' direction (tension/compression in the link itself) without adding as much stiffness in the "not so good" directions (commonly called 'bind'). If yours is an early S197 that uses the short UCA, you'll also want the later S197 UCA chassis-side bracket (and the Whiteline UCA may require it). This is a good thing, because it makes the geometry more stable as the suspension moves. Vorshlag currently has these UCAs on about a 10% off sale. I'm about as slow to throw money at parts just because they're new or claim improvement over OEM as anyone, but this one does have my attention.

Alternatively, it is possible to do your own "max-C" modifications to the more common polyurethane pieces once you know what you're trying to do. I won't try to claim that there'd be no sacrifice in bushing life, or attempt to guess how long it might take for any sort of bushing deterioration to show up. Only that I've done this a couple of times before.

Important to note is that the current Whiteline UCA doesn't bear much resemblance to the early Whiteline design that did have problems (and discussed several years ago on this and other Mustang forums). Turns out that a video that does a good job of showing how the UCA wobbles around while you're driving and not just in a straight line uses the older Whiteline UCA. Watch it for lateral movement in the demonstration, not at the part number that you don't want and hopefully can't find.



The car is lowered roughly 2 inches on coilovers with whiteline watts link. I know these things can be hit or miss so any advice is welcomed.
Too low IMO. You do end up with a more aggressive static camber setting, but unless you've done some roll center correction and some bumpsteer correction to then fix what the roll center correction did to that, you also move into a slower region of the camber gain curve and your front geometric roll center has dropped from a couple inches or so above the ground to at least that much below it.


Norm
 
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Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
Messages
646
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510
Location
a few miles east of Philly
That's the earlier iteration of the "max-C", where the compliance was provided via pinholes. The movement and the 'squirm' are still going to be there (else the UCA in conjunction with the PHB or Watts link would have become a neatly-disguised rear sta-bar in addition to their obvious functions). But the forces induced by that squirm are much lower than if the bushing material was solid so you're not getting nearly as much unintended rear roll stiffness.

The newer one looks like the picture below where there is some contouring of the faces (can't tell if they still use the pinholes even though Whiteline's own text claims that they do). At any rate, they got away from simply fillet-welding relatively thinwall tubes together and have a much more robust design. I'm not sure that the ability to tinker with anti-squat remains, though.

1585500863528.png




1585498233873.png



Norm
 
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Norm Peterson

Corner Barstool Sitter
Messages
646
Reaction score
510
Location
a few miles east of Philly
It’s too bad you can still see the ‘binding’ , squirm and resistance to twist in the front yellow bushing.
That's exactly what I was trying to show. The movement, including the off-axis movement, cannot be avoided without developing huge forces. You can see the movement (which does not affect elastic load transfer), but not the force or its effects (which do).

The softer the bushings (in the 'bad directions'), the lower the induced forces (that you don't want). Swap both OE bushings out for low-friction rod ends, and the movement will still be there, it just won't be opening up little gaps anywhere. You have to think in the force domain rather than the displacement domain.

I've been DIY tinkering with suspension bushings off and on since at least as far back as the late-1990's when I was playing around trying to make a 1979 Chevy Malibu handle better than OE or what the usual drag-race oriented parts could provide. I'd bought a set of polyurethane suspension bushings for that car, and went through two or three iterations of "softening the rear LCA bushings" up, eventually making something like 75% or a bit more of the usual-for-the-time poly "bind" go away. Clearly noticeable when crossing drainage gutters at an angle, where lateral head-toss as the rear axle crosses the dip was most clearly felt. Means there was that much less of the LCAs "pretending to be hidden sta-bar arms" with the axle being a sta-bar torsional section going on during cornering as well.


Norm
 

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