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a clear and present danger..

5,152
6,073

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
4,862
3,716
Santiago, Chile
I certianly hope they dont mandate taking cars off the road, all hell would break loose.. but I seriously doubt it would get even close to that. What is odd, is that the US has no rapid rail system. Getting something trucked from California to Miami is way to expensive.
 

xr7

TMO Addict?
560
605
Exp. Type
Autocross
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5-10 Years
Minnesota
So this is the cost for a barrel of crude oil from 2012 to roughly now. Notice how the price cratered in 2020 when the pandemic hit. Now there's all this whining about gas being so high. Supply and demand and work. Now lets panic buy more crap because of a back up of container ships at Los Angeles and Long Beach. Turn off the tube, toss your phone under your bed and pull the plug on your laptop. Go out in the garage and and do something with that Mustang, wash it, wax it or take it for a drive. Gas was $4.20 a gallon when I bought my Boss in March of 2012 and that didn't have any influence on my purchase.
Thanks - Rant Over
brent-crude-oil-prices-10-year-daily-chart-2021-10-21-macrotrends.png
 
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TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,074
4,440
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Illinois
Actually, no. We were not on our way to energy independence, we WERE there. If you google "US Energy Independence", Even the left leaning post from Wikipedia stated we had reached independence in Nov of 2019. No pandemic then. We Produced More than we consumed and were a net exporter.

Speaking of the pandemic as though it is over is a bit disingenuous assuming the current administration is forcing employers to fire employees who have not received the vaccine because of the pandemic.

Supply and demand, since you brought it up, good point. The steep upward curve in the graphic you posted is not due solely to the increase in consumption since consumption is Not back to pre-pandemic levels. It because of the executive actions which have Cut supply as well as exploration. I work in the oil producing south, have for three years. Fuel prices are now significantly higher than when I move here, Pre-pandemic. Folks who work for the oil companies have been cut loose. We have hired a few. To copy and paste the half truths about demand being down during the pandemic without including the supply issues and current demand is questionable. Simple supply and demand without executive intervention and policy change would have produced a much shallower recovery curve.

Shall we discuss inflation next??
 
5,762
6,899
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
B87C1270-A5AF-4F38-ACC5-7C23D46B92C2.jpeg
 
1,150
1,125
In the V6L
I'm so over this clown, just how can anyone that supports our sport buy into this.
Full disclosure, this is a right of center news source, but since no one else will say it..

I'm not inspired by the politics of this or the way it's portrayed.

Basically, there are lots of places in the world with commuter trains that get people to work for a fraction of the cost of owning a car and in a fraction of the time they'd have to spend sitting breathing fumes on a clogged road system. People like rail. Even where I live, the main highways are toxic because they're badly under capacity for daily traffic. Between my wife and I, we have four cars at our disposal but I usually use transit to go downtown because it's faster and cheaper by far than taking a car. Back in the 60's and 70's pictures of highways showed open roads and freedom. Nowadays, pictures of the same highways show cars jammed nose to tail going nowhere.
 
5,152
6,073
I'm not inspired by the politics of this or the way it's portrayed.

Basically, there are lots of places in the world with commuter trains that get people to work for a fraction of the cost of owning a car and in a fraction of the time they'd have to spend sitting breathing fumes on a clogged road system. People like rail. Even where I live, the main highways are toxic because they're badly under capacity for daily traffic. Between my wife and I, we have four cars at our disposal but I usually use transit to go downtown because it's faster and cheaper by far than taking a car. Back in the 60's and 70's pictures of highways showed open roads and freedom. Nowadays, pictures of the same highways show cars jammed nose to tail going nowhere.


The difference is.. the government acting in a responsible manner, planning for the future, increasing and improving highways along with other means of transportation, especially for inner cities where most of the pollution is taking place due to clogged traffic arteries, and the government saying "screw you, we are going to make you do this whether you like it or not". And Oh, by the way, we haven't planned ahead for this so we are going to do it all in about 5 years.
Keep in mind, these are the same people that flew 2500 environmental hacks to a global warming summit, mostly on private jets, that don't want you to drive a pickup truck. When I see Al Gore, selling off his mansion(s) , his SUVs and move to a cave where he eats moss for food and lights his farts for heat, I'll believe that he's serious about global warming, until then, I'll take a pass.
 
1,150
1,125
In the V6L
The difference is.. the government acting in a responsible manner, planning for the future, increasing and improving highways along with other means of transportation, especially for inner cities where most of the pollution is taking place due to clogged traffic arteries, and the government saying "screw you, we are going to make you do this whether you like it or not". And Oh, by the way, we haven't planned ahead for this so we are going to do it all in about 5 years.
Keep in mind, these are the same people that flew 2500 environmental hacks to a global warming summit, mostly on private jets, that don't want you to drive a pickup truck. When I see Al Gore, selling off his mansion(s) , his SUVs and move to a cave where he eats moss for food and lights his farts for heat, I'll believe that he's serious about global warming, until then, I'll take a pass.
I get the hypocrisy, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Getting rail is good because people want it. Getting cars off the road is a slogan because some people want to hear it so ignore it if that's not you. There's a point where cities need commuter rail - subways, LRT, whatever - to take the load off the roads. We built a subway here in Vancouver on the run-up to the 2010 winter Olympics here. Activists and social democrats were outraged at the expense, but when it was complete it was running at target capacity within 3 years and they're expanding it now as fast as they can. As for the effect on cars? Well, we could get from one place to another at a reasonable pace again. Everybody won.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,074
4,440
Exp. Type
HPDE
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10-20 Years
Illinois
"Everybody in Vancouver won". I fixed this for you. Everyone in the country paid the bill, correct?
The Great Debate in the states is between the over crowded cities and the rest of the people. We are told the way forward is to electrify our automobiles mostly because the cities are producing more pollution than nature can clean. OK, let the cities fund the problem. I can't for the life of me remember when a farm community said "Hey, lets get the city folks to pay for our combines, grain elevators and fuel". Nope, they simply built farm cooperatives and fixed the short comings on their dime. The folks who needed paid the bill.
The direction we are headed, electrify all vehicles, the city folks will get to work on time while folks in the rural areas will be spending days to get to and from. It takes more than 5 of the best, largest fuel cells now in production to equal the KW output from on tank of fuel in a diesel pickup. We all will get the bill. Not a great direction. Then again, when has a one size fits all government solution been one size fits all??
 
1,150
1,125
In the V6L
"Everybody in Vancouver won". I fixed this for you. Everyone in the country paid the bill, correct?
[...]
I'm not quite sure what your point is. Government of Canada paid about 21% of the capital cost of building the subway. BC's population pays about 13% of the federal government's total tax revenue, so yes, the feds put up a bit more than their share, but it was pretty balanced overall.

Meanwhile, getting cars off the roads that previously held commuters actually reduced traffic on the same roads that carry inbound freight east and south from Canada's major Pacific port. That benefited the Canadian economy and of course, Vancouver is a gateway for goods heading south into the USA.

Oh, and as for the folks in rural communities that don't commute on Vancouver roads, well, they ship a huge amount of produce and natural resources out through the port here, and they got better service and better rates too.

So, reframing your statement, "Everyone in Canada and some people in the USA won" and most of the money came from BC and Vancouver taxpayers and transit users. You're welcome.
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
1,610
1,691
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
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20+ Years
5 miles from Mosport
I'm not quite sure what your point is. Government of Canada paid about 21% of the capital cost of building the subway. BC's population pays about 13% of the federal government's total tax revenue, so yes, the feds put up a bit more than their share, but it was pretty balanced overall.

Meanwhile, getting cars off the roads that previously held commuters actually reduced traffic on the same roads that carry inbound freight east and south from Canada's major Pacific port. That benefited the Canadian economy and of course, Vancouver is a gateway for goods heading south into the USA.

Oh, and as for the folks in rural communities that don't commute on Vancouver roads, well, they ship a huge amount of produce and natural resources out through the port here, and they got better service and better rates too.

So, reframing your statement, "Everyone in Canada and some people in the USA won" and most of the money came from BC and Vancouver taxpayers and transit users. You're welcome.

<rant>
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I live in small town rural Ontario, pay a heap of federal tax, and I get zero benefit from the feds spending money on a subway in BC. I doubt I get anything shipped out of the port of Vancouver either. It's pretty galling since the current federal government knows nothing about rural areas except when there's a photo op of the curly headed wonder strolling down a beach in BC.

We have no public transit here. Zero. The VIA train between Toronto and Montreal doesn't even stop here any more, hasn't for over 25 years, so I can't even leverage the only piece of public transit that passes through here. I drive everywhere, because it's the only game in town. And this morning I get a notice that my gas supply cost is going up due to the federal government increasing their carbon tax on gas to heat my house and water. Meanwhile, the mop head jets off for a little vacay with the wife and kiddies in Mehico which requires 2 jets and multiple trips for his "entourage" and security detail. The hypocrisy of this government disgusts me.

That's one of the biggest reasons why I can't buy into this enviro shiznit, it's just a football being used by a tax and spend government to pry more money out of the hands of citizens. I trust nothing these monkeys say, and am tired of being governed by a party that knows nothing of the life of people living outside cities and could care less. Actions speak, and their actions tell me it's nothing but a tax grab.
</rant>
 

TymeSlayer

Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...
3,777
2,704
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3-5 Years
Brighton, Colorado
Public transportation doesn't take you where you need to go. Taking a train to go to the Home Depot? Taking a bus to a friends house ten miles away? I suppose if you live downtown in a big city this might make sense but not where I live. These forms of transportation will leave you blocks, perhaps even further from your destination. Try walking the rest of the way in the rain or snow. Oh, and then there's this: "Using fixed-effects and pooled OLS models, the findings were that the bus caused an increase in the mean property crime rate in the census tracts touching that line by about 1.4%. This provides evidence that public transportation does in fact increase crime rates in areas surrounding it."
And think about the cost of making it feasible in the burbs. And who will pay for this? As of 2021 Tax Freedom day is May 31st. https://www.adamsmith.org/taxfreedomday - That's 150 days into the year before you theoretically make your first net dollar. And it's not getting better, it's getting worse as our politicians look for more and more ways to take more from the hard working people. At some point, not working and freeloading makes more sense. And what happens when no-one works and the government has no taxes to collect and thus can no longer afford giving us all handouts? You folks are smart enough to figure it out. And don't be fooled because it obvious to anyone not living under a rock that this is where the current administration is taking us.

Sorry about this but I'm still having issues with my Mustang and that has me feeling a bit cranky.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
7,074
4,440
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Illinois
I'm not quite sure what your point is. Government of Canada paid about 21% of the capital cost of building the subway. BC's population pays about 13% of the federal government's total tax revenue, so yes, the feds put up a bit more than their share, but it was pretty balanced overall.
Change the names and it all sounds so sanitary. Do it long enough and the folks you take money from are numb to the “Withdrawal“ from their personal funds.
The “Government of Canada” make nothing, produces no wealth. They redistribute. Same as in the states. Redistribution sounds so much better than taking.
Is it reasonable to say that 90% of the people which live outside your province will never see Vancouver? How many Newfie’s ride that train? How many paid for that train? All the tax payers, yep. But, hey, it’s only a 21% share. It’s not like someone put a gun to their head and made them pay the whole bill, that would be outrageous, less sanitary. I would love to have someone pay 21% of my track costs. You in? Of course not, what benefit to you get from me receiving your money? Now this all could change if a majority of folks became track rats like us. Then we could vote for non-track rats to pay some of our bills, not all, that would get messy and the folks not on track would get upset to the point of revolt…..it we took the money to soon.
Personal experience. The RTA in Chicago, founded in 1974 included the six counties near Chicago. They taxes all counties equally. Services were let’s say, not equal. In fact, I lived in a town which was the farthest away from the city. What was provided to us out in the sticks? Nothing. So, by law if we were not provided a service, benefit we could not be taxed. We went to court. So what did the benevolent soles in Chicago do? They put up a aluminum and plastic bus stop in town. The bus come one day of the week and returned another. That’s right, you could ride that bus to the closest mall, get a hotel for two days and ride back. You can imagine the ridership was low. The low ridership was used to reduce service. That was 47 years ago. Not much has changed. Scale maybe.
The current Biden, liberal projects are little different that that of the RTA, except in scale. Today they want people which will receive little to no benefit to pay their “Fair Share”. Sounds good right! The rub? “Fair Share”

We are not as “Socially Enlightened” in the states. At least not yet.
 
1,150
1,125
In the V6L
<rant>
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I live in small town rural Ontario, pay a heap of federal tax, and I get zero benefit from the feds spending money on a subway in BC. I doubt I get anything shipped out of the port of Vancouver either. It's pretty galling since the current federal government knows nothing about rural areas except when there's a photo op of the curly headed wonder strolling down a beach in BC.

We have no public transit here. Zero. The VIA train between Toronto and Montreal doesn't even stop here any more, hasn't for over 25 years, so I can't even leverage the only piece of public transit that passes through here. I drive everywhere, because it's the only game in town. And this morning I get a notice that my gas supply cost is going up due to the federal government increasing their carbon tax on gas to heat my house and water. Meanwhile, the mop head jets off for a little vacay with the wife and kiddies in Mehico which requires 2 jets and multiple trips for his "entourage" and security detail. The hypocrisy of this government disgusts me.

That's one of the biggest reasons why I can't buy into this enviro shiznit, it's just a football being used by a tax and spend government to pry more money out of the hands of citizens. I trust nothing these monkeys say, and am tired of being governed by a party that knows nothing of the life of people living outside cities and could care less. Actions speak, and their actions tell me it's nothing but a tax grab.
</rant>
Wow! You really need to move to Vancouver. You'd get a really big benefit from all the services we get here. Of course, a house will cost a couple of million bucks and you'll pay $15k or so in annual property taxes, but hey, you'll have bus service and trash pickup every two weeks. Vancouver just sidestepped a new tax on street parking - it was going to be $1k a year to park a gas-powered car on the street in front of your house overnight. Missed passing by 1 vote on council when the mayor used his tie-breaker vote.

If you want to really be cynical about the climate measures in Canada, spend a few minutes thinking about the fact that Canada only produces 3% of the global carbon. Most of the measures taken in Canada are just virtue signaling - the real effect of these measures is a rounding error on a rounding error.
 

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