On this car I think it was just bolted to the bumper. When the splitter was installed, it pressed up against the spacer. IIRC, there was a thin foam gasket between the spacer and the splitter blade.
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S197 BOSS 302 Race Car Build Thread Build Thread
- Thread starterArizonaBOSS
- Start date
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I've seen 1" thick building styrofoam used as the spacer with black duct tape across the front to protect it from the elements. Sandwiched between the splitter and fascia mounting it should be plenty strong.
- 147
- 60
@Jason (modernbeat)- after you modified the front splitter, did you notice any change in the front to rear balance of the car?
If so, where on track did you notice it the most?
And, if so, did you need to do anything to the rear of the car to balance it out? TIA.
Or, did you get more grip in the front, your intention, and leave the rear alone?
If so, where on track did you notice it the most?
And, if so, did you need to do anything to the rear of the car to balance it out? TIA.
Or, did you get more grip in the front, your intention, and leave the rear alone?
Doc, change would be an understatement.
Before this we ran a standard Laguna Seca "splitter". I put splitter in quotes because it's really just an appearance lip. It does not go far enough back under the car and is far, far too flexible to support any real aero forces. In fact, one of our customers that ran one had the front supports pull through the flexible blade at speed. We also ran a rear wing. Now, the wing wasn't very good. It was originally selected to run much closer to the deck, so we bought a 3D wing. That's where the center section has a different angle of attack relative to the outer sections. We changed classes and raised the wing to get more clean air, but we really should have switched to a better design to take advantage of the allowable position. We also had another trunk with a large spoiler mounted on it for autocross use. This spoiler setup was chosen to be legal for an SCCA Street Touring autocross class that was pretty restrictive. The wing was used in NASA Time Trials.
Here's the wing we ran on track.
And here is the spoiler we used for autocross.
After that we decided that the SCCA class just wasn't fun in an S197 and they didn't have another suitable class for the car, so we pursued NASA Time Trials without worry about staying SCCA legal. But, we didn't just add a splitter and a spacer. We replaced the entire front bumper beam, added front and rear ducting to the radiator and ducted it through the hood. Terry wanted a LOT of front downforce, and so we gave it to him. The original splitter and ductwork ended up making the car too loose. We tried a few spring combos to balance it, but the real issue was that the front and rear aero had different efficiencies at different speeds and we simply could not balance them.
Here's the car with the original long splitter and old 3D wing, but before we added the front wheel spats.
We added better brake ducting and front wheel spats/flares before we went to NASA TT Nationals.
We shortened the front splitter a couple inches and ran it with the old wing for a short time while we looked at various wing manufacturers. We evaluated the old and reliable and some new manufacturers before selecting AJ Hartman and working with him to build we wings we wanted. With this new wing and the more appropriately sized splitter the car worked very well and was easy for Terry to drive. The car evolved through other ways too. We increased tire sizes and flared the rear fenders. We tried a few different dampers with multiple valvings and every change necessitated a spring rate change and some fine tuning with the bars.
Here it is with metal rear flares, front spat-flares, medium length splitter, good wing in clean air, ducted radiator and vented hood.
Before this we ran a standard Laguna Seca "splitter". I put splitter in quotes because it's really just an appearance lip. It does not go far enough back under the car and is far, far too flexible to support any real aero forces. In fact, one of our customers that ran one had the front supports pull through the flexible blade at speed. We also ran a rear wing. Now, the wing wasn't very good. It was originally selected to run much closer to the deck, so we bought a 3D wing. That's where the center section has a different angle of attack relative to the outer sections. We changed classes and raised the wing to get more clean air, but we really should have switched to a better design to take advantage of the allowable position. We also had another trunk with a large spoiler mounted on it for autocross use. This spoiler setup was chosen to be legal for an SCCA Street Touring autocross class that was pretty restrictive. The wing was used in NASA Time Trials.
Here's the wing we ran on track.
And here is the spoiler we used for autocross.
After that we decided that the SCCA class just wasn't fun in an S197 and they didn't have another suitable class for the car, so we pursued NASA Time Trials without worry about staying SCCA legal. But, we didn't just add a splitter and a spacer. We replaced the entire front bumper beam, added front and rear ducting to the radiator and ducted it through the hood. Terry wanted a LOT of front downforce, and so we gave it to him. The original splitter and ductwork ended up making the car too loose. We tried a few spring combos to balance it, but the real issue was that the front and rear aero had different efficiencies at different speeds and we simply could not balance them.
Here's the car with the original long splitter and old 3D wing, but before we added the front wheel spats.
We added better brake ducting and front wheel spats/flares before we went to NASA TT Nationals.
We shortened the front splitter a couple inches and ran it with the old wing for a short time while we looked at various wing manufacturers. We evaluated the old and reliable and some new manufacturers before selecting AJ Hartman and working with him to build we wings we wanted. With this new wing and the more appropriately sized splitter the car worked very well and was easy for Terry to drive. The car evolved through other ways too. We increased tire sizes and flared the rear fenders. We tried a few different dampers with multiple valvings and every change necessitated a spring rate change and some fine tuning with the bars.
Here it is with metal rear flares, front spat-flares, medium length splitter, good wing in clean air, ducted radiator and vented hood.
302 Hi Pro
Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
MB:
Could you post a few pics of the top and underside of your vented hood? I think that is an interesting topic. TYIA,
302 Hi Pro
Could you post a few pics of the top and underside of your vented hood? I think that is an interesting topic. TYIA,
302 Hi Pro
Sure, I'll post a couple photos here, but there are a number of photos that document the work done on the red car. I'll link the section of the gallery where the hood and bumper ducting start and find the place in the forum thread where we did the work.
But, here's a good shot of the entire front bumper and splitter on Red (aka: Pretty Pony). Looks like my memory was failing me. On this car the entire bumper cover (but not the beam), front grille, spacer, splitter and the front of the front flares were bolted together and came off as a unit.
Here's the front end showing the tubular front bumper beam that supports the splitter and radiator ducting.
And an underside of the hood, showing the twin ducts. The slot in the middle was necessary in this car to accommodate the intake tract.
There's a lot more to this than just some holes in the hood. I already showed the ductwork and bumper beam. But for track use we also build a lot of radiator grilles to protect from stone damage and keep grass and bugs (the grasshoppers are fierce sometimes in Texas) from plugging up the radiators.
We also have to relocate a lot of underhood components so we have a free flowing area between the radiator and hood.
The gallery starts here, with the first pic of the coolant tank in it's new location where the air filter used to reside.
https://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Projects/Vorshlag-2011-Mustang-GT-build/i-nKkkgQ2
The forum posts start here with the relocation of underhood components and mockup of the Smurf blue hood.
http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57699#post57699
There was similar work, with more emphasis on aesthetics, but not as extreme on the performance, done to this Roush. The gallery starts here with the arrival of a carbon hood we are going to modify.
https://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Vorshlag-Test-Pilots/James-Meeker/i-BBT9ddZ
And it got custom tanks, relocated battery and some smaller ducting of the radiator.
But, here's a good shot of the entire front bumper and splitter on Red (aka: Pretty Pony). Looks like my memory was failing me. On this car the entire bumper cover (but not the beam), front grille, spacer, splitter and the front of the front flares were bolted together and came off as a unit.
Here's the front end showing the tubular front bumper beam that supports the splitter and radiator ducting.
And an underside of the hood, showing the twin ducts. The slot in the middle was necessary in this car to accommodate the intake tract.
There's a lot more to this than just some holes in the hood. I already showed the ductwork and bumper beam. But for track use we also build a lot of radiator grilles to protect from stone damage and keep grass and bugs (the grasshoppers are fierce sometimes in Texas) from plugging up the radiators.
We also have to relocate a lot of underhood components so we have a free flowing area between the radiator and hood.
The gallery starts here, with the first pic of the coolant tank in it's new location where the air filter used to reside.
https://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Projects/Vorshlag-2011-Mustang-GT-build/i-nKkkgQ2
The forum posts start here with the relocation of underhood components and mockup of the Smurf blue hood.
http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57699#post57699
There was similar work, with more emphasis on aesthetics, but not as extreme on the performance, done to this Roush. The gallery starts here with the arrival of a carbon hood we are going to modify.
https://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Vorshlag-Test-Pilots/James-Meeker/i-BBT9ddZ
And it got custom tanks, relocated battery and some smaller ducting of the radiator.
Forgot the top view photos.
A couple "under construction" photos.
A couple "under construction" photos.
ArizonaBOSS said:
Drew, I know the stock stuff is done that way. Please reconsider not countersinking into ABS. We've found that the ABS is too soft and will creep around the countersunk fasteners and that the resulting strength of the ABS is not there. Either use button head bolts with washers for ABS, or switch to aluminum plate which can be countersunk.
- Thread starter
- #829
Jason:
Thanks for the heads-up.
I can change these fasteners out pretty easily for some that will use washers to spread out the load on the ABS; maybe I'll get that done before we hit Buttonwillow next month.
I've still got another splitter blank for @captdistraction so I'll hold off on drilling his until we can look into this a bit more.
Thanks for the heads-up.
I can change these fasteners out pretty easily for some that will use washers to spread out the load on the ABS; maybe I'll get that done before we hit Buttonwillow next month.
I've still got another splitter blank for @captdistraction so I'll hold off on drilling his until we can look into this a bit more.
- Thread starter
- #830
Race Report from NASA @ Wild Horse Pass East Track, March 2016:
This past weekend it was back to the familiar Wild Horse Pass East track here in Chandler, AZ. It's a 1.25 mile circuit that is basically flat and is tough on brakes. To be fast here you have to use a lot of the curbing and it does beat the car up a bit.
Raising the rear roll center seems to have helped a bit with respect to curing understeer, but the confidence from this change plus a fresh set of A7s had me charging pretty hard into the corners where slowing down just a hair more may have been more helpful than trying to carry as much speed as I thought I could. I didn't notice any ill effect from raising the rear RC, I'm going to bump it up one more hole before going to Buttonwillow next month.
Speaking of A7s, I was able to lay down some new personal best times in Saturday's qualifying session, which put me on the pole for Saturday's race (and first of three in class). Times under 1:00 are "The Holy Grail" at this track and I feel that if not for a couple of mistakes made during these laps I may have pushed into the high 58s.
Although the AIM showed a 59.24, the time recorded by the track's loop was 59.17...almost cracked the 58s!
Saturday's race was more about managing lap traffic, as I took an early lead at the start, and my nearest competitor in-class got collected by another car going into T1 (they both survived). After that it was all about consistency and not chewing up the A7s too bad during the race. The race was scheduled to last for 30 minutes, but we got the checker after 20 when a C6 Z06 blew an engine and laid down oil at a critical part of the track. I ended up first overall for the race.
Sunday was a bit of a physical challenge for me as I had spent all Saturday night (and most of Sunday morning) at a bachelor party for a close friend. Despite missing practice, I was able to crack off a 59.6 in qualifying that was good enough for the pole again during the race.
Again, I was able to get an early lead from the green and establish a nice cushion. This allowed me to back way off during the race to save the tires, and also allowed me to take my time getting through lap traffic. Although the race was scheduled for 30 minutes, we actually ran 40 due to the previous day's race getting cut short. Fortunately, I had enough fuel in the car to finish (the reduced pace helped as well), as nobody mentioned the change to 40 minutes! But again it was first overall for #41.
This wasn't the most challenging weekend from a race perspective, but I did pick up 200 points towards the regional championship for this year, enough to put me in first so far despite my incident in January at this same track. Gotta focus on clean, consistent, and fast driving for the rest of this year!
This past weekend it was back to the familiar Wild Horse Pass East track here in Chandler, AZ. It's a 1.25 mile circuit that is basically flat and is tough on brakes. To be fast here you have to use a lot of the curbing and it does beat the car up a bit.
Raising the rear roll center seems to have helped a bit with respect to curing understeer, but the confidence from this change plus a fresh set of A7s had me charging pretty hard into the corners where slowing down just a hair more may have been more helpful than trying to carry as much speed as I thought I could. I didn't notice any ill effect from raising the rear RC, I'm going to bump it up one more hole before going to Buttonwillow next month.
Speaking of A7s, I was able to lay down some new personal best times in Saturday's qualifying session, which put me on the pole for Saturday's race (and first of three in class). Times under 1:00 are "The Holy Grail" at this track and I feel that if not for a couple of mistakes made during these laps I may have pushed into the high 58s.
Although the AIM showed a 59.24, the time recorded by the track's loop was 59.17...almost cracked the 58s!
Saturday's race was more about managing lap traffic, as I took an early lead at the start, and my nearest competitor in-class got collected by another car going into T1 (they both survived). After that it was all about consistency and not chewing up the A7s too bad during the race. The race was scheduled to last for 30 minutes, but we got the checker after 20 when a C6 Z06 blew an engine and laid down oil at a critical part of the track. I ended up first overall for the race.
Sunday was a bit of a physical challenge for me as I had spent all Saturday night (and most of Sunday morning) at a bachelor party for a close friend. Despite missing practice, I was able to crack off a 59.6 in qualifying that was good enough for the pole again during the race.
Again, I was able to get an early lead from the green and establish a nice cushion. This allowed me to back way off during the race to save the tires, and also allowed me to take my time getting through lap traffic. Although the race was scheduled for 30 minutes, we actually ran 40 due to the previous day's race getting cut short. Fortunately, I had enough fuel in the car to finish (the reduced pace helped as well), as nobody mentioned the change to 40 minutes! But again it was first overall for #41.
This wasn't the most challenging weekend from a race perspective, but I did pick up 200 points towards the regional championship for this year, enough to put me in first so far despite my incident in January at this same track. Gotta focus on clean, consistent, and fast driving for the rest of this year!
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Drew, I re-used the stock bolts with the attached washer for my splitter for strength as I saw the picture from the Vorshlag build of the front strut mounts that pulled through the ABS plastic. That picture also prompted me to try these backside supports for the front splitter supports. I think these would help the "stand on your splitter" stress analysis test that Vorshlag recommends, provided you use a 2x4 between the mounts. ;D
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lng-23702/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lng-23702/overview/
Those countersunk washers look like a good solution.
- 899
- 546
I use the same washers with my WC splitter. I went ahead and picked up some longer cap screws to ensure sufficient thread engagement. What made me pick these up was Vorschlag's original posts of the fasteners alone pulling through the plastic splitter.
- Thread starter
- #834
Prepping for Auto Club Speedway with NASA AZ/SoCal this weekend.
Installed the Blowfish Racing MC Brace, and the splitter washers as shown above.
There will be at least 6 cars in my class at this race, and it should make for good racing on the big, open roval.
I only need to beat the one other AZ car in my class that is making the trip to keep my lead in season points, but if I can pick off a few other guys that would be great.
Going to be an uphill battle with this being my first time at this track vs. home-track advantage for the So Cal guys.
Installed the Blowfish Racing MC Brace, and the splitter washers as shown above.
There will be at least 6 cars in my class at this race, and it should make for good racing on the big, open roval.
I only need to beat the one other AZ car in my class that is making the trip to keep my lead in season points, but if I can pick off a few other guys that would be great.
Going to be an uphill battle with this being my first time at this track vs. home-track advantage for the So Cal guys.
- Thread starter
- #835
Note to self: Pics and video links repaired through Page 21.
Grant 302
basic and well known psychic
Can't imagine competing and running on a track for the first time.ArizonaBOSS said:
Lots of good tips from Billy Johnson:
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/1387/Fast-Lap-With-Billy-Johnson--Auto-Club-Speedway-Roval-Video-Inside.aspx
The kink at 9&10 has been paved over at 9, so unless it's coned for your race, there's barely a turn there.
Best of luck grabbing those points!
- Thread starter
- #837
@Grant 302 you da man! I have been watching a lot of tape from the fast racers in my class, but I will always hold Billy J's advice in the highest regard.
Grant 302
basic and well known psychic
LOL. Just a ____ spectator! Good luck with the tranport and logging another 'W'!
- Thread starter
- #839
Race Report: May 2016 NASA @ Auto Club Speedway
OK this was my first time heading to Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, California.
This is a Roval with speeds over 150mph on the banking (some members here without aero have hit 160+!!) and a flat infield track with a number of concrete and tire barriers.
I was one of the few who had not run here before; during my first practice session I was about 10 seconds off of the next fastest car's time in-class, I made that all up and then some in qualifying about an hour later. My fastest times of the weekend were on R7s instead of A7s, but a lot of that had to do with caution flags being thrown or traffic being in the way.
Here is my best lap from the weekend:
The local SoCal guys were basically eating our lunch all weekend long, but those of us that made the trip from Arizona had similar laptimes and were mainly racing each other (out-of-class). Here is a video from Saturday dicing it up with my buddy's PWC Maserati. We spent about half of this race under full-course-caution due to crashes or breakdowns.
On Sunday my transmission got noticeably difficult to shift into 4th, 5th and reverse, and downshifts into third were becoming a total grind-fest. The transmission managed to hold together for the remainder of the weekend, but either the slave is failing or I have bent forks/missing pads in the trans. I did get a spare while I was out there, so that will be going in along with a fresh slave before the August TMO event.
Here is Sunday's race. I was cautious at the start and was catching up to the other cars in my class during the race, but I got trapped behind lap traffic when they threw a local caution on the banking. The rest of my class left me in the dust as I was stuck behind the slower car
Overall it was a very intimidating track. I would like to go back because I think there is definitely more to learn, but I wouldn't put this track on anyone's Bucket List.
The car was great (other than the transmission issues). The Brembo/PAE/FTBR race brake setup was unflappable and had no problem hauling the car down from 140+ lap after lap after lap, and hardly any pad was consumed front or rear. I couldn't necessarily tell a difference w/ the Blowfish MC brace installed, but my pedal was always firm and consistent. The engine was great and no issues with oiling (lowest pressure was 70psi) even with the extended cornering or banking, and no issues with oil or engine cooling. Lots of time spent above 7000 RPM.
I managed to beat my AZ competitor on Saturday, but he beat me on Sunday. As a result, I'm still in the lead for my regional championship in AZ, but still at tight margin of only 10 points separates us (465 vs. 455).
It's going to be a fight to the finish this year--but I should have some other cars in class for the last race of the season that will help even that spread out in my favor.
See you all in August at Sonoma and Thunderhill!!
OK this was my first time heading to Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, California.
This is a Roval with speeds over 150mph on the banking (some members here without aero have hit 160+!!) and a flat infield track with a number of concrete and tire barriers.
I was one of the few who had not run here before; during my first practice session I was about 10 seconds off of the next fastest car's time in-class, I made that all up and then some in qualifying about an hour later. My fastest times of the weekend were on R7s instead of A7s, but a lot of that had to do with caution flags being thrown or traffic being in the way.
Here is my best lap from the weekend:
The local SoCal guys were basically eating our lunch all weekend long, but those of us that made the trip from Arizona had similar laptimes and were mainly racing each other (out-of-class). Here is a video from Saturday dicing it up with my buddy's PWC Maserati. We spent about half of this race under full-course-caution due to crashes or breakdowns.
On Sunday my transmission got noticeably difficult to shift into 4th, 5th and reverse, and downshifts into third were becoming a total grind-fest. The transmission managed to hold together for the remainder of the weekend, but either the slave is failing or I have bent forks/missing pads in the trans. I did get a spare while I was out there, so that will be going in along with a fresh slave before the August TMO event.
Here is Sunday's race. I was cautious at the start and was catching up to the other cars in my class during the race, but I got trapped behind lap traffic when they threw a local caution on the banking. The rest of my class left me in the dust as I was stuck behind the slower car
Overall it was a very intimidating track. I would like to go back because I think there is definitely more to learn, but I wouldn't put this track on anyone's Bucket List.
The car was great (other than the transmission issues). The Brembo/PAE/FTBR race brake setup was unflappable and had no problem hauling the car down from 140+ lap after lap after lap, and hardly any pad was consumed front or rear. I couldn't necessarily tell a difference w/ the Blowfish MC brace installed, but my pedal was always firm and consistent. The engine was great and no issues with oiling (lowest pressure was 70psi) even with the extended cornering or banking, and no issues with oil or engine cooling. Lots of time spent above 7000 RPM.
I managed to beat my AZ competitor on Saturday, but he beat me on Sunday. As a result, I'm still in the lead for my regional championship in AZ, but still at tight margin of only 10 points separates us (465 vs. 455).
It's going to be a fight to the finish this year--but I should have some other cars in class for the last race of the season that will help even that spread out in my favor.
See you all in August at Sonoma and Thunderhill!!
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302 Hi Pro
Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
Drew, will you at some point upgrade to the new S550 platform Mustangs? Perhaps a GT350 TP or the R version?
Good luck this year in your points race to first place.
Dave
2HP
Good luck this year in your points race to first place.
Dave
2HP
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