Boss Transmission/Clutch Issues Poll Discussion Thread

[VoodooBoss]

Here's my take on the current situation. There are really three issues with the clutch/transmission: clutch sticking to the floor and getting soft, shifting lock out, and transmissions breaking.

Clutch Sticking - It's clear to me the SS clutch line does nothing to solve this situation. There have been many of us that bought into this, including me, and it didn't do anything. In fact for me I didn't ever have my clutch stick to the floor until AFTER I installed the JHR SS clutch line. I know some think this helps, I doubt it hurts, but trust me it is not going to solve any clutch issues. The reason why Ford Racing sells their SS line is so cars that install headers don't melt the stock line.

I had hoped installing an aftermarket clutch would solve this issue. It doesn't. So what's left. Removing the clutch pedal helper spring did stop mine from sticking while tracking my car. IMO the spring is not the problem and is a band aid fix. I'm not willing to even call it a fix until I have a couple of more track days with it out and not sticking. But I'm optimistic I won't have this issue again. So what's really causing the pedal to stick? I think it's a combination of the hydraulics, slave cylinder and poor design of the pedal. The stock clutch could also be a problem. Could it be the fluid boiling in the slave? Maybe. I suspect Ford knows and I wish they would share a solution with us. It only happens to me at high RPM's usually above 7,000 and while tracking my car. I did have the clutch pedal stick when my car was not hot so I'm suspect of the fluid boiling being an issue.

Shifting Lock Out - I've had shifting lock out since my first track day and it has gotten progressively worse as I push the car harder. When this started happening more frequently I installed the SS clutch line and then the MGW shifter. Neither of these items helped at all. So what's causing the lock out issues? I think it's a combination of the stock clutch not fully releasing at high RPM's. This allows you to get the car out of gear but not into the next gear. After replacing my stock clutch with an aftermarket clutch I did not have any lock out issues in the two sessions I ran. In fact other than the pedal sticking I didn't miss a single shift and that's a first for me. So did the aftermarket clutch fix the shifting lock out? Stay tuned.

Another contributor to lock out is movement between the trans, shifter, and chassis. While an aftermarket shifter will help with this it's not a guaranteed fix. There have been too many of us that have installed the MGW and still had shifting lock out. There are lots of ways to stiffen this up but many are not practical if you are still driving your Boss on the street. The new Whiteline trans bracket might help so look for an update on this from other members that install one. If I still have lock out issues I'll be trying one.

Transmission Failures - These failures seem widespread but aren't. Sure there have been failures, mostly 5th and 6th syncros, but I wonder how many transmissions have been ruined by the clutch sticking to the floor and shifting lock out? I think several at a minimum.

For those that think the GT500 transmission is the solution good luck. No doubt it's design specs can handle more torque than the MT82 but it's had plenty of issues in the GT500 as well. Go check over at SVT and do a little research. It's also a costly swap. I doubt I'll ever make the swap but please post up if you do.

While there certainly seems like there have been a lot of transmission breaking I really don't think this is a widespread problem and I think many of those failures were caused by the other two problems.

So to review what issues I've had and what I've done:

Started having lock out issues that became very obvious last Summer. I had previously installed Redline MTL in my transmission. The first thing I did was install the JHR SS clutch line. Up to this time I've had a soft clutch pedal a couple of times. After installing the clutch line I started having my clutch pedal stick to the floor and lock out become more consistent. Then I installed the MGW shifter and nothing changed.

My Ford dealer pulled the trans to inspect the clutch per Ford's direction twice and found no issues and put it all back together with stock parts. So thinking an aftermarket clutch would solve both problems I installed a McLeod RXT dual disc ceramic clutch two weeks ago. A week later I had a track day and my clutch pedal stuck to the floor again. I removed the clutch pedal helper spring and my clutch did not stick to the floor during my final two track sessions. During those sessions I did not have shifting lock out and I was shifting at redline. BTW the temps that afternoon at the track were 90+.

Anyway I wish there were clear solutions to our issues. I hope to at least eliminate shifting lock out with my aftermarket clutch.

Ford I hope you're reading this.

 

[Bloodykisses]

Very good post.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Very good post.

I was hoping I could report that the clutch, which wasn't cheap, fixed all the issues. it didn't.

 

[Fat Boss]

Great post Rick.

Who out there has the where-with-all to make a precision sheet metal template that can be slid on the block dowel pins (they still do those right???) and checked with a dial indicator, and separately indexed to the trans to see if the alignment between the two could be the issue?

C'mon someone out there can do this. My working theory is we have a slight mis-match (greater than about 3 or 4 thousandths) between the engine and trans. Sherlock Holmes would be ruling stuff out left and right and this is one of the things left. I think the clutch disk could be binding on the splines.

 

[unrealford]

Great post and I agree, I hope Ford is reading this and taking it serious, why let a great car be shadowed by dissapointment because of the transmission.
If the aftermarket clutch is a fix, I wish Ford would help us out with a replacement with high quality piece.

 

[Fat Boss]

A seriously important data point is my old car # 733. It worked perfectly. The clutch NEVER stayed on the floor despite hundreds of redline full throttle shifts on and off the track. The transmission NEVER suffered from "lockout." I missed 3rd about 3 times in 26k miles and 10 track days. Those facts can't be ignored. The design, if every part was made the way mine was, works great. But what if mine was a deviation from the true spec and happened to work great?? That's a scary thought.

The best things we can do is continue to look for common traits, start measuring things, and share experiences in terms of how bad it was and how well your new setup works- whatever it is.

 

[zzyzx]

Great post, Rick and sorry to hear that your issue is unresolved after the expense involved. Frustrating to say the least.

Clutch Sticking
Could it be the fluid boiling in the slave?

I have repeatedly ruled this out through testing. This issue is not heat dependent.

Here's a simple test that rules out heat and will tell you if you have something to worry about:

With the engine up to temps, press lightly on the clutch pedal so your foot has some load on it. Now, simply rev your engine up to 6k RPM. If you feel the pedal pressure decrease significantly, then you likely have the issue that will lead to a problem in high RPM usage.

I think at this point, I'm nearly convinced the primary culprit is the slave cylinder. I believe it is in fact the part that at high RPM "sticks" and won't let the force of the pressure plate release and push the pedal back up. The return spring only exacerbates the issue because it's a force in the opposite (wrong) direction.

Had I planned better, I would have replaced the slave cylinder with the Exedy replacement to match my Exedy clutch & flywheel.

I think anybody going to the expense of replacing the clutch/flywheel should try an Exedy slave cylinder. It's the only aftermarket slave cylinder I know of for the Boss.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Great post, Rick and sorry to hear that your issue is unresolved after the expense involved. Frustrating to say the least.

I have repeatedly ruled this out through testing. This issue is not heat dependent.

Here's a simple test that rules out heat and will tell you if you have something to worry about:

With the engine up to temps, press lightly on the clutch pedal so your foot has some load on it. Now, simply rev your engine up to 6k RPM. If you feel the pedal pressure decrease significantly, then you likely have the issue that will lead to a problem in high RPM usage.

I think at this point, I'm nearly convinced the primary culprit is the slave cylinder. I believe it is in fact the part that at high RPM "sticks" and won't let the force of the pressure plate release and push the pedal back up. The return spring only exacerbates the issue because it's a force in the opposite (wrong) direction.

Had I planned better, I would have replaced the slave cylinder with the Exedy replacement to match my Exedy clutch & flywheel.

I think anybody going to the expense of replacing the clutch/flywheel should try an Exedy slave cylinder. It's the only aftermarket slave cylinder I know of for the Boss.

I don't know if that's right or not but seems logical to me. I'm not convinced it's hear related either although heat won't help any. At a track day in April my first track session was after my car sat for 2.5 hours and it was 55 degrees outside with a 30 MPH wind. My first lap was under yellow and on my second lap my clutch stuck at 7,000+ RPM's. There's no way I boiled the fluid in one hot lap. That was after a complete flush of the hydraulic system too.

 

[Boomerstoys]

Great post Rick. I've had my clutch and transmission replaced by Ford and haven't yet had the car on a track where I could get into 5th gear, so I'm not sure if my new transmission has fixed my issue of lock out. To date, I have not had the clutch pedal stick to the floor so I can't comment on that issue.

I've responded to a "customer satisfaction survey" from Ford expressing my concern about the safety issue the "lock out" presents to anyone tracking their car. If lucky, no issue! If not so lucky, you blow the motor or create some other mechanical issue. If truly unlucky, you create a injurious situation, not only for the driver, but for anyone else on the track in close proximity to you when this failure occurs.

I've received a letter, called as instructed, and now waiting for additional contact to follow up. My dealer and the field service engineer have been great to work with but as I told Ford, I have lost confidence in driving the car at speed. Having this problem in the back of your mind when on track is not a good thing. You need to be confident that the car will perform as expected and not "increase" the risk you are already taking with a track event. I have yet to take the car on track since driving Laguna Seca last year. I've had track days but used my other car since I'm just concerned about the "lock out" going to 5th and more importantly downshifting from 5th to 4th.

I'm not an engineer, but to me it seems it's an alignment issue. When under extreme load, the chassis, engine, clutch, and transmission "twist" enough to knock things out of alignment which prevents upshifts and downshifts from occurring under these conditions. The replacement clutches, transmissions, pedal assemblies, while quality units, don't address this issue. Motor and transmission mounts may be a solution to the lock out problem. I'd be willing to live with increased NVH if this attempt at a fix actually would work. Has anyone replaced all the motor & transmission mounts?

I know my original clutch was out of spec but I haven't a clue, what if anything was found with the transmission. Ford hasn't relayed that info to my dealer. Sure hope a solution is found soon.

Cheers!

 

[Domestic Product]

My transmission update, I purchased my 2012 Boss pre-owned with about 7,500 miles on it , Nov 2013. Was in perfect condition and showed like new. Took a chance and bought it with no knowledge of how it was driven before me.
Being winter I drove the car very little. Shifting was unpredictable and I would miss shifts , thought it was just me getting used to the car. Clutch felt disconnected some what, (like my old BMW 540 with clutch delay valve).
One rare dry sunny weekend( live in the Seattle area) I had the car out on a open curvy country road having a great time and then I noticed my cel on.
Into the dealer, in fixing the cel the tech drove my car home for the night. I told him to drive it hard (I know him). So the cel did not come back but he experienced bad shifts and odd behavior from the transmission including 5th gear grinding bad. So he got with Ford and they decided to rebuild my transmission vs. replacing as the tech wanted. He says that Ford wanted him to tear into it to try and find out what was going wrong.
Fast forward about two and a half weeks latter and I have a new rebuilt transmission. Three pages of parts, looks like he replaced pretty much everything. At the end his comments,
"Verified customer statement that 5th gear cant be shifted with out grinding and grinds 3rd and 2nd as well. Removed transmission, tear down. Found scores on the main shaft as well as syncro and gear damage at 2,3,4,and 5. Did cost cap repair, rebuilt transmission. Inspected clutch and found chipping and cracking on edge of disk with abnormal wear on the pressure plate and flywheel."
At the same time I went ahead and put in a after market clutch good for 800hp, a lightened steel fly wheel, a new stainless steel clutch line and a Ford racing shift kit.
Picked the car up and have been driving around just breaking in the clutch. Found the clutch hard to drive, found the shift kit to be a joy, super short and precise.
So after a few days of driving around like a 16 year old learning to drive a stick. I pulled the clutch assist spring. Immediately the clutch was right as I engaged for the first time.
Went for a drive and for the first time in the car I felt connected and at the same time not thinking about the clutch. As in starting on a hill.
So while I have not tracked the car yet to really see if all is well at 8,000 rpm. It drives for me like it should have from the factory. IMO I think that the problems that this transmission has in its performance are from not one part. But partial failures of many parts its a system failure. So I will add motor mounts and transmission mounts to the list.

 

[Justin]

I have the BBR motor mounts in my boss and they made a noticeable difference in how it shifts.

I have yet to see an aftermarket trans mount. if you know of one post a link I will buy it for sure.

 

[Boomerstoys]

Justin, where did you order your motor mounts from? Do you notice any "significant" increase in NVH?

The only thing I've seen is that replacement bushing for the tranny. It's mentioned by someone in this thread.

Someone has to make these and I wonder if the 302S or 302R have different mounts for both engine & transmission.

Cheers!

 

[Justin]

I bought it from blow by racing.
http://www.blowbyracing.com/bbradmomo.html

 

[jim woodruff]

My transmission update, I purchased my 2012 Boss pre-owned with about 7,500 miles on it , Nov 2013. Was in perfect condition and showed like new. Took a chance and bought it with no knowledge of how it was driven before me.
Being winter I drove the car very little. Shifting was unpredictable and I would miss shifts , thought it was just me getting used to the car. Clutch felt disconnected some what, (like my old BMW 540 with clutch delay valve).
One rare dry sunny weekend( live in the Seattle area) I had the car out on a open curvy country road having a great time and then I noticed my cel on.
Into the dealer, in fixing the cel the tech drove my car home for the night. I told him to drive it hard (I know him). So the cel did not come back but he experienced bad shifts and odd behavior from the transmission including 5th gear grinding bad. So he got with Ford and they decided to rebuild my transmission vs. replacing as the tech wanted. He says that Ford wanted him to tear into it to try and find out what was going wrong.
Fast forward about two and a half weeks latter and I have a new rebuilt transmission. Three pages of parts, looks like he replaced pretty much everything. At the end his comments,
"Verified customer statement that 5th gear cant be shifted with out grinding and grinds 3rd and 2nd as well. Removed transmission, tear down. Found scores on the main shaft as well as syncro and gear damage at 2,3,4,and 5. Did cost cap repair, rebuilt transmission. Inspected clutch and found chipping and cracking on edge of disk with abnormal wear on the pressure plate and flywheel."
At the same time I went ahead and put in a after market clutch good for 800hp, a lightened steel fly wheel, a new stainless steel clutch line and a Ford racing shift kit.
Picked the car up and have been driving around just breaking in the clutch. Found the clutch hard to drive, found the shift kit to be a joy, super short and precise.
So after a few days of driving around like a 16 year old learning to drive a stick. I pulled the clutch assist spring. Immediately the clutch was right as I engaged for the first time.
Went for a drive and for the first time in the car I felt connected and at the same time not thinking about the clutch. As in starting on a hill.
So while I have not tracked the car yet to really see if all is well at 8,000 rpm. It drives for me like it should have from the factory. IMO I think that the problems that this transmission has in its performance are from not one part. But partial failures of many parts its a system failure. So I will add motor mounts and transmission mounts to the list.

Well add me to the list my LS will not going into sixth gear. The dealer is pulling the trans today .

 

[VoodooBoss]

Well add me to the list my LS will not going into sixth gear. The dealer is pulling the trans today .

Bummer. You've had a lot of bad luck with your Boss.

 

[Justin]

Bummer. You've had a lot of bad luck with your Boss.

speaking off I am happy all I have had to deal with is a bum clutch. knock on wood.

 

[unrealford]

Dont want to jinx myself but so far I haven't had anything go wrong , but I have less then 5,000 miles

 

[jim woodruff]

Dont want to jinx myself but so far I haven't had anything go wrong , but I have less then 5,000 miles

I only have 3600 miles on my LS .All but 500 are track. The dealer and Ford are great to work with but this is getting old. What do you guy,s and gals think about the exteneded warranty? If I keep the car i am thinking about it. Lets start a new thread.

 

[Domestic Product]

I only have 3600 miles on my LS .All but 500 are track. The dealer and Ford are great to work with but this is getting old. What do you guy,s and gals think about the exteneded warranty? If I keep the car i am thinking about it. Lets start a new thread.

Sorry you are having the transmission gremlins. Yes Ford in my experience has been great to work with. But I agree we have new cars, they should not be having these problems.
I would advise to get Ford to replace or rebuild and up grade the clutch at the same time as well as the other weak points. My clutch, flywheel, clutch line and shift kit were $1,500 or so and they installed them with the transmission rebuild for free. I think the car is worth some $ thrown its way to make right what Ford missed.
I called into Ford for the extended warranty and was told that if we have the track key or any modifications that we do not qualify.
It is a shame that we have to question if we want to keep these cars because of the problems they are having. I thought when I bought the Boss I was so lucky to have it and would keep it for ever.
I do not feel that way anymore. I still love the car and every time I drive it , it puts a smile on my face. Post warranty maybe not so much.

 

[unrealford]

There's a few post on the forum here about extended warranty with info straight from Ford. I have extended warranty from Ford with trackey
7 yrs/50,000miles