Brembo Racing Brakes

[PAEracing]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to check and see what kind of brakes everyone is using for their track/street cars or their race cars and why?

I personally use Brembo's, but was curious on what people's reasoning for running other types were. I'm a dealer for selling Brembo's if anyone has any questions on getting a set. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk some.

Brian at Paul's Automotive Engineering.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

The Brembo race kit I just ordered for my BOSS race car came from PAE--these guys were very helpful and pleasant to deal with. @DG#56 got his setup there as well.
Buy with confidence!

 

[SCGT500]

I've searched for different front pads for a 2015 Mustang GT w Brembo 6 piston package and come up w nothing? Since you say you deal through Brembo, do you have some pad options for track use?

 

[steveespo]

I've searched for different front pads for a 2015 Mustang GT w Brembo 6 piston package and come up w nothing? Since you say you deal through Brembo, do you have some pad options for track use?

Post a picture of the OEM pad, with better yet measure it, pin hole to pin hole, overall width and height. If it is the same or similar to the previous 6 piston Brembo shape on the '13-'14 GT 500s then Carbotech can make a range of compounds for it. Many brake companies will also reline stock backing plates if you send them OEM pads.
Steve

 

[Paul@PAE]

Thanks Drew,
We have been building and supporting track and road race Mustangs for over 25 years (8 NASA AI and AIX National Championships) and have learned (the hard way) that your brake system is the most important system on the car. On a continual basis it requires the most attention and yet pays the greatest dividends, and the faster you go the more this applies.
We have used multiple brands of brakes over the years, and while they all will stop the car the first few times, all racers need them to stop equally well entering the last corner of the last lap every weekend.
PAE worked with Brembo North America starting in late 2007 helping them develop and test (on our 700+ RWHP AIX car) what turned into the original 14" Grand Am brake package, which is still on my AIX car.
Once we installed these brakes we were amazed that on race weekends we were able to focus on the car's set up, with out a thought about the brakes. We never even have to bleed them on a typical 3 day race weekend, running AIX, TTU and Friday testing.
Although expensive we can honestly say that the Brembo race brakes have been the best money/value spent on our cars.
A couple of lessons learned,
Use at least a 4" brake duct to the rotor (sealed). We use a 4" aluminum 90 degree elbow with brake hose on either side to smoothly transition the air to the inside of the rotor.
Our 2014 car required an additional 3" hose to keep the caliper temps under 400 F (3400# car 180+ MPH).
Our 2015 seems to be working well with just a 4" hose (3150#, 180+ MPH).
We have had great luck with the Castrol SRF fluid. Although the SRF is expensive our post race service uses less than 8 oz. to flush the old fluid out of the calipers (4), and we are race ready again.
We inspect the pads and rotate them as the insides tend to run hotter and wear a little more, extending their life.
These calipers take a 26+ mm thick pad, and although they are good down to the end, we will take an old set and have the backing plates ground down and use them as a spacer. This keeps the pistons deeper in their bores and more stable.
Most of the time our throw away pads are still thicker than new pads from a stock Boss 302.

On the stock 2015 6 piston pads I will check as well.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Paul, thanks for that info, and good point about rotating pads.

 

[ls110]

We inspect the pads and rotate them as the insides tend to run hotter and wear a little more, extending their life.
These calipers take a 26+ mm thick pad, and although they are good down to the end, we will take an old set and have the backing plates ground down and use them as a spacer. This keeps the pistons deeper in their bores and more stable.

I am using the Brembo racing calipers as well and was glad I made the change. When you say you rotate the pads, are you just rotating from inside to outside within the same caliper? I see some uneven wear and maybe this would help with that.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Paul, welcome to TMO. Can you please post a photo of your brake cooling setup?

 

[Paul@PAE]

Usually we swap the inner pads side to side.

Here are a couple of pictures of my 65's 4" brake ducts with the aluminum elbow





Here is a picture of my 65, Brian's 15, and a friends 66 Coyote swap at Mid Ohio this past summer.

 

[2012-Boss]

Paul,

I have several questions concerning the Brembo brake upgrades. I thought I would ask them here so everyone could benefit from the responses.

What is the approximate pricing for the Brembo Pro Series 14" and 15" brake kits?

What are the key differences between the 14" and 15" kits?

How well do the brake kits work with a stock GT/Boss master cylinder and booster?

Are any changes needed or recommended to the rear brakes to maintain front to rear brake balance?

Are there any other considerations that should be taken into account as part of the swap / upgrade?

Thanks, I appreciate any information you are willing to share.

 

[Paul@PAE]

First of all there are multiple option for either the 14" or 15" kits.
Starting with the calipers.
The original 14" Grand Am kits (about 2008) used the XA2E703/04 caliper, 38mm-42mm, 63 sq cm pad area. It is radial mount at 130mm spacing.
It is still a very good caliper but does not have heat insulating piston caps, and is limited to max 14" rotor. I still run these on my 65 but with titanium insulating piston caps.

The Grand Am Continental GS package (2013) uses the XB10511/12 caliper, 38mm-42mm, 65 sq mm pad area, and 77 sq mm for wide annulus endurance rotors, it is also radial mount at 190mm spacing.
It is an updated caliper with steel heat insulating piston caps and works with either 14" or 15" rotors.

There are multiple rotor options. There are (2) popular 14" rotors, 48 and 72 vane, there are at least (5) 15" rotors, (3) standard annulus 32-35mm thick, and (2) wide annulus 32-34mm thick.

I generally recommend the 380-35mm heavy duty rotor to start.

If your rear brakes are stock I would recommend the 14" kit with the XB10511/12 caliper. This allows the ability to upgrade to 15" down the road when the rears are upgraded.

The 15" set up is recommended if your rears have been upgraded.

These combinations work well with the factory master/booster.

We run manual dual master cylinders in our cars.

Hope this helps. PM me for pricing.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Cross-post from my build thread, FWIW:

Update on braking performance with the new 380mm pro kit from PAE in the front and FTBR 13" kit in the rear:

AIM GPS data says I've picked up almost 0.30g of decel for the same pedal input. -0.73 before and -1.03 after. (Blue and green traces are new kit, red trace is stock brembos and rears). Comparing blue and red traces (pedal pressure roughly the same at this point).

 

[Budget Boss]

Drew,

How is the FTBR 13" kit in the rear holding up? Do you find that there is any flex in that set up? Speaking with Jason and Terry, at Vorshlag, they recommend the GT 500 rear brake upgrade and don't like the FTBR set up and mentioned flex as a potential problem. Do you find that there is any flex in that set up? Thank in advance for your answers.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Jamie:

I've only raced with it on the car for one event but at a fairly brake-intensive track without any issues. Pad wear looks even, nothing indicative of flex or twist in the adapter bracket.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

@BigTaco

 

[BigTaco]

@BigTaco

Thanks!!!

 

[blacksheep-1]

Brembo, IMO is the only game in town...pads, a little more difficult to pin down depending on types of racing, and the driver's needs, much more complicated issue. I would suggest a company that is involved at the base level and provides excellent customer support. The fact that someone has taken the time to post on here is a great start.

 

[2012-Boss]

I worked with Paul and PAE this summer to put together a full Grand Am package for my car. While not inexpensive, Paul was very competitive especially when you consider you need other non-Brembo items such as brake lines, fittings, and pads. More importantly, Paul not only addressed questions I posted earlier this year on the board, but offline made sure that the components in the package meet my needs.

I am quite pleased with the overall performance of the kit which consists of the Brembo 15" front brakes, GT500 rears, and Ford Racing ABS controller.

My first event out with the new setup was at Watkins Glen for a Chin track day with Voodoo Child21 and PeteInCT over Labor Day. The Brembo brakes were flawless and inspired a lot more confidence to go deeper into the brake zone. I no longer experienced a hardening pedal towards the end of a session and the required brake pedal effort to achieve threshold braking is significantly reduced. I also noted very little pad wear and minimal rotor wear. The car consistently generates 1.1G in braking on Continental slicks. At this point, the tires are the limiting factor in braking.

While not a humorous incident, I came up behind a Chin instructor in an Aerial Atom going into the heel of the boot brake zone fast enough that he drove off the track well into the paved runoff area. Steve Esposito spoke with the instructor after the session and he thought I had completely lost my brakes not realizing that I could now go well inside the #2 marker before braking.

I have dealt a half dozen of the big name race shops experienced with the S197 Mustang. Only two have truly had exemplary customer service in answering questions concerning my specific needs. PAE is one of those two shops.

Finally, thank you to ArizonaBoss for his offline advice, sharing his thoughts on the brakes kit, and recommending I talk to PAE.

 

[captdistraction]

Does anyone have a lot of input on the 14" club kit versus the 15" club kit? the prices vary quite a bit, this is something I'm trying to work into the budget for 2017. I know the fast guys are mostly running the 15" kit

I briefly flirted with running 13/14 GT500 6 pots on the car, but compatibility with 18" wheels was a problem.

 

[Paul@PAE]

To start, the 14" Grand Am package is a very good set up and we have run it on a lot of very fast cars.
For not much more money (in the big scope of things) the 15" kit will give you 35mm thick rotors (which will last longer), and updated calipers (which are stronger).
Also there are multiple rotor options including the wide annulus endurance rotors, as well as lighter weight versions that might work better on specific tracks.
These calipers will accept the pad for the narrow annulus 35mm thick rotors (Hawk HB130) as well as the wide annulus pad (Hawk HB221).
Our experience has been that in the long run the 15" kit will not cost more than the 14" kit.