The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

Dry Sump?

Basically, a dry sump oil system keeps the oil in a holding tank away from the motor in a pressurized pump driven system. In a "wet sump" system like most cars (including ours), the oil sits in the bottom of the oil pan, held by gravity and is kicked up and sloshed around. During tight cornering, that oil can shift and alter the pressure in the motor reducing HP and creating a bogging affect (and increased wear and tear). This would be most prominent in higher G situations like racing.

The dry sump model only keeps the amount of oil in the motor as is necessary and thus reduces the weight inside the motor and the need for a large pan, allowing the motor to be lowered (which has its own beneficial properties). It is also constantly moving the oil in and out better than a wet sump.

Also, the dry sump holding tank can hold as much oil as you want allowing for better cooling and lower degradation over time, and be located away from heat sources (e.g. the trunk). All beneficial things to the motor. The only drawback to dry sump systems are complexity and cost.
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
never seen anyone with one so i'm of no value to the question, but I have to wonder where you would even place the tank? I am fairly certain you need a high capacity tank to allow time and space for the oil to de-aerate. only place I can think to put it is where the battery sits now (obviously with a relocation kit), but that seems like a bad place to have a fairly high concentration of sloshing weight?
 
pufferfish said:
never seen anyone with one so i'm of no value to the question, but I have to wonder where you would even place the tank? I am fairly certain you need a high capacity tank to allow time and space for the oil to de-aerate. only place I can think to put it is where the battery sits now (obviously with a relocation kit), but that seems like a bad place to have a fairly high concentration of sloshing weight?

Some of the AI cars I've seen have the tank where the rear seats were on one side. I'd probably put it on the passenger side for weight balance.

Maybe I'll hire your shop to "figure it out" for me Steve. All the parts are readily available.
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
Not positive, but I dont think AI can have a dry sump. AIX can have them for sure.

I am always up for an engineering challenge and even more so when it's not on my dime ;D come on over...and bring a credit card!
 
pufferfish said:
Not positive, but I dont think AI can have a dry sump. AIX can have them for sure.

I am always up for an engineering challenge and even more so when it's not on my dime ;D come on over...and bring a credit card!

Yeah, AIX i meant. I'll be in touch on this!
 
1,444
360
Darren what series are you racing in? Are there any rules or regulations on using a wet vs dry sump?
 
Fat Boss said:
Darren what series are you racing in? Are there any rules or regulations on using a wet vs dry sump?

I'm still in pre-comp school but will go into NASA AIX ( American Iron Extreme ) next season.
There are rules but generally AIX is an unlimited class. Have to use readily available parts though.
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
Moderator
3,754
1,229
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
NY Metro
Are there any 4.6 Dry sump systems out there? The reason I ask is you need to set up an external pump with pressure and scavange sections which need either a belt or gear drive. The easiest place for that would be to replace the A/C compressor and have a bracket made. Pumps and hoses are readily available new or used, there is tons of used NASCAR stuff for sale dirt cheap. The oil pan will have to be custom made as you basically eliminate the sump. This also should not be hard as the stock pan gasket is a good windage/crank scraper. An oil gallery manifold would have to be used at the oil pressure filter location which I think the blank is available from Ford Racing to create the manifold and remote oil filter setup.

All of this is doable but I question whether the expense is worth it for the gain in a short endurance race.
If for the design discussion.
Steve
 
Good points Steve. The short races normally would make this system not as useful but i was considering its cooling benefits for supercharged applications too. And the east coast summer heat is brutal as you know. A time trialer stock C5 blew its motor and dumped its oil at VIR last month and my session blew threw the kitty litter on the front straight creating a huge dust plume. From there....got me thinking....lol

All the parts are easily gotten off drysump.com and/or chicane23
 
pufferfish said:
I didn't see a pan on that site. did I miss it?

Here are some:

http://www.drysump.com/Ford5.0mustang.htm
http://www.drysump.com/fordpan.htm

But his home page menu to the Ford stuff is broken so I had to go through G**gle.
 
401
0
DGRacing, these pans you posted, are what is going to replace the oil pan currently on the Boss? What reservoir will hold the rest of the oil? Why has Ford decided to just increase the size of the oil pan for their racing program?
 
The oil in a dry sump would come from an external reservoir. Could hold any amount of oil actually. Fords cars have to follow grand am rules etc. So probably requires wet sump still.
 
I don't know if the oil pan on dry sump.com is for a coyote 5.0 or a pushrod 5.0.

Here is a possibility.
http://www.proweldperformanceparts.com/id75.html

If you do get a dry sump setup PLEASE post photos.

Edit:I don't want to go too off topic, but do you think you wouldn't be able to get your horsepower goal with a high compression built engine, dry sump, individual throttle bodies, big cams, and a free flowing exhaust. There is a shop out of Australia that is making 600+ HP NA with individual throttle bodies that they are developing.
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
DGRacing said:
Here are some:

http://www.drysump.com/Ford5.0mustang.htm
http://www.drysump.com/fordpan.htm

But his home page menu to the Ford stuff is broken so I had to go through G**gle.
that 5.0 pan is for the old pushrod engines. I recognize that pan rail shape anywhere!

I saw they have one for 4.6 modular. I wonder if it would work? the 5.0 and 4.6 are a similar architecture, just not sure how similar?
 
pufferfish said:
that 5.0 pan is for the old pushrod engines. I recognize that pan rail shape anywhere!

I saw they have one for 4.6 modular. I wonder if it would work? the 5.0 and 4.6 are a similar architecture, just not sure how similar?

I think the complete system can be found here:
http://www.proweldperformanceparts.com/id75.html

I emailed the folks there to verify it works with our 4v 5.0L and it does. Check out that "griddle" oil pan. Only 3" tall. lol
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Top