factory alignment is chewing up tires

Discussion in 'Suspension and Chassis' started by GT350-H6088, May 20, 2019.

  1. GT350-H6088

    GT350-H6088 TMO Intermediate

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    I only make it to the track 4 or 5 times a year, a majority of the time is street.

    I am looking for a setup that would make it easy to switch the Camber to track / street

    Here is my Alignment

    [​IMG]

    My Left Front Tire 15K miles...
    [​IMG]
     
  2. VoodooBoss

    VoodooBoss Rick Moderator

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    With track days I'm surprised you got 15K miles on those tires. Vorshlag or Maximum Motorsports CC plates are easy to adjust. @modernbeat
     
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  3. GT350-H6088

    GT350-H6088 TMO Intermediate

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    I am still a noob, my past racing experience was over 15 years Drag Racing, now I am older my reaction time is not what it used to be, so I am moving to road course, so my first year was not pushing it too hard, mostly getting used to the car.
     
  4. Randy Goins

    Randy Goins TMO Beginner

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    What tire pressure are you using, cold? I use 34 psi before any driving. 11 track days and 10k miles on cup 2's.....
     
  5. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    You guys are getting way more track days and street miles than the majority of folks I know! Heck, I have a few customers that have not made it to 11,000 miles with just street driving. Cup 2s are a DOT Comp Tire and I would be thrilled with the mileage you got Randy, personally. I got less than 2000 on my first set ( previous generation) with my Viper, driving to the track and running the Snake.

    H6088 , you definitely have some adjustments necessary on your alignment even without going to M&M or Vorschlag Camber Plates, imho.

    PS - as you noted you are just getting used to the car and not pushing it, so please keep in mind as you start ratcheting up your speed, expect even shorter life on your tires , even with a better alignment and camber plates. With speed comes more frequent tire purchases and it is just part of the necessary dance wear on a road circuit.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  6. barspen

    barspen TMO Advanced

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    Well put...with 4-5 track sessions and as you start pushing the car\tires, they will wear out quick. Getting a quality set of CC plates and a dedicated set of track wheel and tires is the only way to go. I was there a few years ago and just couldn't keep shelling out $$ as my street tires got shredded.
     
  7. DaveW

    DaveW TMO Intermediate

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    Is that the inside of the tire? That is because of that toe-out in the front.

    That alignment is pretty much a pile of junk for performance work. You desperately need more front camber if the stock adjustments will allow, ZERO front toe. Presumably there is no rear camber adjustment stock on a GT350? I have done several but they had mods. Anyway, if yes, then camber should be even. Toe is about right in the rear, but the OCD in me is twitching about it not being even. :)
     
  8. GT350-H6088

    GT350-H6088 TMO Intermediate

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    yes the inside of the right front tire, my concern was the toe on the right side, the wear is bad compared to the
    left one.
     
  9. GT350-H6088

    GT350-H6088 TMO Intermediate

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    same here
     
  10. DaveW

    DaveW TMO Intermediate

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    Just for curiosity, what does the other front tire look like on the inside? I have to think it is close to cording on the inside and the extra wear on the right is track related (more right turns or something)

    Individual toe per side is basically impossible to have in the front. It is *always* going to self center and the steering wheel will be crooked or the car will dogleg. (these would be tiny amounts on your car)

    You can easily run -2 to -3 degrees camber on a street car with very little extra tear wear *AS LONG AS* toe is kept at 0. Any toe out is always going to cause tire wear, and quickly.

    Get the car to a good alignment shop, max that front camber, get the right rear toe and equal, and set the front to zero and you will be much happier.

    DaveW
     
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  11. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    Do all this ( new alignment) after you get a new set of tires , those are likely shot , and as noted , you got more than your fair share of wear out of a maximum performance street tire . I would blame part of the wear on the alignment as noted, and who knows if a pothole or something else did not throw it off?

    Get the camber plates ordered soon and get installed prior to a new alignment. Tires can be purchased through the Tire Rack link on TMO, and that does help this
    site and it's operation.
     
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  12. modernbeat

    modernbeat TMO Advanced

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    Since I've been paged, but the other guys have really covered most of what I'd tell you, I'll sum it up.

    Factory recommended alignments are almost always crap. Even the "Ford Motorsports" alignment. They tend to recommend an alignment that can be achieved within the stock equipment, and with an eye towards saving the worst driver in the world. If you are competent, or have aftermarket equipment (which you should), you will want a better alignment.

    If you track the car at all, or even drive it aggressively on curvy roads, you WILL want camber plates. Otherwise you are using about half your front tire when the car needs it the most. And the tire wear bears this out, as they cord on the outside. With more static camber you can even out the wear, get a larger contact patch when it counts, balance the handling, and get more longevity from the tires. The bad side is you will spend $500 on a one-time purchase. The alternative is that you will spend $800 on front tires about three times more often than you should, and not get the performance that your car really has.

    If you run a lot of camber on the street, get the toe close to zero, with just the slimmest amount of toe-in. It's a little bit darty sometimes, but will reward you when you push it.

    Below are my initial alignment goals. I tend to go a little higher on front camber on the S550.

    Dedicated track use:
    front camber: -3° to -3.5°
    front caster: between 6-9°
    front toe: +1/8" total toe out
    rear camber: -2°
    rear toe: 1/8" total toe in

    Dual purpose or street use:

    front camber: around -1.5 to -2.5°)
    front caster: between 6-8°
    front toe: as close to 0 as you can get, to even a little toe in
    rear camber: -2°
    rear toe: 1/8" total toe in
     
  13. GT350-H6088

    GT350-H6088 TMO Intermediate

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    How do you know who is a "Good" Alignment shop, everyone's websites say they are the best..


    I tend to drive the curvy roads even if its a bit out of my way, I hate straight roads. :mad:

    this is my fun spot on the way to work, the bend at the top left is banked and I love this spot doing 90 :)
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    One easy way to check is ask if they can corner weight the car when doing the alignment? If they say yes, they likely are pretty damn good , but then doing that will be even more expensive. May be easiest just to ask your friends who are active in motorsports?

    Not trying to be your Dad , but having been in Automotive Sales for over 30 years ( 26 at one spot ), and having been active in SCCA or NASA for 38 years I can tell you I know of a lot of accidents with performance car drivers, occur on exit ramps. False sense of security that they are the only car going around the corner, but sand and dirt is hard to see at speed , and the next thing they know a guardrail or cement is their new friend. Looks fun , but I would save it for VIR or Summit Point, imho.
     
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  15. modernbeat

    modernbeat TMO Advanced

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    How do you know you've got a good alignment shop, aside from asking them, ask the local racers. Not the street racers, but the actual racers that you should be rubbing shoulders with at autocross and tack events. They will usually be happy to tell you what shop they use that provides good results.
     
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  16. GT350-H6088

    GT350-H6088 TMO Intermediate

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    no the drivers side tire looks like normal wear.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. GT350-H6088

    GT350-H6088 TMO Intermediate

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    Ya I know, I have been driving that same road at least 5 times a week for over 12 years..
    I am always careful.
     
  18. TMSBOSS

    TMSBOSS TMO Addict

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    Careful is good. Expecting grip to be equal each and every time is not careful.
    I have spun off track because a car threw dirt onto a sweeper and the track workers did not see to warn drivers in time. On the highway, no one is there to warn you.
    If you have to drive hard. Drive to the track first. At least there, professionals are on hand to pick up your pieces.
     
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  19. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    You have two Dads now, but your comment is exactly why I brought it up , as the majority of my customers who have wrecked their cars proved the adage that the majority of all accidents happen within 10-15 minutes of your house. Familiarity breeds false confidence , and saying you are careful ,but doing 90 mph on an enclosed highway curve lends your Boss-ee Dad to repeat Dad #2 --- go to the track , please! Now , both of your new Dads will be here to give you plenty of advice , so don't hold this against us , as we are old school and really do think of you as a fellow Mustang relative, so it is just our civic duty. Sermon over , and back to our regularly scheduled program -------

    Remember you said you were a newbie, so please take this as concerned advice from two guys who hope to see you at the track sometime?
     
  20. GT350-H6088

    GT350-H6088 TMO Intermediate

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    I agree with both of you, and that is why I got rid of my 2005 GT which I also drove on that turn, and it was setup for drag racing, and bought the GT350, to get to the track, and really push the car hard, I am not even getting close to that on that road. Today I was following a work van with ladders on top, taking that turn at 65..
    yesterday a mini van was doing 75... I think its the angle of the turn that makes people take it faster.
    what I like about it is entering the turn its flat, then turns to the right at a 8°, then as the turn in goes to the left the angle dips to the left and starts at 5° and increases to 15° at the apex, the turn out then starts to flatten out again.

    The Difference between the 2005 Mustang GT and the 2017 GT350 is that I never dragged raced on the street
    and it sucked at cornering. I took it to Virginia International Raceway, and it was all over the place in the turns. so having a car that can actually hold a turn is a dream.

    Bill Pemberton, All of my Family is in Omaha area, I was Born there as well, lived in Ralston.
    what track do you run at in Nebraska?
     

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