Fatality at Daytona this weekend.

[blacksheep-1]

Since I have a professional interest in this, after much soul searching I have decided to post this.
Basically there was a spin in turn 1, and after a couple of laps of yellow, another car collided with the parked car, killing the occupant.
So here's the take aways that we would discuss after a major incident.
Cause.
The Porsche blew a tire in the tri oval, during an international GT practice, scattering debris into turn 1 and coming to rest on the inside, basically at the end of pit lane.
Racing on banked tracks is very hard on tires, the extreme loading does not come into play anywhere else. These are a good place to have your act together mechanically as well. The last Daytona GS race EVERY Porsche blew tires, until they added pressure and took out camber. The BGB car finished 2nd or 3rd in the race. As most of you are aware, the bank at Homestead with its short radius makes me crazy, due to tire deg. Daytona is not near as bad, but it still comes into play.
Yellow flag,
The caution came out immediately, but the car was not in a position to be reached by turn marshalls, while ( this part is an assumption on my part) a decision was being made on how to recover the car several laps went by. Whether or not a red , or black flag all should be thrown might be controversial, the car was intact, the driver was apparently OK at this point, the drivers were aware of the problem, so time was not an issue. They simply needed a way to recover the.car safely.
After several laps another car came into the scene crashing into the parked car, killing the driver.
How and why this happened is completely unknown. There was conjecture that the other car tried to pass under the yellow, but this makes no sense, the track was under full course yellow at this point, and it was clear to all that a recovery operation was needed. Another thought was that the other car may have hit debris and cut a tire and this caused the secondary wreck. I'm not sure we'll ever know since the second car was also badly damaged.
Stay in your car.
The mention was made that the driver of the original car tried to get out of it under the long yellow. While this makes some sense, since the track was under yellow for a long period, and the track temp was over 100 degrees, maybe the driver thought it was a safe move. Again, we don't know the mind set, or for that matter that he actually tried to escape the car. I think that generally we all know that unless the car is on fire , you stay in the car until the marshalls get there.
None of this is to point fingers.
As with any incident from the Titanic to this one, a chain of events has to happen in a specific order, for the event to take place, remove or change the timeline, the event doesn't happen .
You can " what if" all day long, but in the end racing can be a deadly serious business, so play safe and have fun, but always keep safety in.mind.

 

[302BOB]

So sad to hear a life was lost and also SO needlessly...............cautions come out for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!!...........the driver of that car that hit the disabled car has A LOT of explaining to do......so sad!!!!!!!!..........................

 

[PatrickStapler]

May God bless him and his family...

 

[blacksheep-1]

@302BOB this isn't really about pointing blame, the second car may have hit debris going into the corner, under yellow cars are still going 70mph and a hit at that speed is still sginificant. I just think it is important to note all the little things that led up to the big one, which, if changed, could have resulted in a different outcome.

 

[PatrickStapler]

We recently had a member exit his vehicle...under only a corner yellow. The post race conversation was a educational moment for us all...unfortunately at his expense.

 

[JAJ]

At the tracks I run, nothing brings a full-course red flag faster than someone climbing out of their car when it's stuck in a gravel trap.

 

[TeeLew]

Just awful...

 

[Dave_W]

With a death, I'm guessing that there is some kind of police/coroner investigation, so that should at least look at things like the harness being buckled or not, helmet on, tire damage on the second car, review all available video, etc. You would normally think it would be classified as an accidental death, but a good investigation might weigh the circumstances to see if a charge like involuntary manslaughter could be applied. Not saying anything about this particular case, but just in general.

I was just thinking about this type of thing watching the Mexico F1 race and KMag's crash. He gets out of the car on his own, hops on top of a movable barrier, takes his helmet off and lies down, all with no marshall or safety worker to be seen. The car then catches fire, and there are still no marshalls for some time. It's a far cry from response of the IndyCar safety team, and something I had hoped F1 would have remedied after Grosjean's fiery crash. Keep the corner workers as a nicety to the host country, but have a dedicated, travelling saftey team with multiple vehicles stationed around the track, each one staffed with trauma medics and firefighters.

For anyone interested in the safety side of IndyCar, this is an excellent read -

Amazon.com

There's a movie made from the book, but I haven't seen it.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I have read that book, I was asked for input on NFPA 610. Every racer or track owner should be aware of that standard.

NFPA 610: Guide for Emergency and Safety Operations at Motorsports Venues

<p>1.1 Scope.</p> <p>This guide addresses planning, training, personnel, equipment, and facilities as they relate to emergency and safety operations at motorsports venues.</p>

www.nfpa.org

 

[Ludachris]

Be safe out there people.

 

[Fabman]

R.I.P to the driver and condolences to the team and family.
This is the sort of thing that makes me cringe at the fact that at HPDE and TT events allow cars on these tracks with no cages or roll bars....at all. This is serious business.
So sorry to hear about this, thank you for your sober chronical of the events.

 

[dchunk911]

Since I have a professional interest in this, after much soul searching I have decided to post this.
Basically there was a spin in turn 1, and after a couple of laps of yellow, another car collided with the parked car, killing the occupant.
So here's the take aways that we would discuss after a major incident.
Cause.
The Porsche blew a tire in the tri oval, during an international GT practice, scattering debris into turn 1 and coming to rest on the inside, basically at the end of pit lane.
Racing on banked tracks is very hard on tires, the extreme loading does not come into play anywhere else. These are a good place to have your act together mechanically as well. The last Daytona GS race EVERY Porsche blew tires, until they added pressure and took out camber. The BGB car finished 2nd or 3rd in the race. As most of you are aware, the bank at Homestead with its short radius makes me crazy, due to tire deg. Daytona is not near as bad, but it still comes into play.
Yellow flag,
The caution came out immediately, but the car was not in a position to be reached by turn marshalls, while ( this part is an assumption on my part) a decision was being made on how to recover the car several laps went by. Whether or not a red , or black flag all should be thrown might be controversial, the car was intact, the driver was apparently OK at this point, the drivers were aware of the problem, so time was not an issue. They simply needed a way to recover the.car safely.
After several laps another car came into the scene crashing into the parked car, killing the driver.
How and why this happened is completely unknown. There was conjecture that the other car tried to pass under the yellow, but this makes no sense, the track was under full course yellow at this point, and it was clear to all that a recovery operation was needed. Another thought was that the other car may have hit debris and cut a tire and this caused the secondary wreck. I'm not sure we'll ever know since the second car was also badly damaged.
Stay in your car.
The mention was made that the driver of the original car tried to get out of it under the long yellow. While this makes some sense, since the track was under yellow for a long period, and the track temp was over 100 degrees, maybe the driver thought it was a safe move. Again, we don't know the mind set, or for that matter that he actually tried to escape the car. I think that generally we all know that unless the car is on fire , you stay in the car until the marshalls get there.
None of this is to point fingers.
As with any incident from the Titanic to this one, a chain of events has to happen in a specific order, for the event to take place, remove or change the timeline, the event doesn't happen .
You can " what if" all day long, but in the end racing can be a deadly serious business, so play safe and have fun, but always keep safety in.mind.

Black flag should have been thrown

 

[blacksheep-1]

Black flag should have been thrown

Agreed, it probably should have come out sooner, but even if it came out at the flagstand, which is in the tri oval, there's still no guarantee that the car that hit him would have made it through the debris field without cutting a tire and going out of control by the time it got to turn 1.

 

[dchunk911]

Agreed, it probably should have come out sooner, but even if it came out at the flagstand, which is in the tri oval, there's still no guarantee that the car that hit him would have made it through the debris field without cutting a tire and going out of control by the time it got to turn 1.

As soon as Mathys stopped on the racing line, on the fastest section of the track, the black flag should have been thrown. There was no way to get rescue/tow vehicles to that spot without it. Hearsay was that Mathys had taken off his seat belts obviously this should not have happened. Thirdly Marcel Fayen should not have been driving like a complete idiot, causing the incident.

 

[blacksheep-1]

You "cause the incident" when you put cars on the track.
That's why you sign the waiver.

If you are determined to get into specifics, and I see absolutely no reason to do this on theTMO forum, Florida is an open records state.
you can get a copy of the official invest.