Has anyone swapped in a Jerico/G Force trans?

[honeybadger]

Was talking to an older gentlemen about road racing a bit ago and I was mentioning that I've started to look into a trans swap for my GT350 (switching to cross plane). He asked if I had explored dropping in a Jerico/GForce 4 speed since I only use gears 2-5 anyways. I didn't really have an answer because it never even dawned on me. The lightness, dog rings, and rebuild costs seem pretty appealing, but I'll admit I don't have any exposure to them.

Has anyone done this? Explored this path at all? Curious to hear any feedback.

 

[2012-Boss]

The ECU is dependent on speed sensor output from the transmission. If the there is no output, or the output is off, the car will go into limp mode. I am not sure how to work around this or if the Jerico has a sensor capability.

 

[honeybadger]

The ECU is dependent on speed sensor output from the transmission. If the there is no output, or the output is off, the car will go into limp mode. I am not sure how to work around this or if the Jerico has a sensor capability.

Hmm..I'll have to inquire about this. Any idea what type of signal it's sending the ECU?

 

[2012-Boss]

Not off hand. I would have to research it. But, if you research the Tremec Magnum XL, you will probably find a discussion of the topic. That transmission requires a signal converter from a two wire senor to the OEM Mustang three wire signal. I have the Magnum, and until we got the sensor signal converter worked out and dialed in, the car would go into limp mode.

 

[kevo_lo]

One of the main benefits with a dog box is clutchless shifting. To do so you would need to briefly interrupt torque from the engine. This is typically done with a strain gage shift knob feeding into a standalone ECU to signal a brief ignition cut to allow the clutchless shift.

I am not aware of a method to do this with a factory ECU… just food for thought.

 

[honeybadger]

I wonder if a drive shaft speed sensor could be adapted worst case scenario?

In regards to the ECU, I am planning on an ECU upgrade at some point along with PDM to eliminate the factory stuff, but that will require diving in deep because of the ABS.

This might be quite the rabbit hole

 

[Fabman]

I wonder if a drive shaft speed sensor could be adapted worst case scenario?

In regards to the ECU, I am planning on an ECU upgrade at some point along with PDM to eliminate the factory stuff, but that will require diving in deep because of the ABS.

This might be quite the rabbit hole

You can put dog rings in a TREMEC magnum xl, I came very close to doing this but didn’t pull the trigger when I should have. I would imagine you could do it to an mt82 as well. You only need the strain gauge for flat foot shifting. You can just burp the throttle like you do when shifting a motorcycle without using the clutch. In any event, I’m in for updates on whatever you do.

 

[honeybadger]

You can put dog rings in a TREMEC magnum xl, I came very close to doing this but didn’t pull the trigger when I should have. I would imagine you could do it to an mt82 as well. You only need the strain gauge for flat foot shifting. You can just burp the throttle like you do when shifting a motorcycle without using the clutch.

Do you have any experience with a Jerico/Gforce 4 speed? I don't know much about the difference between something like Tremec magnum XL with dogrings vs. the Gforce/Jerico 4 speed--outside of cost of course and the Tremec having 2 extra gears that are unusable

I have the TR3160, so I'll need to start from scratch regardless.

 

[Fabman]

Do you have any experience with a Jerico/Gforce 4 speed? I don't know much about the difference between something like Tremec magnum XL with dogrings vs. the Gforce/Jerico 4 speed--outside of cost of course and the Tremec having 2 extra gears that are unusable

I have the TR3160, so I'll need to start from scratch regardless.

Zero...just bringing it up because its an option that might be easier than dealing with the sensors that make it work with the computer. The Jerico is a race bred piece while the tremec is a production piece. The Jerico is lighter and stronger but don't know about cost and complexity involved in getting it all mated up. The Tremec is an easier install and also has more gears. I'm interested to hear what you end up with.

 

[67GTA]

I wonder if a drive shaft speed sensor could be adapted worst case scenario?

In regards to the ECU, I am planning on an ECU upgrade at some point along with PDM to eliminate the factory stuff, but that will require diving in deep because of the ABS.

This might be quite the rabbit hole

May want to check out the Xineering options - they’ve been working on sequential controls that interface with factory ecu’s. Similar concept for the clutchless shifts I would think. I use their rev-match module which has been bullet proof.

https://www.xineering.com/gcu.html

 

[honeybadger]

Zero...just bringing it up because its an option that might be easier than dealing with the sensors that make it work with the computer. The Jerico is a race bred piece while the tremec is a production piece. The Jerico is lighter and stronger but don't know about cost and complexity involved in getting it all mated up. The Tremec is an easier install and also has more gears. I'm interested to hear what you end up with.

I am anxiously waiting your feedback on that fancy S1 Sequential shifter. That with tremec box with dog rings could be really delicious. Hmmmmm

May want to check out the Xineering options - they’ve been working on sequential controls that interface with factory ecu’s. Similar concept for the clutchless shifts I would think. I use their rev-match module which has been bullet proof.

https://www.xineering.com/gcu.html

I have a note out to them to see what they can do. Hopefully they've done something already

 

[blacksheep-1]

Zero...just bringing it up because its an option that might be easier than dealing with the sensors that make it work with the computer. The Jerico is a race bred piece while the tremec is a production piece. The Jerico is lighter and stronger but don't know about cost and complexity involved in getting it all mated up. The Tremec is an easier install and also has more gears. I'm interested to hear what you end up with.

this....
I would run the Jericho if possible. I'm a fan of those and Doug Nash 5 speeds

 

[racer47]

There are a bunch of used nascar 4 speeds around since they went to the new transaxle this year. The Andrews A431 is the currently the most popular.

Jerico, GSR G-Force and Andrews A431 for sale in PINEY FLATS, TN, Price: $2,995

Jerico, GSR G-Force and Andrews A431 for sale in PINEY FLATS, TN, Price: $2,995

www.racingjunk.com

I'm sure there are other places, I just picked the 1st one i found.

I had a Jerico 4 spd and Saenz 5 spd years ago in GT1 cars. They were the best trans I ever had. It doesn't take any fancy electonics. A very quick half lift on the throttle, shift and back to wot is almost seemless. No clutch needed. They are tough enough now for no clutch downshifts too. Just blip the gas to unload the trans and shift. That is a bit harder to learn and harder on the trans but it can take it. Just replace the dogs every year or 2 or 3 (depending on how harsh you are on them) and the trans will last forever.

You'll need a bellhousing, throwout, drivesahft and some work to make it all fit but its doable, faster, lighter, stronger, cheaper in the long run, more reliable, etc.

 

[DaveW]

No help on the Jericho, I looked hard at doing it before doing the T56 Magnum. I only use 2 or 3 gears and was really interested in the lightness/weight savings, but I remembered how much floor hacking I had to do in my old Fox CP car to get the shifter and stuff to fit and kind of lost interest.

DaveW

 

[honeybadger]

No help on the Jericho, I looked hard at doing it before doing the T56 Magnum. I only use 2 or 3 gears and was really interested in the lightness/weight savings, but I remembered how much floor hacking I had to do in my old Fox CP car to get the shifter and stuff to fit and kind of lost interest.

DaveW

It's looking like I'll need a GForce GSR with top mount shifter to fit in the S550 trans tunnel without mangling it.

The video below has some good info on the GForce. Definitely has me interested. I've reached out to RTS for more info.

As far electronics, I'm looking at Link ECUs (seem to be quite popular with mustang owners in the drift community) and then pairing that up with an AIM power distribution module to handle the rest. Hmm...this rabbit hole is getting dangerously deep

 

[racer47]

The Andrews and some others are now top shifted like Tremec not side shifted like older Jericos.

A431 Transmission | four speed | Nascar | drivetrain | Gear Ratios| | Andrews Products

A431, A431 Transmission, nascar transmission

www.andrewsproducts.com

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

It's looking like I'll need a GForce GSR with top mount shifter to fit in the S550 trans tunnel without mangling it.

The video below has some good info on the GForce. Definitely has me interested. I've reached out to RTS for more info.

As far electronics, I'm looking at Link ECUs (seem to be quite popular with mustang owners in the drift community) and then pairing that up with an AIM power distribution module to handle the rest. Hmm...this rabbit hole is getting dangerously deep

So following is hearsay so take it with a grain of salt. My personal standalone experience was most recently 15yrs ago so a lot has changed since then.

I know a couple people who have used multiple standalones who can vouch for Link as a decent system. That said, on the hierarchy they are reportedly not on the same plane as Haltech, and Motec as usual is top of the heap. Motec if money is no object, but functionality wise at least in the past Haltech's top tier ecu's had about 90% of the capability for about 50% the cost. I'd take a look and talk with the guys there as well. I used to work closely with Haltech and the depth of knowledge there was always astounding.

 

[racer47]

That was a good video honeybadger. You beat me to the top shift comment by 2 mins . Good luck, the GSR looks good.

I don't want to derail this thread but it seems like the place for this. What is cooler than a dog ring trans? A zeroshift trans. It splits the dog into 2 halves so that the 2nd half engages the next gear while the 1st half is still engaged with the prior gear. Then the speed difference overrides the 1st half. It was a big F1 secret 20 years ago (or so).

OUR TECHNOLOGY

Zeroshift Intellectual Property expanded specifically for Electric Vehicles in 2019 offering refined multi-speed solutions that will meet the future needs of electric mobility. The result is a patent portfolio that now includes high performance seamless shift technology for motorsport...

www.zeroshift.com

And I know Jerico autocorrects to Jericho but it is Jerico for Jerry's Company, the founder.

 

[honeybadger]

So following is hearsay so take it with a grain of salt. My personal standalone experience was most recently 15yrs ago so a lot has changed since then.

I know a couple people who have used multiple standalones who can vouch for Link as a decent system. That said, on the hierarchy they are reportedly not on the same plane as Haltech, and Motec as usual is top of the heap. Motec if money is no object, but functionality wise at least in the past Haltech's top tier ecu's had about 90% of the capability for about 50% the cost. I'd take a look and talk with the guys there as well. I used to work closely with Haltech and the depth of knowledge there was always astounding.

I've been looking at Haltech a good amount as well. I'm struggling a bit to translate the capabilities, admittedly. Do you have an understanding of what something like Haltech's Elite 2500 offers over the Link G4X Extreme?

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

I've been looking at Haltech a good amount as well. I'm struggling a bit to translate the capabilities, admittedly. Do you have an understanding of what something like Haltech's Elite 2500 offers over the Link G4X Extreme?

They both have enough injector and coil drivers to sequentially control each cylinder, so that's the same. They both have a good number of analog and digital inputs and outputs, as well as CAN Bus connectivity. That said, in my experience with standalones one of the main things that sets the better ones apart is the flexibility and ability to use certain input data to manipulate outputs in a sophisticated manner. And this comes down to the use case. So it really depends on what you want to do. Nowadays with CAN integration the possibilities have grown exponentially in theory, but in practice it comes down to how well the various modules on your CAN system integrate. Also with PDM's, which are on the CAN as well the possibilities get overwhelming. So an intuitive user interface should also be a big factor in the decision IMO. Take a look at the Haltech R5 as well, since it has a PDM built into the ECU. One less pair of critical components to integrate, especially from different manufacturers.

So I'd think about all the functionality you might want (engine control, traction control, ABS, PDM, data logging, etc), and what the most complicated type of control strategies you can imagine using within and between these systems. Then discuss with the technical teams of any standalone manufacturer you're considering and see if they can do it, and do it intuitively. Not only for systems control but also for failsafes. Think of complex failsafes you might want that say require 3 inputs (maybe one is digital, one analog, and one from a different module on the CAN network) to be within certain ranges and if so then they modify XYZ output in a certain way per gear, or to switch you to a limp mode, or to trigger your battery disconnect to shut down the car, etc. Luckily you are not boosted and don't have a gen3 coyote (dual fuel) so that removes a lot of complexity, but still if you start dreaming up nice to haves it can get pretty complex pretty quickly.