Have or had a Sim rig? How long before you stopped using it and why?

[mavisky]

I have the logitech stuff but my son has all the fancy hot rod fanitech stuff, PC w/hot rod graphics card w/triple screens plus VR...everything....
With either sim rig I can choose an FR500 which is the closest thing to my personal car and the sim handles like a complete pig....what exactly is that simulating? Certainly not an FR500.
I have been known to tweek a chassis or two into compliance and all I ever get here is junk. Its insulting.

The FR500 is old development tech in terms of iracing. The new GT4 Muatang with the new tire model is much more accurate. Its not a 1 for 1 to a real car necessarily but its general dynamics are close enough to my car that it's helped me a ton after moving from a street car style suspension to true racing coilovers. Its helped me learn my car better and has culminated in better results in the real world. I run in a weekly series with a 40minute GT4 race. I get 2 hours of practice time before that race and another 2 hours of practice the night before. Around that race I typically run another 4 or 5 20 minute races throughout the week.

My pc was already built. So I only needed to buy a wheel/base, pedals, a seat, and the PSVr2 setup. All in that cost me about $1,200. Given that we run a 12 week series thats roughly 240 hours of "seat time" per year for just my season. Obviously its not just a tool but also super fun once you find a good league to race with.

 

[67GTA]

There’s a couple articles posted in the links below that discuss the benefits and realism of modern sims. Ross Bentley’s description was most transformational for me - real world you’re driving more from the rear of the car, where sim forces you to drive from the front axle. A sim rig hones your focus on wheel feedback and makes you that much more in tune when you’re back in the real car with all input channels firing.

To the OP’s original questions about use, burnout, etc: I started sourcing components during Black Friday 2024, which took all of December into January to receive and assemble everything. iRacing is hard to beat for ease of use and realism. In 11 months I’ve completed 148 WTW races and 1487 laps. Imagine the amount of money similar seat time would cost buying consumables! I used it less during the summer months, but was a great tool to prepare for new track configurations in my first year with NASA Utah - definitely came up to pace more quickly than if I was just watching videos or studying track maps.

Post in thread 'Sim Racing Discussion Thread'
https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/sim-racing-discussion-thread.13803/post-321648

Post in thread 'Sim Racing Discussion Thread'
https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/sim-racing-discussion-thread.13803/post-323546

Search your local area and see if there’s a racing sim business where you could try out different monitor/vr/motion setups to get a feel. Motion sickness can be a real thing for some people, so better to try out some options before dropping the coin.

 

[67GTA]

I have the logitech stuff but my son has all the fancy hot rod fanitech stuff, PC w/hot rod graphics card w/triple screens plus VR...everything....
With either sim rig I can choose an FR500 which is the closest thing to my personal car and the sim handles like a complete pig....what exactly is that simulating? Certainly not an FR500.
I have been known to tweek a chassis or two into compliance and all I ever get here is junk. Its insulting.

Precise trail braking is critical to make these sim cars turn. Going back to Ross Bentley’s theory of driving the car from the front vs the rear. Trail braking is the single biggest gain in skill from sim that translates to faster real world laps for me.

 

[Fabman]

Precise trail braking is critical to make these sim cars turn. Going back to Ross Bentley’s theory of driving the car from the front vs the rear. Trail braking is the single biggest gain in skill from sim that translates to faster real world laps for me.

My experience has been

 

[PaddyPrix]

Precise trail braking is critical to make these sim cars turn. Going back to Ross Bentley’s theory of driving the car from the front vs the rear. Trail braking is the single biggest gain in skill from sim that translates to faster real world laps for me.

Very much so, and my first hurdle that took a while to understand until I had changed the GUI Overlay to show the accel and brake pressure bars. Without that pedal feel, it's as if we're grenading the brake pedal, then immediately pulling off to then grenade the gas pedal full force, something that some of us instructors have gotten to "enjoy" from some students performing in their first ever turn at track speed.

 

[Jet One]

I started sim racing in 2019 and haven’t looked back. I have slowly been upgrading and trying to make my rig replicate as much realism as I can. It will never be exact but, I’ve found my sweet spot that helps tremendously. From the most basic track acclimation to finding what works or doesn’t work to gain lap time tenths it’s been beneficial. What I learn in the sim usually replicates on track. Correct field of view, force feedback and good load cell brake pedal are very important…this I where I think most who don’t see the benefits get wrong. It can be very immersive when these are correct.

 

[Fabman]

I started sim racing in 2019 and haven’t looked back. I have slowly been upgrading and trying to make my rig replicate as much realism as I can. It will never be exact but, I’ve found my sweet spot that helps tremendously. From the most basic track acclimation to finding what works or doesn’t work to gain lap time tenths it’s been beneficial. What I learn in the sim usually replicates on track. Correct field of view, force feedback and good load cell brake pedal are very important…this I where I think most who don’t see the benefits get wrong. It can be very immersive when these are correct.

And this is my problem. If I buy a sim I should be able to climb in and have it work. At least be decent. But that doesn’t seem to happen, it’s always a big piece of sh1t and making correct chassis changes to the car rarely make actual changes you are trying to make. Now I’m an accomplished driver and very experienced car builder, if I can’t do it…..what good is it? I have to be a programmer to adjust what should be mechanically correct parameters? I’m sure there is an answer as people seem to manage but why does it need to be so esoteric? Just give me a car that works and if I adjust it out of shape that’s my fault but let’s not start with sh1t…..for the record I do have a sim and it sits in the corner. I have tried other people’s sims and none have been worth a damn. I’d like to know where people are getting the ones that do work?

 

[Jet One]

And this is my problem. If I buy a sim I should be able to climb in and have it work. At least be decent. But that doesn’t seem to happen, it’s always a big piece of sh1t and making correct chassis changes to the car rarely make actual changes you are trying to make. Now I’m an accomplished driver and very experienced car builder, if I can’t do it…..what good is it? I have to be a programmer to adjust what should be mechanically correct parameters? I’m sure there is an answer as people seem to manage but why does it need to be so esoteric? Just give me a car that works and if I adjust it out of shape that’s my fault but let’s not start with sh1t…..for the record I do have a sim and it sits in the corner. I have tried other people’s sims and none have been worth a damn. I’d like to know where people are getting the ones that do work

Iracing is my sim of choice. The others I can’t speak for but Iracing seems to be the choice of professional drivers. I use VRS 20 Nm direct drive unit, which I run at max power then let Iracing software automatically adjust FFB to scale. VRS formula wheel and load cell pedals. Everything is mounted on a Track racer 180 rig with 27” triple screens. I position every to replicate my seating position in my actual car to include how I view my surroundings. I also use a ButtKicker that add haptics the wheel can’t replicate. Rumble strips, road texture ABS. Tire limit ect. I agree with you on the pains of set up. It’s definitely not plug and play. If you’re willing to give it another try I’d be happy to help?

 

[Mike_FL]

IRacing is great and by far the most realistic imo but it’s definitely not a sim where you can just jump in and go and expect to be any good.
I used to play a lot 10-12 years ago and it’s a lot easier to set up then it used to be.

 

[mavisky]

Also if you've been driving the FR500S because it's "the most like your existing car" you're missing out on Iracing as they retired that car for a reason. It was ancient and hadn't been receiving the consistent updates that all of the other cars have been receiving. Taking a quick glance at the iracing dev forum, the last update I saw regarding that car was 2021 and it wasn't even a large update. Meanwhile the new GT4 cars were literally updated with a brand new tire model this fall that's much more accurate than what they had been on previously. GT3 got a similar tire model first, and they're slowly going through their more popular classes over time.

In regards to the sim rig and it's quality. The first thing is to have a secure chassis to mount everything to. A wobbly rig is like trying to race in a stock seat belt vs a 5 point harness. You're just going to be fighting the setup more than driving the car. Same with the wheel base. If you're working with a geared or belt driven wheel base at this point in time you're just a generation behind. Same with a non load cell based brake pedal. The good news is that there is a ton of second hand equipment out there to make getting into the game cheap. My entire setup is secondhand except for the actual mounting chassis. All of it was bought on a budget and since I already had a powerful PC that I built a few years ago I was up and racing for less than $2,000.

 

[Fabman]

Also if you've been driving the FR500S because it's "the most like your existing car" you're missing out on Iracing as they retired that car for a reason. It was ancient and hadn't been receiving the consistent updates that all of the other cars have been receiving. Taking a quick glance at the iracing dev forum, the last update I saw regarding that car was 2021 and it wasn't even a large update. Meanwhile the new GT4 cars were literally updated with a brand new tire model this fall that's much more accurate than what they had been on previously. GT3 got a similar tire model first, and they're slowly going through their more popular classes over time.

In regards to the sim rig and it's quality. The first thing is to have a secure chassis to mount everything to. A wobbly rig is like trying to race in a stock seat belt vs a 5 point harness. You're just going to be fighting the setup more than driving the car. Same with the wheel base. If you're working with a geared or belt driven wheel base at this point in time you're just a generation behind. Same with a non load cell based brake pedal. The good news is that there is a ton of second hand equipment out there to make getting into the game cheap. My entire setup is secondhand except for the actual mounting chassis. All of it was bought on a budget and since I already had a powerful PC that I built a few years ago I was up and racing for less than $2,000.

I've tried everything, I figured if the car most like mine feels nothing like mine, well that tells a story then.
I've done some iRacing....My son has a very elaborate rig with all the fancy stuff, he could have a real race car for what that thing costs....mine is something I built plus logitech electronics.
Got pics somewhere...

 

[Fabman]

I have the manual H pattern shifter now too but still, its not great.

 

[Fabman]

If anybody wants this thing make me an offer....

 

[mavisky]

View attachment 107231View attachment 107230View attachment 107229

I have the manual H pattern shifter now too but still, its not great.

As legit as that looks the entire thing would be transformed with a proper wheel and pedal setup. I don't think there's any real issue with the frame if the seating position feels good to you. I would lower it a little bit, but that's just personal preference. The Logitech G29 is a gear based steering column and the pedals are a "motion" based system where full pressure is based on length of pedal travel and not pedal pressure.

Swap that for these units from Logitech and you'd see an immediate improvement in feedback through the wheel and more consistency from the brake. I just grabbed these from Logitech since that's the brand you're already using. Fully plug and play and may even work with your h-pattern shifter you have.

11nm direct drive wheel base and wheel for PC - $799

PRO Racing Wheel for Playstation, Xbox, PC | Logitech G

Shop PRO Racing Wheel. Features direct drive, TRUEFORCE feedback, button/dial layout, magnetic shift and dual-clutch paddles, easy mount, and more.

www.logitechg.com

Load cell brake pedals and gas/clutch - $279

PRO Racing Pedals | Logitech G

Shop PRO Racing Pedals. Features load cell brake, swappable springs, contactless hall effect sensors, and removable pedal modules.

www.logitechg.com

 

[Fabman]

As legit as that looks the entire thing would be transformed with a proper wheel and pedal setup. I don't think there's any real issue with the frame if the seating position feels good to you. I would lower it a little bit, but that's just personal preference. The Logitech G29 is a gear based steering column and the pedals are a "motion" based system where full pressure is based on length of pedal travel and not pedal pressure.

Swap that for these units from Logitech and you'd see an immediate improvement in feedback through the wheel and more consistency from the brake. I just grabbed these from Logitech since that's the brand you're already using. Fully plug and play and may even work with your h-pattern shifter you have.

11nm direct drive wheel base and wheel for PC - $799

PRO Racing Wheel for Playstation, Xbox, PC | Logitech G

Shop PRO Racing Wheel. Features direct drive, TRUEFORCE feedback, button/dial layout, magnetic shift and dual-clutch paddles, easy mount, and more.

www.logitechg.com

Load cell brake pedals and gas/clutch - $279

PRO Racing Pedals | Logitech G

Shop PRO Racing Pedals. Features load cell brake, swappable springs, contactless hall effect sensors, and removable pedal modules.

www.logitechg.com

Same wheel/pedal setup Dale Earnhardt jr. has/had and he's kicking everybody's azz with it.....when my son lived with me he had an oculus VR and a PC on this sim....that was actually pretty good.
But, he moved and took the PC etc. with him and left the sim. I have play station now and nothing works worth a damn. I'm not putting any more money in this thing.

 

[Fabman]

I went to a race shop grand opening a while back and they had a very pro looking sim....nobody could drive it.....

 

[mavisky]

For circle track stuff a gear driven setup like that may be acceptable, but driving with that on a road course will lead to slow and delayed feedback. Almost no one in the road course racing sim world is using a geared setup unless they are extremely limited on funds. I had the predecessor to that unit and gave up sim racing it was so bad. Switching to direct drive was a night and day difference.

If you dont want to put money into it, im not trying to make you, but its unfair to judge sim racing on the whole when you're operating with entry level hardware. i will say that there is an option for a PC/Playstation wheel base option from them that would make the whole setup plug and play with your Playstation.

 

[Fabman]

For circle track stuff a gear driven setup like that may be acceptable, but driving with that on a road course will lead to slow and delayed feedback. Almost no one in the road course racing sim world is using a geared setup unless they are extremely limited on funds. I had the predecessor to that unit and gave up sim racing it was so bad. Switching to direct drive was a night snd day difference.

If you dont want to put money into it, im not trying to make you, but its unfair to judge aim racing on the whole when you're operating with entry level hardware.

The pro stuff I tried sucked too...I guess you just have to know how to set it up. It must work, people seem to love it.
I'm just frustrated with it because it isn't plug and play. In my mind it should just effing work. If I wanted to spend a bunch of time and money I'll put it in a real car.
I've been able to do quite well with that.

 

[mavisky]

Like a set of coilover, you can tweak the knobs into the undrivable range pretty easily. It's also very hard to just "jump into a SIM" and drive off given how little feedback there is in terms of physical forces. There's 100% an adjustment phase you and the setup have to go through to get familiar. I can jump into my real car or into my sim and drive either at 10/10ths comfortably now. If I jump into someone else's rig it's probably going to take me 10 laps to learn to drive their setup the way it would take me some time if I just jumped in their car and tried to drive 10/10ths.

For the most parts all modern stuff is plug and play. Especially with a Playstation. Unless your setup is simply incompatible with Playstation then there shouldn't be anything other than some basic calibration such as making sure the gas, brake, and wheel are seeing full range of motion. My Fanatec Setup is designed for GT7 and I literally plugged it into my PS5 and made a few setting changes on the wheelbase for brake force (due to me having a load cell) and some little settings for personal preferences and I was off and racing. Nothing custom needed to be done, no software to download. Just plug and play.

 

[Fabman]

Like a set of coilover, you can tweak the knobs into the undrivable range pretty easily. It's also very hard to just "jump into a SIM" and drive off given how little feedback there is in terms of physical forces. There's 100% an adjustment phase you and the setup have to go through to get familiar. I can jump into my real car or into my sim and drive either at 10/10ths comfortably now. If I jump into someone else's rig it's probably going to take me 10 laps to learn to drive their setup the way it would take me some time if I just jumped in their car and tried to drive 10/10ths.

For the most parts all modern stuff is plug and play. Especially with a Playstation. Unless your setup is simply incompatible with Playstation then there shouldn't be anything other than some basic calibration such as making sure the gas, brake, and wheel are seeing full range of motion. My Fanatec Setup is designed for GT7 and I literally plugged it into my PS5 and made a few setting changes on the wheelbase for brake force (due to me having a load cell) and some little settings for personal preferences and I was off and racing. Nothing custom needed to be done, no software to download. Just plug and play.

Sounds like heaven....apparently I haven't been a good enough boy for heaven again this year....I'll have to settle for sh!t.
My son has all the fanatech gear, triple screens, VR, butt kicker, surround sound, everything.....even a kegorator with a beer tap so he can fill his glass without having to leave the seat.....enough money spent to field a real car.
Oh wait, he HAS a real car....that he can't afford to run because all his money goes into his sim rig.....silly me, I could have been racing in the A/C all summer.
And I wasted all my money on food and rent.