Head and Neck restrain

[VoodooBoss]

I have the same setup just know that NASA won't allow that at there track events. I went all the way to NASA AZ director last time out and they wouldn't let me on the track unless I used the stock belts.

What was their reasoning? We're you doing HDPE or timed events?

 

[Swiss Boss]

I have the same setup just know that NASA won't allow that at there track events. I went all the way to NASA AZ director last time out and they wouldn't let me on the track unless I used the stock belts.

Wow!! Good to know. I'm not running with NASA. My club is pretty much trusting everybody to know what they are doing. The novice got an instructor so he's got the final word if it safe or not. After that it's up to you what's safe or not (which you should know you're not a novice anymore).

 

[Swiss Boss]

And in my book when you start talking about roll bar, harness and hans you're not a novice anymore and you understand the risk you're taking without a full containment seat, proper mounting pointing for harness, full roll cage and everything else. (full race care)

 

[Tucson 302]

What was their reasoning? We're you doing HDPE or timed events?

Rick the director said that any anti sub belt must come up thru the seat in order to keep you firmly planted. Those were his words. I told him there was no way in hell I would come out of the seat but he disagreed. Yes it was just HPDE.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

As an engineer, I think that was a stupid ruling, FWIW.

Playing Devil's Advocate, however:
That is a relatively uncommon design for a harness because most cars that use harnesses don't worry about making (or having) sub strap holes in the seats.
From NASA's perspective, they probably don't see (or haven't seen) that type of sub belt before. To them it's an unknown and thus a liability, so to cover their own asses they will say it's not allowed (in the event that something goes wrong).

I can understand that reasoning from a LEGAL perspective--nothing for them to gain and a lot of PITA from a legal perspective (despite you signing waivers) if it did fail for some reason.


ANYWAYS I don't think there is anything wrong with the design and it should work great. Even the through-seat sub belts are just anchored to the floor or seat bracket with big washers anyways.

 

[fuhrius]

this will be piling on at this point, I know...but in that video they don't even look to be going very fast...the safety gear is a MUST. I think it's curious when people suggest that, as a novice, you don't need the safety gear as much as more advanced drivers...I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that that's ass-backwards...but I won't make it...I think everyone needs it. I just always think of the 'what if'. I was running at Chuckwalla a couple weeks ago and was, literally, the only car on track and there isn't much there to hit...but I still wore my HANS. What if a wheel stud sheers or a tire blows and now I'm headed for one of the few things I could hit or the car goes ass-over-tea-kettle for some reason...not saying it's likely, but how dumb would it be to leave your hans in your bag and have something totally unforeseen happen...or not have one in the first place because of the $600-ish pricetag? I hit a wall at Laguna Seca years ago...pretty much head-on at 80+ mph..fixed back seat, 6 point done the right way, HANS...no issues. Don't know how it would have turned out otherwise but glad I don't have to know.

The HANS sport is the one I use...it's no big deal to get on and off...well, it's a bit of a deal but you get used to it. I have a routine where I clip it to my helmet first then slide it and my helmet on (leave the helmet chin strap undone), get in the car, then pull my helmet up enough to see out the bottom to get harnessed, then pull it back down and do the chinstrap...not too hard.
and I use the 'quick click' attachment set up (http://www.amazon.com/HANS-Device-Helmet-Attachment-fitting/dp/B0099PC2OE)...really easy to use.
I'm sure there are a number of good ones out there now...I haven't shopped for them in a few years as I'm perfectly happy to my setup...but whatever you do, spend the money and get something.

 

[gremlinsteve]

My uncle was killed running in formula one prior to the Hans device days
The crash was in excess of 190 mph and the head and neck injuries caused the death
So I'm all in for these things being used


Steve-o

 

[orng302]

Who was your uncle?

 

[VoodooBoss]

The idea of wearing a Hans device was what drove me to get harnesses and roll bar. Watching videos from Hans and Schroth will get you to that conclusion very quickly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t08GVIxBW3k

 

[WinterSucks]

I was hoping to keep the interior intact, but I want to be around for my kids. Even if I am doing only HPDE or time trials. I am still a newb and only one mistake away from my kids wishing I had one. Suspension mods will have to wait a few years.

Question: If I install a roll bar and harnesses (mod stock seat for the anti-sub belt), would that make it more unsafe for street driving without a helmet and Hans? I am thinking it might since the torso is held down tight, instead of moving into the airbag with the head?

 

[VoodooBoss]

Question: If I install a roll bar and harnesses (mod stock seat for the anti-sub belt), would that make it more unsafe for street driving without a helmet and Hans? I am thinking it might since the torso is held down tight, instead of moving into the airbag with the head?

Don't mod your seat, from everything I've read this is a bad idea. Sitting on the sub belts should be safer than this option. You'll still use your stock belts on the street.

 

[WinterSucks]

Don't mod your seat, from everything I've read this is a bad idea. Sitting on the sub belts should be safer than this option. You'll still use your stock belts on the street.

I must have missed that discussion. I wasn't looking forward to cutting the seat anyways. Since the anti-sub belts seem silly to leave out if you go through the trouble of using a Hans, seats are on my list. Not sure how much of a street car will be left, though. At least on the inside.

 

[fuhrius]

I must have missed that discussion. I wasn't looking forward to cutting the seat anyways. Since the anti-sub belts seem silly to leave out if you go through the trouble of using a Hans, seats are on my list. Not sure how much of a street car will be left, though. At least on the inside.

this is where it gets tough. we all want it both ways. but it's tough to have it both ways. anyone who tells you that shortcuts are ok is probably misinformed or trying to justify their own shortcuts...and the large majority of those people have probably never hit a fixed object at high speed. The large majority of people won't. I never thought I would. most people who hit stuff weren't planning on hitting stuff. you should be planning for the .01% chance in my opinion. (which literally means that if you did 100 track days in your life, you'd have a 10% chance of something really bad happening). my perspective is that I'd be happy to give up performance or convenience, but I won't give up safety. After that, the myriad of trade-offs are, mostly, a deeply personal choice.

 

[Swiss Boss]

Get as much information as you can and then make your own decision about what risk you are willing to take. When you ask a question about security half of the answer says you should be fine and the other half says it's too dangerous. Look at the advantage and disadvantage of both side and make up your mind.

In the end, it will be your decision and you will be the only one responsible for it.

For me I've decided that a roll bar, 6 point harness with sitting on the sub-belt, a Hans and a helmet is good enough for my security for what I'm doing on track. On the street I will be using factory seat belt only.
Some might agree, some might disagree. In the future my view on the subject can change depend what technology will bring us to make us safer.

 

[WinterSucks]

While the sub belts might not be totally necessary for everyone, I am thinking they might be for me. I am 5' 8" have no gut, and weight 130. I think that will work against me if I don't have the sub belts. Not sure if that is the reality though. Anyone know for sure? I would love to keep the nice seats.

 

[Tucson 302]

While the sub belts might not be totally necessary for everyone, I am thinking they might be for me. I am 5' 8" have no gut, and weight 130. I think that will work against me if I don't have the sub belts. Not sure if that is the reality though. Anyone know for sure? I would love to keep the nice seats.

If you are tracking the car then I would use the sub belts anyway you can. Apparently someone indeed crashed and was killed because they did in fact submarine out of their 4 point harness no to long ago at Chuckwalla.

 

[Swiss Boss]

+1

I wouldn't track the car without sub-belt

 

[straightliner1]

How do you like it? That's the one I'm most interested in.
When the white shiznit will be gone and can get the car out of the garage, I'll go to the shop and see if I can test it.

I tried the NecksGen on at a trade show sans helmet and it felt great. If possible, buy from a retailer that will allow you to try on various sizes. You never know which one is perfect until you have them all handy. This is a safety device that needs to be comfortable too!

 

[patrickshelby]

+1

I wouldn't track the car without sub-belt

Is there a sketch or some pictures of the typical "not through the seat" sub-belt set-up?

 

[VoodooBoss]

Info and photos at the links below. None of this is an official BMO recommendation just links for you to get information.

Check out page 16, the Profi F-model and how the anti-submarining strap is connected to the lap belt anchor.

https://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Competition_Instructions.pdf

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/396778-yet-another-sub-belt-routing-question.html