HPDE tires

[Junkyard Dog]

I get about 3-4 solid days. I can run up to 6 but they heat cycle out and at that point Im just driving the car to drive on the track.

For others following along (hopefully this thread can be a tire reference), he is answering the question about the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 R.

So for the typical two day events in HPDE, this means two weekends, maybe a third, but don't expect record lap times on the third.

 

[byronj]

For others following along (hopefully this thread can be a tire reference), he is answering the question about the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 R.

So two weekends, maybe a third.

Yes the Goodyear 3R. Sorry I should have stated that.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Both good options, I'll add to the matrix. It looks like I can't edit post #1 any more.

brand	model	295	305	price	UTQG
Bridgestone	Potenza RE-71RS		30 sq	2000	200
Bridgestone	Potenza RE-71RZ		30 sq	2140	200
Contenintal	ExtremeContact Force	30 sq		1700	200
Falken	Azenis RT660+	35 sq	30 sq	1800	200
Goodyear	Eagle F1 Supercar 3	30	30	2100	220
Michelin	Pilot Sport Cup 2	30	30	2300	240
Nankang	Sportnex CR-S	30	30	1700	200
Vitour	Tempesta P1 P-01R	30	30	1900	200
Goodyear	Eagle F1 Supercar 3R		30 sq	1800	100
Nitto	NT01		30 sq	2340	100
Pirelli	P Zero Trofeo R	30	30	2500	60
Toyo	Proxy R	30 sq		1400	40
PP2 wheels 10.5x11
BC Forged 10x10.5
both wheels

Can anybody tell me what he means in the chart with the two columns under the tread width (295 and 305) where he writes 30, 30 sq or leaves it blank?

Sorry if that is a stupid question, but I have thought and considered and re-read the post, and I still cannot figure it out.

Plus, I hope he keeps updating this chart.

Maybe we as a community could help keep an updated chart with some comments upon performance, especially a ranking of which tires are faster and maybe a column for how long they last (how many days) in HPDE driving. I think that would make the chart extremely useful for everybody looking at this thread.

I would love to pitch in, but I do not have any experience to help out - one track day on one tire. I can say that, Damn, those tires were sticky! But I do not have a frame of reference for how they compare to others or how long they lasted (I wore them out completely in 6-7000 miles of street driving). But I would promise to pitch in as I gain more experience and could make such comparisons and longevity comments.

 

[mikeD4V]

It seems to be the tire's aspect ratio.

It's hard to say how long tires last with so many variables. These guys do a good job of cataloging track tires.

Grassroots Motorsports ultimate track tire guide

What you need to know before choosing your next track tire.

grassrootsmotorsports.com

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The main issue I have with grassroots motorsports is that the cars they are using are not 500 horsepower and 3880 pounds in weight. Are the tire results comparable on a very different sort of car?

Some of the tires probably do well on a Miata or VW that would not do well on our cars, and vice a versa.

I do use it as a reference, though, because we do not really have anything else.

 

[Dave_W]

Most of the tire test articles in GRM are done by Andy Hollis in TX using a Miata or modified Honda (CRX?), usually in 15" or 17" diameters and 195 to 255 widths. I'm not sure if the GRM guide ratings take in other data sources.

I do use it as a reference, though, because we do not really have anything else.

Same here. The full test articles do give more info that can be important, like turn-in feel and grip feedback. But like JD says, it doesn't always translate from a 205-15 on a Miata to a 305-18 on a Mustang, sometimes because the manufacturer uses slightly different carcass designs for the very different sizes.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Checking out the TireRack tests you do get a closer sample with 275/19s on an M2. Take these 2 sources and add the comments from the track rats at TMO and you will have a heavy dose of data to soak up. Good luck and may the Ford be with You!

 

[CarSalesman]

Different but related subject…. What does everyone like for a rain tire? If you run at WGI that is a real thing!

 

[Duane Black]

Different but related subject…. What does everyone like for a rain tire? If you run at WGI that is a real thing!

The Continental Extreme Contact Sport 02 (the 340 treadwear, not 200) has been my go-to for years, along with its predecessor. Much better than a Pilot Sport ps4, which i dumped for more Conti.

I keep a set for daily driving, thus, i always have a rain tire

 

[mikeD4V]

For me, the takeaway from the tire guide is whether the tire is more pace oriented or endurance oriented. The relationship between "TT pace" and "Wear" is what I focus on. You can cord any set of tires in a day or weekend.

I'm picking my tire based on use, do I want more track days out of it or do I want faster lap times at the expense of shorter tire life. Every tire has a tradeoff and I look at the 200TW segment as the gatekeeper. The 200TW tires are "performance" tires where you're trading warm weather use and accelerated wear for "performance". Among the 200TW are basically two types, TT pace tires and endurance tires. The tire is fast and wears fast or it's slower and wears slower. The softer and hotter the tire gets, the more it will degrade as it's pushed across the road surface.

Anything over 200TW is more of a street tire and anything under 200TW is typically a tire developed by a tire and/or car manufacturer for a specific car or spec series. These tires are the sport cup variants for the gt350 and M cars, trofeos, goodyear supercar 3 and 3R, and spec series tires like toyo, nitto, etc. These manufacturer variants can be good options if the tire is designed for your car or a car similar to yours.

I like the 200TW endurance for track sessions which aren't solely lap time focused like learning a new track, trying alternate lines, passenger laps, etc. The Conti ECF is my choice here because it's the newest tire in the segment, has performed well for me in dry/wet track use, was happy with my first set, and I'm buying another set this year. The ECF starts out ~2-3 seconds slower than the 3R but the 3R will wear into and out of the ECF average times before the ECF wears out. For me, the 100TW and below are for lap times. The GY SC 3R is my choice here based on a compromise between wear-pace-price (w/USAA discount), and the tire was designed for a car very similar to ours (6th gen Camaro).

Where you want to be on the trade-off scale is where the tire choices come in to play. Some are more pace oriented and some are more endurance oriented. The wear rate depends on how you load the tire so variables like driving style, brake pad, weather, air pressure, track surface, etc all come in to play. What the manufacturer intended the tire for is important for decision making.

IMO the 100TW are good for a weekend driver/track car with 1 set of wheels and the driver is pushing for lap times. 200TW has a tire for every performance tire buyer.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Will agree with Duane about the Conti Sport 02 ,as I recommend it to friends who want to replace their Michelin 4Ss. It is better all the way around and it is a quieter rolling donut also!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Good comments from mikeD4V but if you are deciding on doing Time Trials in the future , do check the rules with the group you may run with. In some cases a 40-100 TWR tire will put you in an Unlimited Class , so if Time Trials are a desire of yours 200 TWR rubber will likely be your choice. Lots of good things to think about and I realize you may not be thinking of Time Trials at present, but as a NASA Instructor I have seen folks want to gravitate to that sooner than they expected. Same thing with SCCA and other groups ------ one's competitive nature can kick in when you least expect it, ha!

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Checking out the TireRack tests you do get a closer sample with 275/19s on an M2. Take these 2 sources and add the comments from the track rats at TMO and you will have a heavy dose of data to soak up. Good luck and may the Ford be with You!

I pay attention to those, too, and to Youtube videos. There are a number of channels that compare tires on track. Tyre Reviews is a pretty good one, and it is doing comparisons all the time, and sometimes with heavy BMWs, which are more comparable to a Mustang than a Miata.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Will agree with Duane about the Conti Sport 02 ,as I recommend it to friends who want to replace their Michelin 4Ss. It is better all the way around and it is a quieter rolling donut also!

Interesting. Given that they are a 340 tw, I just assumed that they would be harder, less performance oriented than the 4S. I replaced my worn out Trofeo RS (what a ridiculous factory tire! But I loved them while they lasted) with Michelin Pilot Sport PS4S for the winter because I had been happy with those on my prior car (Audi sedan) and they came in the Ford stock 305 and 315 sizes (even though the tread width was wider than the 305 and 315 in the Trofeo RS). The Continental Extreme Contact Sport 02 was 340 tw (v. 300 for the PS4S) and did not come in 315. It probably would have been fine to stick 305 on both the front and rear, but the rear then would have been a fraction of an inch shorter.

Eh, I am happy with what I did. Maybe I will look at the Continental again if they come out with a 315. The 325 is intended for (optimized for) an 11.5" wheel and would have been a fraction of an inch taller. Goldilocks situation. This one's too short. This one's too tall.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Junkyard , the folks at TireRack understand your thoughts as others commented to them. You will notice quite a few tests, of late, are with a BMW M2 of late --- 3800+ lbs of Braunschweiger, ha!

 

[FilxNZ]

I'm also a fan of reading through a number of different sources of tire performance info, however picking up on the comments here around GRM testing on a lightweight Miata versus heavier vehicles like Mustangs. Does it really not extrapolate out? An ND Miata on a 225 has a very similar "weight per mm" of tire to an S550 on a 305? I guess it would be really interesting to test the same tires back to back across two different vehicles.

 

[Duane Black]

In theory, yes... but a Miata is a double wishbone car vs a strut car. Its also not putting the same energy through the tire, no matter what, really.

 

[byronj]

Different but related subject…. What does everyone like for a rain tire? If you run at WGI that is a real thing!

I have had good luck with the Hankook Ecsta PS91. Way cheaper that PS4 and the wet handling IMO is superior to the PS4. When I called Tire Rack years ago. George asked who gave me the secret?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I have had good luck with the Hankook Ecsta PS91. Way cheaper that PS4 and the wet handling IMO is superior to the PS4. When I called Tire Rack years ago. George asked who gave me the secret?

Tire Rack shows only small sizes available (255/30R19 is the largest), but maybe that is what you need for a rain tire, a smaller tire contact patch, maybe mounted on a smaller wheel? I have never been on a track in the rain, so I have no idea what I am talking about. A separate set of wheels and tires for rain seems like a lot for HPDE.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I'm also a fan of reading through a number of different sources of tire performance info, however picking up on the comments here around GRM testing on a lightweight Miata versus heavier vehicles like Mustangs. Does it really not extrapolate out? An ND Miata on a 225 has a very similar "weight per mm" of tire to an S550 on a 305? I guess it would be really interesting to test the same tires back to back across two different vehicles.

I don't know, and please do not take my post as asserting some kind of expertise. It is just something I was wondering about. My car is 500 horsepower from the factory and it is a pig compared to the weight of a Porsche GT3RS or, especially, a Miata. I just figure that it is probably different on tires, but I could be 100% wrong.