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Interesting Track Results

So, after a blistering hot weekend at Autobahn CC, I observed a couple of interesting things:

1. Temps were about 10-12 degrees cooler running the normal Black key instead of the Track key. I am baffled by this.
2. Even with temps on track cresting 107 degrees, according to my thermometer, with better than 50% humidity, I had no overheating on the Black key at all. I have the 302s grill and nothing else of note to mitigate heat that isn't stock. Even had a 35 minute session at the hottest part of the day.
3. Every run I made with the Black Key set off the "Service Advancetrac" error, with TCS, ABS, etc lights going off. Didn't cut power to the car, activate brakes or anything so I ignored them after the first time and just finished my run. Each time, it cleared after shutting down and restarting, no problem, so it was just the yaw sensors I think.
4. One other Mustang guy at the track had seen this before, but after my 3rd run session for Sunday, my bleeder valve on my driver-side front Brembo backed itself a little out, leaking some brake fluid on the caliper and rotor. Which promptly caught fire. A quick squirt from the extinguisher put it out, and all is well. I had bled brakes the night before, and the brakes had been rock solid for the first two runs of the day. Never personally seen that before. I pulled the caliper off and inspected it - seals etc. all were fine, we caught it quickly. I simply re-tightened the bleeder valve and all was basically well after another brake bleed and some cleanup. Unnerving, but no real damage.

What does this tell us? I don't know - this is not an interpretation of my experiences, only a relay of what I saw and what happened.

The car was fast, was a great run weekend. There was another Boss to play with out there, and lots of fun with Porsches and Vettes to be had ;D Can't wait to hit Autobahn again, it's an awesome track.
 
Thanks for sharing. I've had my car run hot on the silver key but not TK in similar conditions but I have not swapped keys during the same track day.

Did you have any shifting lock out issues?
 
5 DOT 0 said:
Thanks for sharing. I've had my car run hot on the silver key but not TK in similar conditions but I have not swapped keys during the same track day.

Did you have any shifting lock out issues?

No lockout issues at all - tranny was fine. I do, and have since day 1, run Redline MTL in mine, BTW.

The Black key thing was total accident - was running late to the grid and grabbed the "wrong" one by mistake. Knew it right away once on track, of course, but it was too late by then. However, after what I observed, I used it another time or two, and data and observations were consistent.
 
Good info and thanks for posting. I'll add my experience to your points for reference:

LateApex said:
So, after a blistering hot weekend at Autobahn CC, I observed a couple of interesting things:

1. Temps were about 10-12 degrees cooler running the normal Black key instead of the Track key. I am baffled by this. I ran all last season (about 20 track days) with the black key since TK wasn't available. I overheated the car my first time out and ran it to the edge (mid to upper 240s/low 250s ECT) at least half the time after that. The ECTs I have seen this summer after the addition of the air-to-oil cooler and Tiger Hood are in line with what I saw last summer on the black key. I guess I should try the black key this weekend at BIR once it heats up to see if there's a difference. You have me intrigued big time. I have resorted to pulling my 302S grille when I start hitting high 240s/low 250s ECT and it has always solved the problem dropping me 15-20 degrees.
2. Even with temps on track cresting 107 degrees, according to my thermometer, with better than 50% humidity, I had no overheating on the Black key at all. I have the 302s grill and nothing else of note to mitigate heat that isn't stock. Even had a 35 minute session at the hottest part of the day.
3. Every run I made with the Black Key set off the "Service Advancetrac" error, with TCS, ABS, etc lights going off. Didn't cut power to the car, activate brakes or anything so I ignored them after the first time and just finished my run. Each time, it cleared after shutting down and restarting, no problem, so it was just the yaw sensors I think. Were you running with AdvanceTrac off, Sport Mode or all systems active? I have only run with AdvanceTrac completely shut off and have yet to encounter that error, which I've seen referenced by others.
4. One other Mustang guy at the track had seen this before, but after my 3rd run session for Sunday, my bleeder valve on my driver-side front Brembo backed itself a little out, leaking some brake fluid on the caliper and rotor. Which promptly caught fire. A quick squirt from the extinguisher put it out, and all is well. I had bled brakes the night before, and the brakes had been rock solid for the first two runs of the day. Never personally seen that before. I pulled the caliper off and inspected it - seals etc. all were fine, we caught it quickly. I simply re-tightened the bleeder valve and all was basically well after another brake bleed and some cleanup. Unnerving, but no real damage. I had this happen on my GT500 (same 4 piston Brembos). I wasn't as fortunate as you though, but not catastrophic. I had just passed two Porsches at MAM going into the braking zone of Turn 9 at over 100 mph when the pedal went to the floor. I was able to make the right hander and started turning left into 10 but realizing I wasn't going to make it I put the car into a skid and slid into the infield (fortunately it's a prairie track with no trees and only a few tire walls well off the track). Had I not passed the two Porsches in that short straight, I likely would have T-boned them :eek: It turned out that the outside bleeder screw on my driver side Brembo had worked loose similar to your situation. Since then I have always used a torque wrench to re-seat my bleeder screws....always. Call me paranoid, but going through an experience like that will do it to you.

What does this tell us? I don't know - this is not an interpretation of my experiences, only a relay of what I saw and what happened.

The car was fast, was a great run weekend. There was another Boss to play with out there, and lots of fun with Porsches and Vettes to be had ;D Can't wait to hit Autobahn again, it's an awesome track. Yes it is ;D I need to get back there soon.
 
1. Yes, the Black key thing is really throwing me, I really don't know why that would be. But the data held. /boggle
3. I always run with the nannies full off. That's why it irritated me. Annoying, but that's about it - I think ???
4. Bingo - that is my new policy as well. Skidding through the dirt, trying to slide your way into pit row with no brakes, while on fire, is no way to live...
 
LateApex said:
4. Bingo - that is my new policy as well. Skidding through the dirt, trying to slide your way into pit row with no brakes, while on fire, is no way to live...
ROFLMAO!!!!!! well it's funny now that we're both alive to laugh at it :D
 
Maybe because the black key runs richer? At least according to what I have seen posted most places.


I've been having issues with one of the bleeders leaking, as I have posted about, but the bad one is not loose. In fact it is tighter than any of the others, and was so from the factory. I finally got it to stop leaking by cranking it down so far I was afraid I would strip it and it hasn't leaked for about 100 miles. Hazzah

On the OEM Brembos on my Evo, on which I had 10 or 12 track weekends (so 20+ days), iirc I had one loosen up a bit at a track day and dribble a bit but had no other issues. Tightened it up and it was gtg. They were two fingers tight at most. The leaky one on the Boss is now 4 fingers and one grunt.
 

steveespo

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Russell speed bleeder have sealant on the threads to prevent leaks and air being sucked into the caliper when they are cracked to bleed. Anyone know what and where to get this sealant, maybe it can be used to prevent seepage on standard bleeders. Also I would replace the bleeders if they are weeping, you may have tried that, only other idea is to change the caliper (warranty) Ford wont squeal to hard if you mention brakes and safety in the same sentence.
Steve
 
Have a link to the OEM bleeders? I looked and all I found on the Ford site was the repair kits which I don't think have bleeders. I was holding off as I was expecting Ford to step up, but at this point I am going to just do it and try to get it working.

I have tried 2 dealers, customer care, and contacting Deysha (no response at all so far) and Ford has been no help at all as leaking calipers is apparently "normal". I am thinking about contacting Brembo but I doubt they will do anything, as it is an OEM part. Getting to the point where I am pretty pissed as I have been complaining about this for 5 months. Not to mention the tranny and clutch issues. It is even more aggravating because Ford seems to be helping everyone else.
 
I had the Russell speed bleeders on and lost the brakes at Sebing. I found them wet on both inside caliper bleeders. I have since switched back to the factory bleeders and have not had a problem since. Anybody have a good recommendation on a micro torque? Been searching for one and have not found anything.

Far as the red key goes I use it only on track and for one reason only, limp mode. Still my car sets off P0300 codes every track day on the red key anyway so I wonder ??? I must be the only person who sees nothing worthwhile with the red key, I do get a little shaking while waiting on pit road but I see no increased engine braking or other things. It makes no HP and time on track, I would rather use the black key like I do on street and would if there was a patch I could put in for the codes without throwing out my entire warranty.
 
I was tempted to try them, but I talked to a few guys around the track and heard too many stories about them popping. They are probably find for the street.

There is a screw driver type on that all the utilities use, but it is pretty expensive and might not fit because it is not angled. I have been trying to convince my boss I need one for work, so I can test the connections before utilities show up but he isn't going for it.
 

PeteInCT

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I've used the Russell speed bleeders in 2 events for 3 track days with multiple bleeds done - no issues so far.
 
steveespo said:
Torque on the bleeders is 159 in/lbs which is 13 ft/lbs so a 3/8" torque wrench can be used to tourqe them if you don't want to spend $100 on a 1/4" wrench. I have a gear wrench 1/4" I got on amazon for $99.
I want a 1/4 inch if I can find a good one, so far I have seen only cheep ones and I would have trouble trusting them. My 3/8 only goes to 20 ft/lbs.

PeteInCT said:
I've used the Russell speed bleeders in 2 events for 3 track days with multiple bleeds done - no issues so far.

I recommend pulling them before you have a problem. One thing I have done is look at what race team use and try to copy that, so far I have not seen speed bleeders on any race cars. They should be fine on the street but in my opinion I do not think they can handle multiple uses and heat on track.
 

TMSBOSS

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5 DOT 0 said:
Here you go. CDI makes the Snap-On torque wrenches.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CDI-TORQUE-WRENCH-1-4-DR-20-150-IN-LB-1501MRMH-USA-/270885376951?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1206d3b7

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CDI-TORQUE-WRENCH-3-8-DR-5-75-FT-LB-752MFRMH-/270524416835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3efc830343

Looks like all the wrenches 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 are in the $110.00 to $130.00 range Plus shipping.

Same manufacturer as snap on...cool.

Thanks for the tip.

Looks like the old craftsman wrenches are getting the heave ho!!
 

steveespo

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2012YellowBoss said:
I recommend pulling them before you have a problem. One thing I have done is look at what race team use and try to copy that, so far I have not seen speed bleeders on any race cars. They should be fine on the street but in my opinion I do not think they can handle multiple uses and heat on track.

My 3/8" torque wrench goes down to 10 ft/lbs, some don't no worries.
I also have been using the speed bleeder for over a year now and 12 track days without issue. The only difference between a normal bleede and the Russell's is the check valve that prevents air being drawn back in during bleeding. When seated both type rely on the needle/seat seal between the bottom of the bleeder and the caliper port seat. If the check valve breaks, the speed bleeder would still act as a regular bleeder.
Steve
 
I've noticed with my wrenches, the very low settings sometimes are really hard to feel clicking. For instance, my 20-150 is unusable until at least 30 because I can not feel the clicks at all so I would be wary of using the 10-X wrench on things in the 10-20 range. The smaller one goes to 150in/ft which is like 14 lb/ft so there is a 14-20ish area that might still be difficult. But it might just be my wrenches that are like that, I usually buy Craftsman because that is what they carry at the store my work uses, and I have had then in the 10-100 range (that one stopped working after a few years or at least went off very bad, I mostly used it for the wheels on my track car that are 85), 20-150 (I had one go bad that I was using for work after 10+ years, the second one seems to be good). I bought one that was lower range, it was a lot more expensive, but when I got it home I opened the box and the handle fell off ::) so I returned it. Haven't replaced it yet. I'm sure there are guys with a lot more experience with them than I have, but I have also had some of the ones with the little bar and the bendy handle. I don't know how they compare as far as general accuracy but I like how you can compensate when they go off zero a bit.

Also in reading the manual for one of them, I noticed that you are supposed to store them at the lowest setting. I don't know how important it is, but I always reset them if they are going to sit more than a few hours.
 

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