Is modifying my '18 to run E85 worth it?

[myelenore]

I'm considering the cost of the modifications necessary to run E85 in my NA 2018 track car. I've budgeted roughly $2000. (fuel booster pump, new fuel injectors, Dyno tune and installation of all necessary) Has anyone regretted doing it? Are people seeing a significant enough increase in RWHP to justify the expense? Just wondering what the guys think that have done it on their Get III coyotes and how much RWHP actually increased.

 

[67GTA]

I'm considering the cost of the modifications necessary to run E85 in my NA 2018 track car. I've budgeted roughly $2000. (fuel booster pump, new fuel injectors, Dyno tune and installation of all necessary) Has anyone regretted doing it? Are people seeing a significant enough increase in RWHP to justify the expense? Just wondering what the guys think that have done it on their Get III coyotes and how much RWHP actually increased.

With the Gen 3 you don’t need any of the parts, just a tune. You’ll get a slight bump in HP, but the bigger benefit is the higher octane to protect against detonation. Runs cooler as well. Depending on where you’re at, the $3.59 pump price is really nice compared to $6.89 for 91 here in CA.

 

[Fabman]

I'm considering the cost of the modifications necessary to run E85 in my NA 2018 track car. I've budgeted roughly $2000. (fuel booster pump, new fuel injectors, Dyno tune and installation of all necessary) Has anyone regretted doing it? Are people seeing a significant enough increase in RWHP to justify the expense? Just wondering what the guys think that have done it on their Get III coyotes and how much RWHP actually increased.

Been on e85 since before it was cool. lol. Like 13 or 14 years.
HP gains on N/A are minimal, 10-12 hp maybe. BUT it runs way cooler and is half the price of 100 octane and is way safer than gas.
On my old super charged 3v it was worth 100 rwhp. Boost loves e85.
Now with the N/A Coyote its still the only fuel I run, and while the HP boost isn't all that much the price and low engine temps and safety make it a no brainer.

 

[Fabman]

With the Gen 3 you don’t need any of the parts, just a tune. You’ll get a slight bump in HP, but the bigger benefit is the higher octane to protect against detonation. Runs cooler as well. Depending on where you’re at, the $3.59 pump price is really nice compared to $6.89 for 91 here in CA.

Damn you posted that as I was typing....I agree with all the above.

 

[KazarS197]

Just remember that you will use something like 25-30% more fuel and make sure there is availability near the tracks you go to or will have to transport. My car was turned for e85 when I purchased but had to do a 92 tune due to my home track had nothing close. I'm new and not trailering. Maybe down the road the trailer will be in the picture and back to ETOH.

 

[Fabman]

Just remember that you will use something like 25-30% more fuel and make sure there is availability near the tracks you go to or will have to transport. My car was turned for e85 when I purchased but had to do a 92 tune due to my home track had nothing close. I'm new and not trailering. Maybe down the road the trailer will be in the picture and back to ETOH.

Fuel consumption isn't that bad, its more like 20% more. A lot depends on your tuner.
We finally got @Mad Hatter on the stuff and he was surprised at how good the mileage was.

 

[KazarS197]

Fuel consumption isn't that bad, its more like 20% more. A lot depends on your tuner.
We finally got @Mad Hatter on the stuff and he was surprised at how good the mileage was.

I guess I looked at it from the e85 to 92. Went from 16-17 to 21-22 mpg going to 92. Since I was already running e85 I used the 16 as the base. Should have looked at it from the 92 side.

 

[Fabman]

I guess I looked at it from the e85 to 92. Went from 16-17 to 21-22 mpg going to 92. Since I was already running e85 I used the 16 as the base. Should have looked at it from the 92 side.

A lot depends on the tune.
Shaun at AED gets every bit of efficiency out of the motor so a crappy gasoline tune may use MORE fuel than a super duper e85 tune from Shaun.
Ask @Mad Hatter I think this was his experience. He now makes more power and uses about the same or less fuel. What's not to love about that?

 

[KazarS197]

A lot depends on the tune.
Shaun at AED gets every bit of efficiency out of the motor so a crappy gasoline tune may use MORE fuel than a super duper e85 tune from Shaun.
Ask @Mad Hatter I think this was his experience. He now makes more power and uses about the same or less fuel. What's not to love about that?

Me likey E85 more better. I just wish there was some closer to my home track. I have a completely different E85 tune along with the 92 and the fuel dump tune from when I purchased the car. I found out later that the guy (Tim at Roadheavers) that did my dyno and tuning is on the phone with Shaun all of the time. He actually did the dyno for @JeffV8 and was having Shaun make the adjustments since Shaun did the none dynon tuning. I'm new to the tuning stuff and was confused - after changing fuel after doing the E85 tune that Tim had to spend no time on the 92 tune and I think only had to do one pull. Now I think I understand better - I was watching engine masters the other day. They were doing a comparison with many "gas" fuels and then E85 while dynoing. With all of the gas fuels they all liked the same timing and a/f mixture. What they said was there was basically no hp change for an NA engine no matter what gas is used as long as the tune is optimized initially. The only changes for E85 was the a/f mixture. I was under the misconception that if you dump race gas in a NA car it with give a few extra hp - nope. You have me curious. I have not run the new 85 tune yet. I have to give it a try and see when my mpg numbers end up. With Tim working with Shaun I might be surprised.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

LIving in the " Land of Ethanol Plants " the only caveat I tell folks who want to go to E--85 is to check both the availability of it at the tracks/towns you are going to and to keep in mind there can be quite a bit of difference in the actual octane. My son has run E--85 in his EVO9 for 5---7 years and that is the concern --- there can be a big difference in the actual blend. For years many folks in the Omaha area would drive over to one station in Council Bluffs, Iowa because it was so much higher on the percentage scale ( usually around 90-92 ).

 

[Fabman]

LIving in the " Land of Ethanol Plants " the only caveat I tell folks who want to go to E--85 is to check both the availability of it at the tracks/towns you are going to and to keep in mind there can be quite a bit of difference in the actual octane. My son has run E--85 in his EVO9 for 5---7 years and that is the concern --- there can be a big difference in the actual blend. For years many folks in the Omaha area would drive over to one station in Council Bluffs, Iowa because it was so much higher on the percentage scale ( usually around 90-92 ).

There is a station near me that has a pretty consistent blend of 80-85% ethanol so I fill up a bunch of fuel jugs and bring them on race day. Any leftover fuel goes into my 55 gal drum for next time. Yeah, it’s a little bit of a hassle but it’s well worth it.

 

[Fabman]

Me likey E85 more better. I just wish there was some closer to my home track. I have a completely different E85 tune along with the 92 and the fuel dump tune from when I purchased the car. I found out later that the guy (Tim at Roadheavers) that did my dyno and tuning is on the phone with Shaun all of the time. He actually did the dyno for @JeffV8 and was having Shaun make the adjustments since Shaun did the none dynon tuning. I'm new to the tuning stuff and was confused - after changing fuel after doing the E85 tune that Tim had to spend no time on the 92 tune and I think only had to do one pull. Now I think I understand better - I was watching engine masters the other day. They were doing a comparison with many "gas" fuels and then E85 while dynoing. With all of the gas fuels they all liked the same timing and a/f mixture. What they said was there was basically no hp change for an NA engine no matter what gas is used as long as the tune is optimized initially. The only changes for E85 was the a/f mixture. I was under the misconception that if you dump race gas in a NA car it with give a few extra hp - nope. You have me curious. I have not run the new 85 tune yet. I have to give it a try and see when my mpg numbers end up. With Tim working with Shaun I might be surprised.

91 octane to e85 was worth 12 hp on my car.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

The rule of thumb is 30% more fuel by volume, your tune may vary, and NA I’m sure it’s not as much. My GT500 makes 130 more on corn and feels like even more. Plus I feel like I’m getting away with something when I fill up.

It is also noticeably less toxic when you spill E85, and the fumes when you start the car in the garage are less irritating.


You can keep a sealed 5gal pail of X98 in your garage as insurance against a bad fill at the pump.

The downsides can be availability, consistency (esp if you live where they seasonally vary the blend), and some reports of sludge. For high HP boosted cars fuel tank size can be an issue for longer track sessions.

 

[KazarS197]

91 octane to e85 was worth 12 hp on my car.

7 on mine. Mine is much lower on hp though. New tunes 424 -> 431. It might be in my head - the original tune 435 just felt snappy. It also could have been the car was new to me and starting to get used to it. I never had anything close to this hp.

 

[JDee]

Virtually impossible to get E85 up here, have to cross the border to get it. It's my understanding that there is already 5 to 10% ethanol in all gas up here. It seems damn strange to be putting grain alcohol into gas in a country that is completely awash in crude oil. I guess you can make ethanol from plant waste, but I don't know if that's actually happening.
Our virtue signalling loons, er, leftie politicians in Ottawa, want to keep the oil in the ground and use food to make fuel instead. I guess. I dunno what the hell they're doing these days, I just hope the next election we get something better than a haircut for a prime minister.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

The other issue with new cars is any warranty claims, as one will run into a stone wall with engine issues if the Manufacturer finds you are using E85 in many vehicles ( unless the car is flex fuel ). My suggestion would be to avoid usage until after the warranty is over unless this is not a concern to you.

 

[KazarS197]

Virtually impossible to get E85 up here, have to cross the border to get it. It's my understanding that there is already 5 to 10% ethanol in all gas up here. It seems damn strange to be putting grain alcohol into gas in a country that is completely awash in crude oil. I guess you can make ethanol from plant waste, but I don't know if that's actually happening.
Our virtue signalling loons, er, leftie politicians in Ottawa, want to keep the oil in the ground and use food to make fuel instead. I guess. I dunno what the hell they're doing these days, I just hope the next election we get something better than a haircut for a prime minister.

The lack of E85 in the north is probably due to the the cooler climate. Cold starts are rougher. I think it has something to do with reid vapor pressure. Maybe they are thinking that the season for E85 is short why bother since they would have to switch back and forth from summer to winter blend in less time. Where I love ve near Pittsburgh winter blend E85 goes down to E70 and maybe lower.

 

[myelenore]

Appreciate all the thoughtful insight into this issue! I'm continually impressed by the depth of knowledge from all thread participants on TMO. I will now likely use my E85 budgeted funds in another with the end goal of lowering lap times.
Perhaps a cam swap or a Intake manifold (Cobra Jet) or both on my '18 would produce a greater delta in RWHP?
It never ends with this car..............

 

[67GTA]

Appreciate all the thoughtful insight into this issue! I'm continually impressed by the depth of knowledge from all thread participants on TMO. I will now likely use my E85 budgeted funds in another with the end goal of lowering lap times.
Perhaps a cam swap or a Intake manifold (Cobra Jet) or both on my '18 would produce a greater delta in RWHP?
It never ends with this car..............

For lowering lap times in HPDE, resist the urge to add HP to accomplish that goal. Focus your engine mods on extending the life of the original engine as long as possible, ie proper oil cooler, baffled oil pan, catch cans, etc. From experience, I would add E85 to that list of simple mods that provide “insurance” to the stock engine, especially for the Gen 3 cars since it’s such a simple conversion. Lap times are going to benefit more from good tires, proper track alignment and seat-time.

 

[myelenore]

For lowering lap times in HPDE, resist the urge to add HP to accomplish that goal. Focus your engine mods on extending the life of the original engine as long as possible, ie proper oil cooler, baffled oil pan, catch cans, etc. From experience, I would add E85 to that list of simple mods that provide “insurance” to the stock engine, especially for the Gen 3 cars since it’s such a simple conversion. Lap times are going to benefit more from good tires, proper track alignment and seat-time.

Agree with all 3 of your suggestions. To that end, this season I've gone to 100TW R888R's, I had a track alignment done by Kenny Brown Performance in Indianapolis and I'm scheduled for twice as many track days as last year. No question more laps = lower lap times!