Lap Time Thread

[flyhalf]

Wow, as PSC2s are really slick ---- and awful in the rain. Will be getting a set of SCF13Rs for next year , so will keep that in mind.

3R when warm are 1sec faster than cup2...u will love them!

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Thanks Flyhalf, the rumors I have heard seem to suggest that. The good friend running them says they are as fast as R7s , but he is running them on a Porsche so quite a bit less weight. Wondering if I can get a couple of weekends out of them since the two main tracks I run are quite smooth and easy on tires, so appreciate your help!

 

[flyhalf]

Thanks Flyhalf, the rumors I have heard seem to suggest that. The good friend running them says they are as fast as R7s , but he is running them on a Porsche so quite a bit less weight. Wondering if I can get a couple of weekends out of them since the two main tracks I run are quite smooth and easy on tires, so appreciate your help!

They are actually really close to A7 perf. Once in temp . And are consistent like R7
If rotated u can get 3 or 4 events.
They dont tolerate too much camber.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Interesting on the camber , but then I have 2.7/2.6 up front and 1.8 in the rear and my tire wear has been pretty decent so far. Rotation is the key for so many tires as almost every track tends to wear one side more than the other, so moving them black rubber donuts around helps with life.

 

[Fabman]

Interesting on the camber , but then I have 2.7/2.6 up front and 1.8 in the rear and my tire wear has been pretty decent so far. Rotation is the key for so many tires as almost every track tends to wear one side more than the other, so moving them black rubber donuts around helps with life.

Every run I X rotate my tires...

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Damn, Fab, I thought doing it once a day was good, but I can sure understand your race prep. My lousy back means once a day ( usually with friends helping ) is about all I can make and usually I get darn good tire wear. I have a lot of friends tell me I am extremely smooth on track, but looking at my times last year I think it is a polite way to tell an older racer, " Dude , you are getting slower!"

 

[Fabman]

Damn, Fab, I thought doing it once a day was good, but I can sure understand your race prep. My lousy back means once a day ( usually with friends helping ) is about all I can make and usually I get pretty darn tire wire. I have a lot of friends tell me I am extremely smooth on track, but looking at my times last year I think it is a way to tell an older racer, " Dude , you are getting slower!"

With smoothness comes speed. Not the reverse.

 

[navseng]

Interesting on the camber , but then I have 2.7/2.6 up front and 1.8 in the rear and my tire wear has been pretty decent so far. Rotation is the key for so many tires as almost every track tends to wear one side more than the other, so moving them black rubber donuts around helps with life.

I run -3 front and about -1.8 to - 2 rear with 3r and they seem really happy. I usually don't cord tires just cycle them out, only ones I cord is regular supercar 3 because they stay fast. 3R slows down a decent bit with heat cycles but it's still a "quick" tire even after event 3 or 4 it's just loose and may need to drive the car a bit more...

I really love that tire, just as others have said respect the tire in cold conditions.. Especially session 1. It is almost like driving on ice for the first lap

 

[Fabman]

Damn, Fab, I thought doing it once a day was good, but I can sure understand your race prep. My lousy back means once a day ( usually with friends helping ) is about all I can make and usually I get pretty darn tire wire. I have a lot of friends tell me I am extremely smooth on track, but looking at my times last year I think it is a way to tell an older racer, " Dude , you are getting slower!"

I rarely run the same set of tires 2 times in a row so Xing them while they are off is no biggie. I have tires just for practice, a set just for qualifying and a set to race on so I always have the best heat cycles where they do the most good. If I ran the same tires all weekend by the time I got to the last race my tires would be the most worn out right where I need them to be the best…for the main event. Meanwhile Id use up the best heat cycles where they mean the least….in practice. I also switch up compounds depending on the track/race/ambient temp so I bring 4 sets with me and mark the tires each time they hit the track so I know what I have. I brought 5 sets to nationals.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Dang Fab, you bring more tires to Nationals than most of us use in 2 years, ha! Oh, I get smoothness, Instructing for over 20 years I often grab the Novices who are smooth to instruct over the ones who want to demonstrate their High Level of Testosterone. Smooth is easy to work at getting faster, whereas inconsistent , yet semi talented butt drivers, take much longer to improve, imho. I was just trying to illustrate that some friends teasing me about how smooth I am is tongue in cheek smack talk letting me know I am not quite as quick as I used to be. Funny, as you get older, just being competitive feels about as good as winning --- well, not quite, but placing in the trophies helps.

 

[o-man]

They dont tolerate too much camber.

Define. I've got about the same camber Bill has and I still see more outside shoulder wear than inside tread wear. Been thinking about cutting strut towers to get around -3* of camber.
I agree, they are down right scary in the cold. It may be that two of mine are cycled out and rear end wouldn't stay under me, but I did very little driving on them in temps hovering in the mid 40's. What I did do was mount two of the regular SC3 on the front and put the 3R on the rear. Was then able to get in some laps within half a second of my fastest laps at VIR

 

[Fabman]

Dang Fab, you bring more tires to Nationals than most of us use in 2 years, ha! Oh, I get smoothness, Instructing for over 20 years I often grab the Novices who are smooth to instruct over the ones who want to demonstrate their High Level of Testosterone. Smooth is easy to work at getting faster, whereas inconsistent , yet semi talented butt drivers, take much longer to improve, imho. I was just trying to illustrate that some friends teasing me about how smooth I am is tongue in cheek smack talk letting me know I am not quite as quick as I used to be. Funny, as you get older, just being competitive feels about as good as winning --- well, not quite, but placing in the trophies helps.

They aren't all new...that's the beauty of the system, I rotate the tires throughout the weekend. Practise tires are used (all but cycled out) tires. Qualifying tires are just for qualifying so they are only used for 4 laps at a time and stay fast for many races. Race tires are usually new for the weekend...the next weekend I will put 2 new tires on the outside and 2 used ones on the inside. When the inside ones cycle out I put the outside ones on the inside and 2 more new ones on the outside. When those are close to cycling out they become practise tires, so they all get used up....I just use the good part for the important races and use the crappy part for when it doesn't matter. I get all the use out of each tire so it doesn't cost any more, you just have to have a lot of wheels and mind your management.

 

[flyhalf]

Define. I've got about the same camber Bill has and I still see more outside shoulder wear than inside tread wear. Been thinking about cutting strut towers to get around -3* of camber.
I agree, they are down right scary in the cold. It may be that two of mine are cycled out and rear end wouldn't stay under me, but I did very little driving on them in temps hovering in the mid 40's. What I did do was mount two of the regular SC3 on the front and put the 3R on the rear. Was then able to get in some laps within half a second of my fastest laps at VIR

3 is fine. More will be issue on wearing the inside. Especially with aggressive toe.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

0-man,
Not a fan of mixing tires, even within the same brand, and I would bet you would be even faster with 3Rs all the way around. The time to heat up , to meet the best operating temp and the slip angles will be different with the differing compounds I have found on a road course. I know some guys who try differing brands, etc. for autocrossing , but they are only looking for 50 second times to raise temps and get sticky tires. Having two different tire compounds ripping down the back esses at VIR between 120-140 before a brake and turn, I would stay with one tire, one brand, one model , one compound, imho.

 

[Fabman]

0-man,
Not a fan of mixing tires, even within the same brand, and I would bet you would be even faster with 3Rs all the way around. The time to heat up , to meet the best operating temp and the slip angles will be different with the differing compounds I have found on a road course. I know some guys who try differing brands, etc. for autocrossing , but they are only looking for 50 second times to raise temps and get sticky tires. Having two different tire compounds ripping down the back esses at VIR between 120-140 before a brake and turn, I would stay with one tire, one brand, one model , one compound, imho.

I dont mix compounds on the car, just different sets of different compounds, although I would not be afraid of mixing them on the car. Laguna Seca and Thunderhill are both predominantly left hand turns. Oval track cars always run softer tires on the inside and I did that for decades. You could totally do it at these 2 tracks. Sonoma is lots of lefts and rights so I have run stickers on the front and scuffs on the back in the past.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Aggressive toe.... means Expensive toe!!

 

[o-man]

0-man,
Not a fan of mixing tires, even within the same brand, and I would bet you would be even faster with 3Rs all the way around. The time to heat up , to meet the best operating temp and the slip angles will be different with the differing compounds I have found on a road course. I know some guys who try differing brands, etc. for autocrossing , but they are only looking for 50 second times to raise temps and get sticky tires. Having two different tire compounds ripping down the back esses at VIR between 120-140 before a brake and turn, I would stay with one tire, one brand, one model , one compound, imho.

I usually don't. But the previous trip to VIR was very scary. I think The back tires were more or less heat cycled out and had no grip. So I set up the car to understeer by mixing compounds. As I stated before, the car worked very well. There will be two more tires, hopefully by the next event in February.
So far I haven't run any faster with the 3R's at VIR than with the 3's. Strange I know.

 

[Egparson202]

I usually don't. But the previous trip to VIR was very scary. I think The back tires were more or less heat cycled out and had no grip. So I set up the car to understeer by mixing compounds. As I stated before, the car worked very well. There will be two more tires, hopefully by the next event in February.
So far I haven't run any faster with the 3R's at VIR than with the 3's. Strange I know.

Yo! I only have a couple sessions on 3R’s, and you know that in my case the driver is still the biggest variable… But I found the 3R’s to be quicker than the 3s by a good margin. For me they were 0.5 sec faster than 350R-spec Cup2’s. Not like A7’s but maybe pretty close to R7’s…I haven’t tried HoHo’s) on the Shelby so I couldn’t say.

In any case, I have a set of 3R’s with just 2 sessions on them bagged up for the spring. Let’s plan a trip to VIR!

 

[Fabman]

Aggressive toe.... means Expensive toe!!

I keep mine around 1/16th to 1/8" out

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Fab,
The advice I am stating on mixing tires, tread patterns, brands, compounds is based on the idea that 80% of the folks on here are doing events, HPDEs, and Time Trials and not racing W2W as you do , or as I used to do. I still find using different tires, even the same brands, are a calculated risk for many drivers and especially those new or with few years of experience. You are a National Champion, mine was 20 years ago, my concern for tire mismatching is actually based on selling 3000 + Performance Cars, and Instructing , more than the 42 years of track or racing experience. The information I leave is not based on super talents like yourself, but for the average Trackrat, and I offer not because I know it all , but more from observation and episodes. I can't count the number of accidents customers have called me on when driving in cool weather , often with two different tires, or those who had an accident at the track , with similar situations. Hanging with various Tire Manufacturers over the years , seeing compounding changes on a single tire within one year, and listening to their advice , I became a strong advocate to alert folks to the dangers of mixing up rubber. Instructing I have been on some spooky rides with folks with tires that were not the same brand, and I have seen my share of off tracks and even accidents. I can remember racing at Mid Ohio and winning my Class by a large margin and then discussing the set up with Bobby Archer since I was running a completely different tire pressure set up than everyone else. He went on to explain his pressures and how they varied side to side, and that taught me a ton 20 years ago. He also showed me a book with tire pressures for a zillion of the tracks he had run and that is part of the reason , even today , we have Tire Gurus like Blacksheep 1, because it is an arcane Art and few are really adept at it. I ask questions, still ,after all these years because 2-10 examples often give me a better consensus of what might work based on different tracks and skill levels. Skill level is the key , because all the guys I happen to know running 3Rs are HPDE drivers and out to have fun, so I welcomed Flyhalf's advice to see how close it might be to what info I had gotten from others. His answer was similar , but as someone talented like he is, I will likely run the tires at a lower hot temp than I got from others.

So, for folks like you, who are on a different level than the majority of folks on here, me included, I still think understanding the tires on their car is enough of a challenge than mixing brands or compounds/tread design. This can be quite dangerous for many and that is from my unique experience over the years selling hot machines, even setting many of them up for track events ( we had a Motorsports Division ), and also running at 20+ tracks. The episodes I saw or heard about, along with my friends in the Tire business have been the reason I caution so many about this possible problematic set up.

I hope this conveys, better , what I was trying to express to the majority of the members on our site.