MT82 Problems...What else is new?

[biggsy]

As a mechanic, fab shop supervisor and fleet manager I've seen both sides of this problem. Sometimes the dealership is the magician and solves the problem and you feel like an idiot and sometimes the dealer is so daft you wonder how they manage to tie their shoes. That's when it was just more efficient to take the bull by the horn and figure it out ourselves.
There are a number of things that can fowl up a clutch job.
Sure was nice when there was an "inspection" cover you could drop and see exactly what's going on with the clutch in there. Makes me think that I'll pop a hole in mine when I drop the trans so one could use a bore scope to see what's happening.

Yea Ive watched YouTube videos of clutch installs and it seems straight forward but I haven’t had the experience personally so I don’t know all that could go wrong. I did bring up to the service advisor about the possibility that something wasn’t put back right but he shut that down lol.

I have a leak in my truck‘s radiator so at least I have something to keep me busy while I play the waiting game on the mustang

 

[biggsy]

Sooooo I just got a call from the service advisor and just what I feared happened. They are unable to replicate the problem. He says the clutch pedal is normal. I know for a fact that it is not and something is wrong. He recalled the same issue last year with me when I picked up the car for it to fail again a week later. He says I should take it back and drive it until it happens again but I don’t want to be somewhere and get stuck (that almost happened last year). Again I look like I’m crying wolf. If I get there and the pedal is not correct I will request that the tech come and see what I’m talking about. Went to 4 -5 shops paying diagnostic fees for something I knew was wrong but was told it was “normal”. Not trying to go through this again. Vent over lol.

 

[302BOB]

I look like I’m crying wolf

Poetic justice would be for the service advisor to take your car and drive it for a week and let him get stuck with that "normal" clutch. I feel your anguish and wish you luck getting your car back to a REAL normal....

 

[biggsy]

Poetic justice would be for the service advisor to take your car and drive it for a week and let him get stuck with that "normal" clutch. I feel your anguish and wish you luck getting your car back to a REAL normal....

Lol. I don’t even know if he would be able to tell because after they did the warranty work the first time and I brought it back the following week, he was forcing it into first and blaming the clutch. Nothing against him because he definitely saved me a good amount of money in the past and works with me but I rather talk directly with the tech.
Going to pick up tomorrow and will see how it is.

 

[mikeD4V]

Have you tried adjusting the lockout on the MGW? The shifter may need some adjustment for the new clutch.

 

[vetracer]

So I talked about this in my build theard a year ago but hoping to yield so more answers. I will try to keep the story short:

Last year January 2021, I have my TOB and clutch master (or slave?) cylinder replaced under warranty. Since they were dropping the transmission, I decided to have them put in an Exedy Hyper Single. I get the car back a couple weeks later and I was (still am) having an issue where I sometimes cannot put the car in first after starting the car. At stop lights I would have to turn the car off and put it in first then turn it on. Any other time when driving, shifting would be flawless. It is quite embarrassing in a parking lot when trying to park that I some times have to turn my car off to go in reverse or first. To this day I am still having this issue after trying all of the following:

Vacuum bled the system
Pumped the clutch pedal 100000x
changed the reservoir cap
replaced the reservoir to the clutch slave cylinder with the steeda tube.(this helped a lot but didn't completely fix)
adjusted the MGW reverse lockout (I know it wouldn't do anything but I was desperate)
bled the brakes

I did all of the above and a year later I still have issues. At the time I decided to just put up with it and since I'm still covered under powertrain to just wait until it goes all the way and have it replaced. Before the warranty work it never did this and I don't see how it would get like this after a clutch change. I went back to the dealer and they said that they couldn't reproduced the problem but I went for a test drive with the service advisor and he kept forcing into first and I told him it should be that hard to do. Now I'm thinking my shift forks are bent due to forcing into first. some times Iwhen shifting I can feel in my hand grinding or as though the transmission is still spinning. I suggested maybe the tech didn't install it back right but was told that's not possible.

What do you think is the issue?

The only stopping me from taking it back is that I know there is a long wait on transmissions but I might have to or just buy a used Transmission and have a local shop rebuild it.

You didn't mention which year your car was. I ask because there are two different MT-82 bell housings, one longer then the other marked AA or AB on the bell housing. . The longer AB version uses a .444" spacer behind the throw out bearing. If the spacer is not replaced the Throw out bearing travel may not be enough to get clutch to allow transmission to go into gear.
As for an Exedy clutch mine exploded on first downshift from 5th to 4th on first lap after installation. I should mention I did break in before going to track.

 

[Mad Hatter]

OOOH,, Been there,,, done that.... twice. Diagnosis with the exedy was bad install. And on a spec 3, diagnosis... was dont buy a spec 3! Spec 2+ was eternal but the 3 lasted a few track days before falling apart.

 

[biggsy]

Have you tried adjusting the lockout on the MGW? The shifter may need some adjustment for the new clutch.

multiple times. Decided I’ll just wait until it goes and upgrade to a built one or TR3160. We will see if my lotto numbers hit

You didn't mention which year your car was. I ask because there are two different MT-82 bell housings, one longer then the other marked AA or AB on the bell housing. . The longer AB version uses a .444" spacer behind the throw out bearing. If the spacer is not replaced the Throw out bearing travel may not be enough to get clutch to allow transmission to go into gear.
As for an Exedy clutch mine exploded on first downshift from 5th to 4th on first lap after installation. I should mention I did break in before going to track.

View attachment 73297

View attachment 73298

I suspected install error but the techs at the dealership are not going to drop the trans to check a “what if” unfortunately. I thought about the spacer and crossed check the part number on the service sheet. I have the correct throw out bearing.
2017 car

 

[biggsy]

So it happened again twice this weekend. Both in the morning. I get to my car and the pedal is to the floor. After driving 15-20 minutes the pedal comes back up to normal. When I took it to the dealer and they said couldn’t replicate the issue to warrant them doing work on it, they mentioned that the TOB could be binding. I am still able to shift before it comes back to normal but then it’s engagement point is like half an inch from the floor and if you are familiar with the Hyper Single, it has a high engagement point. At this point I’m just dealing with it because I drive it only on weekends and it come back to normal after 20 minutes. Obviously something is wrong but constantly taking it to the dealer and having them call me to pick it up because they cannot reproduce is getting tiring. At this point I’m looking to piece together (very slowly ) a 3160 swap. I live alone and the dealer is 20 minutes away. The Uber rides are adding up. I work throughout the week so I can only take it on weekends (or every other Friday).

Two questions for you readers:

1) Do you think it is an issue with the Slave cylinder (at the pedal) or the TOB?

2) Am I wrong for thinking that being that I have been back 4-5 times after they did the warranty work, they should drop the transmission anyways to see what’s going on? Clearly I’m not taking there for my enjoyment.

 

[TMSBOSS]

If its a Master cylinder issue, that's what I had, same symptoms, the Tremec will not fix the problem. I swapped out the master cylinder, pulled the pedal box and replaced master, and the problem was fixed.
My best guess was the seals in the master were getting soft and with use, heat, they would start to seal. Again, best guess.
I was running Castrol fluid in my brakes and clutch. I have read several posts stating this can lead to issues with soft parts/seals.
Is this your issue? Could be.

 

[2012-Boss]

What is the Exedy Hyper Single part number you installed? The Exedy's are designed as drop in replacements using the factory specified slave cylinder. You do not need to change slave cylinder spacers unless you either installed the wrong clutch kit or you change the slave cylinder to a different model (i.e. GT/Boss slave for a GT500 slave).

You don't need to worry about the hyper single falling apart like the pictures above.

S197 and S550 Mustangs do not have TOB. It is a hydraulic slave cylinder. The slave incorporates the bearing. The slave is also prone to failure.

 

[RES_22]

Like TMS said, very unlikely that this is a gearbox issue.

If I was you, I'd rent a car, leave your Mustang with either the svc tech OR Svc Mgr for a couple of days...see if it will act up for them when it's cold. I've had very good results over the years with this approach with a lot of different cars/brands.

Also as TMS says...SRF is known to do funky stuff to low mass rubber bits following extended exposure. As such, his probable failure mechanism makes a lot of sense.

 

[biggsy]

If its a Master cylinder issue, that's what I had, same symptoms, the Tremec will not fix the problem. I swapped out the master cylinder, pulled the pedal box and replaced master, and the problem was fixed.
My best guess was the seals in the master were getting soft and with use, heat, they would start to seal. Again, best guess.
I was running Castrol fluid in my brakes and clutch. I have read several posts stating this can lead to issues with soft parts/seals.
Is this your issue? Could be.

I've seen the same posts. I am running Motul 600 so I shouldnt have that problem. I am thinking about pulling the pedal box since I dont have to drop the trans for that.

What is the Exedy Hyper Single part number you installed? The Exedy's are designed as drop in replacements using the factory specified slave cylinder. You do not need to change slave cylinder spacers unless you either installed the wrong clutch kit or you change the slave cylinder to a different model (i.e. GT/Boss slave for a GT500 slave).

You don't need to worry about the hyper single falling apart like the pictures above.

S197 and S550 Mustangs do not have TOB. It is a hydraulic slave cylinder. The slave incorporates the bearing. The slave is also prone to failure.

Sorry for the misuse of the terminology (still learning). I know I didnt install the wrong clutch kit. I checked the part number and verified multiple times when i received it. The slave cylinder andwas replaced under warranty and i checked the part number they used and it is correct.

Like TMS said, very unlikely that this is a gearbox issue.

If I was you, I'd rent a car, leave your Mustang with either the svc tech OR Svc Mgr for a couple of days...see if it will act up for them when it's cold. I've had very good results over the years with this approach with a lot of different cars/brands.

Also as TMS says...SRF is known to do funky stuff to low mass rubber bits following extended exposure. As such, his probable failure mechanism makes a lot of sense.

I have a second vehicle which is my daily so I dont have problem leaving it with them. But when if I take it to them on a Friday or even a Monday it sits for about 4 days before they can get to it. They go to the car and the pedal works as it should they close the door and call me to pick it up. I wish they could just inspect it and if everything looks normal, I will happily pay the diagnostic fee, but to not do anything at all is tough.

I have Motul in so dont have those SRF issues.

 

[TMSBOSS]

The pedal box is not too difficult to R&R. Be sure you don't drop the assembly when its out. Its made of plastic and will break if it slips and falls. Don't ask me how I know..... and Superglue is a fantastic product.
I had a hard time pumping the pedal to bleed the master. I pulled a vacuum on the system and it bleed the air out immediately. A mity vac and a rubber stopper in the reservoir did the trick.

Good luck with the project.

 

[biggsy]

Just an update…
After walking to my car three days in a row and the clutch pedal to the floor, I figured enough was enough. I emailed the service manager and he replied with a CC including his shop foreman. Towed the car to the dealership and was able to show the issue. The foreman said he will reach out to Ford Engineering and see what’s going on. Hoping for positive news later this week. It does delay my track year getting started but I rather put this behind me.

 

[biggsy]

Can’t believe it…

My truck died on me last week ironically after I dropped the car off. Truck is at my mechanic and car at dealership as you know. Rental car cost adding up so I came to the dealership to pick up the mustang and take the loss of them trying to diagnose because as of Saturday I hadn’t heard from them and was told the clutch was still functioning properly. Came to the dealership and the advisor said he hasn’t heard anything but I can take the car. Tech comes out and says no because they got in touch with hotline and was told it’s most likely a seal broken In the master cylinder causing a slow leak which is why it would drop to the floor overnight. They are going to replace it! He said hotline told him if he kept trying to vacuum bleed the system it would make it worse which he and I thought was weird. Anyways…I’m happy they don’t think I was talking crazy for the past year.
Now time to pay for another rental…such is life.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I had the same problem and solution.
With the MT-82 issues being well known. Diagnosis tends to lean to the trans.

 

[biggsy]

I figured it could be that but doubted it at the same time because the problem occurred right after the first repair.
So they tried getting me to pay for it. $1k to replace the MC. Lol. Warranty on warranty work/parts done is one year or 12k miles whereas paying for parts in cash is 2 years. I’m 2 months over the 12 month period. I told them to try harder because I’ve been there over 5 times in the past year with the same problem and the first time was two weeks after they did the warranty work. They sent to ford for approval and somehow that $1k went down to $360(funny how that works). Ford agreed to cover 80% leaving me to pay about $77.
I happened to talk to the foreman before I left and he said he also suspects the issue to be my stainless steel clutch line. I bought it from JPC many years ago. He said the line is much longer than stock and has a bend higher than the clutch line therefore the system may have never been fully bled. They are putting the stock line back also. He said he will only charge half an hour of labor for that. Both parts will be in tomorrow with an estimated completion of tomorrow afternoon.

 

[bnight]

I figured it could be that but doubted it at the same time because the problem occurred right after the first repair.
So they tried getting me to pay for it. $1k to replace the MC. Lol. Warranty on warranty work/parts done is one year or 12k miles whereas paying for parts in cash is 2 years. I’m 2 months over the 12 month period. I told them to try harder because I’ve been there over 5 times in the past year with the same problem and the first time was two weeks after they did the warranty work. They sent to ford for approval and somehow that $1k went down to $360(funny how that works). Ford agreed to cover 80% leaving me to pay about $77.
I happened to talk to the foreman before I left and he said he also suspects the issue to be my stainless steel clutch line. I bought it from JPC many years ago. He said the line is much longer than stock and has a bend higher than the clutch line therefore the system may have never been fully bled. They are putting the stock line back also. He said he will only charge half an hour of labor for that. Both parts will be in tomorrow with an estimated completion of tomorrow afternoon.

The stainless steel clutch line is in fact longer. But I had the same issue with stock clutch line. And the reason is that if you only bleed your brakes without bleeding the clutch there is a very good chance you are going to bleed the MC dry which lead to premature failure. Something else to also consider is that stock clutch is not good for track use so when you overheat it the pressure plate fingers bend and press the through out bearing so this is leading to premature failure on the through out bearing. Hope this helps.

 

[biggsy]

The stainless steel clutch line is in fact longer. But I had the same issue with stock clutch line. And the reason is that if you only bleed your brakes without bleeding the clutch there is a very good chance you are going to bleed the MC dry which lead to premature failure. Something else to also consider is that stock clutch is not good for track use so when you overheat it the pressure plate fingers bend and press the through out bearing so this is leading to premature failure on the through out bearing. Hope this helps.

It could’ve been the way I installed it. Never bled my MC when I bled my brakes before track days. I saw a thread on how to do it but didn’t think it was necessary. I will be going with a divorced set up within two weeks to help the issue.