My motor blew up......now what?

[docs302]

There's quite an education on many topics here, we cover a lot of ground.

My wife wants to retire out west and loves CA. I need to work a few more years so maybe I find something part-time near you and I can sweep the floors and learn the other days!

 

[docs302]

Decided to stick with the sandwich plate vs remote mount for the sake of cost and because I already know how to design it. I was going to get the high-flow Setrab sandwich plate to replace the Mishimoto and switch to AN12 lines. Here was the response from Setrab:

My tech noted to me before the packing of your order that our -12 size fittings do not work with our 19-SP76 oil filter adapter. As is not necessary or recommended to use these larger size lines on the pressure side of a wet-sump oiling circuit utilizing and intermediate size spin-on oil filter, we did not design it to be so.

They then went on to recommend a cast iron version of the same plate with a 180 degree thermostat for AN12 lines.

 

[2012-Boss]

I see what the issue based on the picture they have up now. The hex fitting on the -12AN Proline 22 adapter is much larger than the -10AN. The ports are spaced to closely together to screw the -12AN Proline adapter into the billet housing. Which is kind of weird, because the internal ports on that adapter are larger than -12AN.

Moroso makes an adapter that supports -12AN fittings. But, I think you current cooling issue is airflow and airflow management through the grill.

 

[TMSBOSS]

A cheap test would be to run the car without the grill. I did this when I had heat issues and was surprised with the positive results.

 

[thelostotter]

I am using -12 lines with the Setrab 19-SPT76-22-180-22 adapter. The ports are close together so you need to clock the flats on the fittings right to get it to work - a flat on one adapter hex needs to be facing the other port to give enough clearance for the other hex to rotate.

Yes there is a difference in pressure and cooling efficiency over the -10 lines. No I can't remember how much.

 

[docs302]

I see what the issue based on the picture they have up now. The hex fitting on the -12AN Proline 22 adapter is much larger than the -10AN. The ports are spaced to closely together to screw the -12AN Proline adapter into the billet housing. Which is kind of weird, because the internal ports on that adapter are larger than -12AN.

Moroso makes an adapter that supports -12AN fittings. But, I think you current cooling issue is airflow and airflow management through the grill.

That's my feeling as well. I'm not saying the 12AN lines won't be an upgrade but I don't think the 10AN lines caused the overheat. I have the open grilles back in and I think that will take care of it along with the coolant system being free of air.

 

[2012-Boss]

Don't forget the radiator cap is one-time use. If the engine overheated, you should replace the cap with a new one. I always carry a spare in the trailer.

 

[docs302]

Don't forget the radiator cap is one-time use. If the engine overheated, you should replace the cap with a new one. I always carry a spare in the trailer.

Did not know that......thanks

 

[Fabman]

Don't forget the radiator cap is one-time use. If the engine overheated, you should replace the cap with a new one. I always carry a spare in the trailer.

I had no idea about this....

 

[2012-Boss]

Sal, you are not using the plastic factory cap that comes on at least the 2011 and newer cars. I do not know if yours is one time use or not.

 

[Fabman]

Sal, you are not using the plastic factory cap that comes on at least the 2011 and newer cars. I do not know if yours is one time use or not.

No, I am using a 32 psi cap. Stock car style.

 

[JAJ]

Decided to stick with the sandwich plate vs remote mount for the sake of cost and because I already know how to design it. I was going to get the high-flow Setrab sandwich plate to replace the Mishimoto and switch to AN12 lines. Here was the response from Setrab:

My tech noted to me before the packing of your order that our -12 size fittings do not work with our 19-SP76 oil filter adapter. As is not necessary or recommended to use these larger size lines on the pressure side of a wet-sump oiling circuit utilizing and intermediate size spin-on oil filter, we did not design it to be so.

They then went on to recommend a cast iron version of the same plate with a 180 degree thermostat for AN12 lines.

I've done a load of searches of all the forums I've been on and I can't find a set of posts from back in the Boss 302 racing days that talked about using -12AN for oil coolers. As I recall, there were a series of engine failures in race cars that were traced back to low oil pressure caused by flow restrictions caused by long -10AN lines. Maybe somebody else here remembers.

 

[docs302]

I've done a load of searches of all the forums I've been on and I can't find a set of posts from back in the Boss 302 racing days that talked about using -12AN for oil coolers. As I recall, there were a series of engine failures in race cars that were traced back to low oil pressure caused by flow restrictions caused by long -10AN lines. Maybe somebody else here remembers.

I ended up getting the cast aluminum Setrab unit with the 180 degree thermostat and a spacer so I have an NPT port for my temp sensor. The 12AN lines will be assembled by Improved Racing with the Raceflux lines. I didn't feel like doing the lines myself. Hope to have it all together by next week so I can try and get the car out again for a shakedown before VIR.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I've done a load of searches of all the forums I've been on and I can't find a set of posts from back in the Boss 302 racing days that talked about using -12AN for oil coolers. As I recall, there were a series of engine failures in race cars that were traced back to low oil pressure caused by flow restrictions caused by long -10AN lines. Maybe somebody else here remembers.

Call Phoenix, Call Kohr..

 

[JAJ]

Call Phoenix, Call Kohr..

I'm pretty sure that Rehagen was part of the thread that I was recalling. Now that @docs302 says he's using12AN lines, it's all good. As I recall the issue wasn't so much the size of the -10 lines, it was the way they reduced flow and pressure over longer lengths needed to get to the oil cooler and back. -12's didn't do that.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I think the fact that ford changed is oil filter relocator form 10-AN to 12-AN is a good indicator. Looking though my forum posts, when I switched to a Setrab oil cooler from stock boss unit, I had 10-AN lines, and max oil pressure went from 85 to 75psi, I thought it was because we ported the block etc and maybe volume was higher at a lower pressure... When my AED built gen 1/3 hybrid arrived, the Ford gen2 12-AN filter relocation plate had no arrived yet so we logged the car with the 10-AN setup... Again max psi was at 75. Switched the lines and plate as soon as it arrived and hot track psi jumped to over 90 psi. My mechanic was very skeptical about it at first and thought I was wasting time/money until he saw the change. Now he puts 12-AN in all his customers cars.

The lines were pretty short as the oil filter is a close as we could put it. Glad you switched to 12-AN!! Am pretty sure this cost me two engines.

 

[Coz]

@Fabman @Mad Hatter Is the issue of pressure loss with 12-AN vs 10-AN lines mainly encountered when using relocated oil filters (due to the additional lengths of plumbing involved) or does it also apply to remote oil coolers plumbed directly to a sandwich plate?

Edit: Sandwich plate @ stock Gen 1 oil filter location.

 

[Fabman]

@Fabman @Mad Hatter Is the issue of pressure loss with 12-AN vs 10-AN lines mainly encountered when using relocated oil filters (due to the additional lengths of plumbing involved) or does it also apply to remote oil coolers plumbed directly to a sandwich plate?

Edit: Sandwich plate @ stock Gen 1 oil filter location.

My strategy is to limit all restrictions everywhere.
Doesn't do much good to have a firehose if it has a hole in the end of it the size of a dime.
Oil is the lifeblood of the engine, the harder you push, the more its needed.
What do you get when you have clogged arteries and you try to run a marathon?
A heart attack. That's pretty much the medical equivalence of a rod hanging of the block.

 

[Fabman]

@Fabman @Mad Hatter Is the issue of pressure loss with 12-AN vs 10-AN lines mainly encountered when using relocated oil filters (due to the additional lengths of plumbing involved) or does it also apply to remote oil coolers plumbed directly to a sandwich plate?

Edit: Sandwich plate @ stock Gen 1 oil filter location.

Now remember my caviat....my reference is full tilt racing.
Can you get away with less if you push less?
Of course you can....but can anyone tell me exactly where that line is?

 

[SMGDHG]

First time out on track yesterday for an easy TNiA session and the new power plant overheats in two laps. It was only in the high 70's I believe. My stock motor with the stock radiator, Setrab 925 cooler hung in front with Mach1's bracket, electric WP, coolant and open grille never gave me any issues.

This current set up is a large 948 cooler hung up high with the same bracket and a 3-pass Fluidyne running plain water, same electric water pump but with the stock Boss grille and added protective wire mesh backing. I also left the fog light covers on. I poured about 32oz of a high performance coolant into the catch tank and that filled it.

I let the car idle today for 20 min and water temp remained between 170-180. I noticed the oil pressure was only around 20-25 at idle yesterday after returning to the paddock but today it was 40-45. It spikes to the gauge max of 100 when I rev.

I have attached a pic of the current grille and previous. I'm thinking it has to be air flow? Is the Setrab covering too much of the radiator? I noticed a good portion of the upper radiator is visible above the frame and blocked by a wire harness which seems a waste and dangerous to the wire and plastic because that metal was hot.

Thoughts?

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Not sure if this has already been said, or maybe you re-installed it, but you need to reinstall the radiator plastic cover that goes between the plastic grill and the back of the radiator. Air will absolutely escape out the top of the radiator without this piece in place. The resistance to flow the air is met with when you combine the Oil cooler, ac condenser, radiator, fan shroud and engine bay will result in air wanting to escape up and around the radiator if you don't have that top piece installed. I may or may not have tested this theory with a leaf blower, but I digress.....science