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Naturally Aspirated H.P. Gains

I had been considering adding a supercharger over the winter but am now leaning towards staying naturally aspirated and I am looking for recommendations for H.P. gains. Besides long tube headers, cold air box and a tune what other modifications could I do to gain additional horsepower and torque at a reasonable cost? I know others have went the CJ intake with a dual throttle body, bigger M.A.S., bigger injectors and cam change but that can get quite expensive.
 
E85 I thought is good for some more power, plus you could get a single piece DS and buy lighter wheels. Ofcourse wheels, DS, rotors and the like won't increase HP but it will decrease rotational mass so the HP you have doesn't have to work as hard to move the car.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
Headers
CAI
Throttle body
Intake
CAMS
Stroker kit on the engine
More porting on the heads
Bigger valves.


I am running:
Headers
Cat back
CAI
47lbs injectors
E85
DSS driveshaft
Centerforce DYAD Clutch


I make 435 at the wheels.

My next move is a beefcake special paxton 2200SL supercharger kit (5300 Bucks).

If you are going to want to go internal and swap to a Cobra Jet intake and all that you will quickly come to the cost of a beefcake special supercharger kit and wont make near the power plus it will IMO be much more driver friendly.
 
Justin said:
Headers
CAI
Throttle body
Intake
CAMS
Stroker kit on the engine
More porting on the heads
Bigger valves.


I am running:
Headers
Cat back
CAI
47lbs injectors
E85
DSS driveshaft
Centerforce DYAD Clutch


I make 435 at the wheels.

My next move is a beefcake special paxton 2200SL supercharger kit (5300 Bucks).

If you are going to want to go internal and swap to a Cobra Jet intake and all that you will quickly come to the cost of a beefcake special supercharger kit and wont make near the power plus it will IMO be much more driver friendly.


Question on the E85: Can I run E85 on a stock boss and not worry about anything? What precautions or additions should I take before putting E85 in the tank. Thanks brother.
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,552
2,392
Arizona, USA
yankeehick said:
Question on the E85: Can I run E85 on a stock boss and not worry about anything? What precautions or additions should I take before putting E85 in the tank. Thanks brother.

You'll need larger injectors.



Justin--what was your baseline dyno? Seems that these cars put out about 430whp with just LT headers...
 
ArizonaGT said:
You'll need larger injectors.



Justin--what was your baseline dyno? Seems that these cars put out about 430whp with just LT headers...

Thanks Arizona, I'm getting the beefcake vortech installed next week (being built currently and will ship tomorrow). As you already know the kit comes standard with the ID1000s. Should I be good to go here?
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
yankeehick said:
Thanks Arizona, I'm getting the beefcake vortech installed next week (being built currently and will ship tomorrow). As you already know the kit comes standard with the ID1000s. Should I be good to go here?
The ID1000's should be fine. I dont know if your stock fuel pump will be up to the task to run E85 on a supercharged motor. I would contact your tuner and ask them what would be required to run E85 with XX boost.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
ArizonaGT said:
You'll need larger injectors.



Justin--what was your baseline dyno? Seems that these cars put out about 430whp with just LT headers...
I dont have baseline numbers really. I have that I made 408 on e85 without headers with Magnaflow comp cat back and steeda CAI. then made 435 with the headers on 93. havent gotten it on the dyno with the E85 and headers.
 
401
0
I had LT headers, O/R x-pipe, JPC over-axles, Airaid CAI, and Borla S-Types with a Bama Race tune and made 420 rwhp on 94 pump gas.
 
I wouldn't be suprised at all if any of you guys went back to the stock airbox and didn't lose hardly, if any, power at all.
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
Mountain50 said:
I wouldn't be suprised at all if any of you guys went back to the stock airbox and didn't lose hardly, if any, power at all.
the gains from the CAI's are in the larger MAF diameter, so you will lose power with the stock air box.

Justin, I think its a stretch to call the CJ intake an "internal mod". I get the technicality of what an internal mod is, but with these engines, its about as hard as changing spark plugs, which are not considered an internal mod.

for the OP, from the gains folks have seen, the CJ intake (if they ever actually release it) with the big blade throttle body and a huge diameter CAI will be the best way to increase torque and horsepower without a supercharger. ford really nailed this one! picks up low end torque and makes power to 7700! you normally have to sacrifice torque to gain high end power.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
pufferfish said:
the gains from the CAI's are in the larger MAF diameter, so you will lose power with the stock air box.

Justin, I think its a stretch to call the CJ intake an "internal mod". I get the technicality of what an internal mod is, but with these engines, its about as hard as changing spark plugs, which are not considered an internal mod.

for the OP, from the gains folks have seen, the CJ intake (if they ever actually release it) with the big blade throttle body and a huge diameter CAI will be the best way to increase torque and horsepower without a supercharger. ford really nailed this one! picks up low end torque and makes power to 7700! you normally have to sacrifice torque to gain high end power.
I meant like cams and stroker kit.

The CJ intake cost is just way more then its worth when you get all the things you need to install it. CJ cams plus that intake and you are past half way to a blower throw in another 1500 or more for full exhuast and you are now just a few dollars short of a blower from beefcake. Havent even bought a CAI and tuner yet at around 700-800. want a quality tune add 250 to that. you see how you now could have bought a paxton from beefcake and make more power with that kit alone then every na mod you could throw at it and have it still drive like its bone stock around town.
 
pufferfish said:
the gains from the CAI's are in the larger MAF diameter, so you will lose power with the stock air box.

Justin, I think its a stretch to call the CJ intake an "internal mod". I get the technicality of what an internal mod is, but with these engines, its about as hard as changing spark plugs, which are not considered an internal mod.

for the OP, from the gains folks have seen, the CJ intake (if they ever actually release it) with the big blade throttle body and a huge diameter CAI will be the best way to increase torque and horsepower without a supercharger. ford really nailed this one! picks up low end torque and makes power to 7700! you normally have to sacrifice torque to gain high end power.

That particular intake is a different story, haha. It would be even better if it were sealed from heat and drew air from a similar location to stock (cool air from the high pressure area of the front of the fascia). An open filter element like that, without a proper cooler air source, is fine for drag racing where the engine isn't run for very long. But when you get into road racing, where things heat soak and cooler air flow through the engine bay can be... truncated, they aren't so good.
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
Mountain: I am not certain, but I believe all CAI's, including the one for the CJ intake, have a box around the filter to keep hot engine bay heat out. they draw from the front grill, from the same tube the factory intake box does. I have an aeroforce gauge that looks at the intake air temp sensor and I am getting ambient air at all times while moving. it does get hot air when the car sits for a minute or so. I have a C&L intake.

BadPony: cheap horsepower is hard to come by on these engines. the costs for mods go up significantly if you have a shop do the work. if you don't turn your own wrenches, you want to limit yourself to external mods only. here is my DIY list for under $1000 each (in no particular order):

tune
CAI
cat delete
headers and no cat X (cats bring the total above $1k and don't get you out of the emissions issues anyhow)
85mm throttle body (doesn't get you much more than about 3hp though)
hotter coil packs (they supposedly make more power, but some folks have complained about longevity)
aluminum driveshaft (doesn't make more engine hp, but does improve wheel hp)
aluminum flywheel (same as the ds)

that's all I can think of for under a grand. there are suspension things to help bring the power you have to the ground, but I am not sure if that is what you are after.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
pufferfish said:
Mountain: I am not certain, but I believe all CAI's, including the one for the CJ intake, have a box around the filter to keep hot engine bay heat out. they draw from the front grill, from the same tube the factory intake box does. I have an aeroforce gauge that looks at the intake air temp sensor and I am getting ambient air at all times while moving. it does get hot air when the car sits for a minute or so. I have a C&L intake.

BadPony: cheap horsepower is hard to come by on these engines. the costs for mods go up significantly if you have a shop do the work. if you don't turn your own wrenches, you want to limit yourself to external mods only. here is my DIY list for under $1000 each (in no particular order):

tune
CAI
cat delete
headers and no cat X (cats bring the total above $1k and don't get you out of the emissions issues anyhow)
85mm throttle body (doesn't get you much more than about 3hp though)
hotter coil packs (they supposedly make more power, but some folks have complained about longevity)
aluminum driveshaft (doesn't make more engine hp, but does improve wheel hp)
aluminum flywheel (same as the ds)

that's all I can think of for under a grand. there are suspension things to help bring the power you have to the ground, but I am not sure if that is what you are after.
might as well go 90mm if you are spending the money on a TB
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M9926M5090/2011-12-Mustang-50L-90mm-Throttle-Body-M-9926-M5090
over the axle tubes are worth some power. you can kill two birds by getting the magnaflow comp cat back like I have. otherwise JPC sells the over axle pipes that get rid of the resonators and dented sections.
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
the 90 would be nice, but I wouldn't choose it because it requires modifying the intake and fabricating a new gasket. seems hokey to me.

do the over axle pipes really make power? I have never heard of anyone putting them to the test? its my understanding that its just what folks have done to give better sound and get rid of the ugliness of the stock exhaust. same as mufflers...no power gains. I would certainly jump on the full exhaust train if I was convinced it increases power, but I would have to see quantifiable data to believe it.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
pufferfish said:
the 90 would be nice, but I wouldn't choose it because it requires modifying the intake and fabricating a new gasket. seems hokey to me.

do the over axle pipes really make power? I have never heard of anyone putting them to the test? its my understanding that its just what folks have done to give better sound and get rid of the ugliness of the stock exhaust. same as mufflers...no power gains. I would certainly jump on the full exhaust train if I was convinced it increases power, but I would have to see quantifiable data to believe it.
the forum member that is making 500rwhp said that they were worth power. axle backs though are typically not worth any power.

Going with the 90mm isnt that bad lol. take it you never owned a fox body and went with a larger TB? That required a lot of work to get it to fit.

My hind sight is if you want to make over 500rwhp just skip all the bolt ons and buy a supercharger or turbo. The beef cake package is really hard to beat.
 

pufferfish

Supporting Vendor
1,094
66
Maryland
well, hopefully Manuel steps in here to convince me!

no, I have been around the block and back with fox bodies and all the power tricks, but there's a big difference between hogging out a cast aluminum manifold with a huge flat gasket face and the thin wall plastic intake with a groove for a rubber seal, which needs to be ground out for a 90mm to work. it just seems to me you'd be inviting sealing issues. have you done this mod?

in any case, in the CJ article in MMFF, the Ford Engineer talked about the boss program and how originally, they tried a larger TB and it got shelved by the bean counters because it only netted 2-3hp and wasn't worth the extra cost over the stock GT TB. it wasn't until they did the CJ manifold, where they could use twin and monoblade GT500 throttle bodies, that they actually saw reasonable power gains from a TB.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
pufferfish said:
well, hopefully Manuel steps in here to convince me!

no, I have been around the block and back with fox bodies and all the power tricks, but there's a big difference between hogging out a cast aluminum manifold with a huge flat gasket face and the thin wall plastic intake with a groove for a rubber seal, which needs to be ground out for a 90mm to work. it just seems to me you'd be inviting sealing issues. have you done this mod?

in any case, in the CJ article in MMFF, the Ford Engineer talked about the boss program and how originally, they tried a larger TB and it got shelved by the bean counters because it only netted 2-3hp and wasn't worth the extra cost over the stock GT TB. it wasn't until they did the CJ manifold, where they could use twin and monoblade GT500 throttle bodies, that they actually saw reasonable power gains from a TB.
no I havent done the mod. but im not afraid to do it either if I was going to go with a larger TB...black rtv is your friend

If the TB is only worth 3-4hp why bother with it at all? 85 or 90? I think they were going of everything else being stock. exhaust, CAI etc. Thats why since I am running a 103mm MAF housing it would be best to run the biggest TB that I can to match it.

But I am done inputting anything to this thread since its really all speculation and hearsay.

The mods I have I am making 435rwhp money spent so far
AHR long tubes with off road x-pipe(used) 1000
Steeda CAI 390
handheld tuner 380
aed tunes 300
magnaflow comp cat back (used) 400
DSS driveshaft 700
Centerforce DYAD set up 1500
47lbs injectors 300
total 4970

to run a CJ intake 900 plus 500-600 for the tb plus whatever the CAI cost for it whenever it comes out
6370

cams
1200 plus the required supporting parts cam phaser lockouts


see where I am going here? still havent come close to the power you will make with a beefcake special kit and it comes with a tuner ID1000 injectors and lund remote tuning. for 5300 but I know you are going to say "its not good for the track heat soak etc etc" ok I wouldnt know and wouldnt care as I will never being going to a track.
 

OLOABoss

AKA OLOABoss
Once you get beyond an full exhaust and tune you are spending big $$$$ for very little gain ;) At that point may as well go forced induction.

Peter
 

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