Please explain green white checker

[blacksheep-1]

Is it to determine a winner or destroy what's left of the field?
I'm confused

 

[PatrickStapler]

Yes

 

[blacksheep-1]

Lol..

 

[TMSBOSS]

It’s actually to save lives. Too simple?

Racing back to the flag stand almost killed a driver or two. It’s not perfect. Do you prefer the Winner being the guy following the pace car across the finish line? Most don’t.

I don’t like the racing at Daytona. Draft all day for the chance to miss the wreck(s) and then get wrecked any way. Then a second rate hack, famous for wrecking folks missed the big one(s) and wins. It has all the elements of a great show, irony, suspense, the great unknown, a great show. The racing just sucks.

 

[LS128]

To bunch up the field for maximum carnage much like the ever mysterious debris caution

 

[TMSBOSS]

I can think of at least one Mustang team which would have had a better outcome IF other sanctioning bodies had caution flags for debris.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I can think of at least one Mustang team which would have had a better outcome IF other sanctioning bodies had caution flags for debris.

They would have to actually remove the debris from the bus stop for that to be effective

 

[blacksheep-1]

It’s actually to save lives. Too simple?

Racing back to the flag stand almost killed a driver or two. It’s not perfect. Do you prefer the Winner being the guy following the pace car across the finish line? Most don’t.

I don’t like the racing at Daytona. Draft all day for the chance to miss the wreck(s) and then get wrecked any way. Then a second rate hack, famous for wrecking folks missed the big one(s) and wins. It has all the elements of a great show, irony, suspense, the great unknown, a great show. The racing just sucks.

Racing to the flagstand is always bad, especially when the wreck is under the flagstand. But at the end of the day, the race ended under caution anyway, so why destroy half the field in the last 5 laps?

 

[mavisky]

Money, and not the money of the teams. I am sure they have stats on exactly how much it costs them in bad press when a race finishes under caution. Dollars and cents and excitement for the fans over safety and expenses for the teams and drivers.

 

[GB899]

I find the NASCAR banzai charge to the checker stupid.. and so does Richard Petty... they might as well pulle the winner out of a hat... has little to do with car or driver. take the wings & spoilers off and ditch the restricter plates.. let the best car driver win.

 

[JDee]

They can't take the plates off, if they do they will be way over 200 mph on the straights and they know that a car at that speed will not be contained by the fences. It'd be pretty ugly if a car got into the stands.

I'm not a fan of restrictor plate racing as it is now. What if they knock the banks down to 5 or 6 degrees and take the plates off? It works at Pocono, why wouldn't it at a flatter Daytona/Talladega? Maybe not enough carnage would result to suit the knuckle draggers who enjoy seeing cars get wadded up?

 

[TMSBOSS]

Nope, it was the “Stats of the Fans” which forced the green flag endings. The extreme excitement of watching Dale Earnhardt roar across the finish line winning his first and only Daytona 500 at a screaming 55MPH following the pace car had the Fans asking for the change. Dale Jarrett sitting near the finish line while the field came to the checkers also had a huge influence.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Sure there are some crazy finishes, but as TMS noted , it was the fans that were the impetus for change. After sitting in the stands for 500 miles, watching the cars cruise over the finish under a yellow flag was both anti-climatic and frustrating. Sport in general has seen many changes over the past decades to please the spectator and as in anything in life, not everyone likes these so called improvements.

One little comment, from a Driver's standpoint, I know many amateurs and professionals ( myself included ) who felt a yellow flag win was just not the same as one fighting to the end. So I firmly believe there are drivers who like the concept also, though we can all surmise others aren't in favor.

 

[RES_22]

Ryan Newman would likely be in the former camp....

 

[TMSBOSS]

Racing to the flagstand is always bad, especially when the wreck is under the flagstand. But at the end of the day, the race ended under caution anyway, so why destroy half the field in the last 5 laps?

So, you are in favor of the winner being the guy behind the pace car?? The majority of the nascar fans were not. Still are not. Nascar has tried the reset until you finish version and that was Ugly. Now it’s race until the white flag and the next flag ends the race. There is no perfect version.
My opinion is the only way to make a Daytona even a “Good Race” is to add a bunch of turns and braking zones. The Rolex course comes to mind.
There are so many tracks and sanctioning bodies who don’t count yellow flags just because the people who pay for the show want to see a show. All the changes nascar has made are either for safety, the Jarrett near miss, or in direct response to what the bill payers want. The fans being the bill payer.
A track built to give 4000 lbs cars with 200+ real horse power a place to go fast is obsolete. But as long as the “Show” is filling the seats, and it did, don’t expect much change.

 

[blacksheep-1]

So, you are in favor of the winner being the guy behind the pace car?? The majority of the nascar fans were not. Still are not. Nascar has tried the reset until you finish version and that was Ugly. Now it’s race until the white flag and the next flag ends the race. There is no perfect version.
My opinion is the only way to make a Daytona even a “Good Race” is to add a bunch of turns and braking zones. The Rolex course comes to mind.
There are so many tracks and sanctioning bodies who don’t count yellow flags just because the people who pay for the show want to see a show. All the changes nascar has made are either for safety, the Jarrett near miss, or in direct response to what the bill payers want. The fans being the bill payer.
A track built to give 4000 lbs cars with 200+ real horse power a place to go fast is obsolete. But as long as the “Show” is filling the sears, and it did, don’t expect much change.

I would be open to not counting caution laps, it can't be any worse than hosing up fuel strategy with a green white checker crashfest.. or two

 

[TMSBOSS]

I find the NASCAR banzai charge to the checker stupid.. and so does Richard Petty... they might as well pulle the winner out of a hat... has little to do with car or driver. take the wings & spoilers off and ditch the restricter plates.. let the best car driver win.

I fully agree with the spirit of your comments. The reality, not so much. Again, the track is too big for the power made today. Bill Elliot qualified at 210 and 212 mph at super speedway three decades ago. The same year Bobby Allison flew into the catch fence at Dega running at 150+ shredding his car and sending several fans in the stands to the hospital. Had his car pierced the fence and landed in the crowd at 100+ the chances of nascar surviving not to mention the fans who would have surely died while catching the spinning car would be slim.
Again, older tracks built for heavier cars and about 1/3 the horse power is the root problem. Still, the stands fill and from an entertainment point of view, the races are Very successful.
No spoilers or splitters and full on engines would no doubt kill Drivers, fans and the sport. Could you imagine a full on stock GT500 competing against stock 1LE and the Hell cat? A great show, followed by a somber funeral or two. What we have is not perfect, I’m not sure what would be.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I fully agree with the spirit of your comments. The reality, not so much. Again, the track is too big for the power made today. Bill Elliot qualified at 210 and 212 mph at super speedway three decades ago. The same year Bobby Allison flew into the catch fence at Dega running at 150+ shredding his car and sending several fans in the stands to the hospital. Had his car pierced the fence and landed in the crowd at 100+ the chances of nascar surviving not to mention the fans who would have surely died while catching the spinning car would be slim.
Again, older tracks built for heavier cars and about 1/3 the horse power is the root problem. Still, the stands fill and from an entertainment point of view, the races are Very successful.
No spoilers or splitters and full on engines would no doubt kill Drivers, fans and the sport. Could you imagine a full on stock GT500 competing against stock 1LE and the Hell cat? A great show, followed by a somber funeral or two. What we have is not perfect, I’m not sure what would be.

Bobby Isaac hit 200mph back in 1970 in a Dodge Daytona, it took Bill Elliot another 14 years for that 212, in a smaller ( less frontal area) car, but a smaller engine as well. If Nascar didn't go to small blocks ( around 1975) these cars would be running 230 by now.
Same with lyundyke hit .. about 230 average at Indy?.
Both types of car put debris in the stands, NASCAR didn't kill anyone, IRL and CART did.
If they had proceeded on that path, they would be uninsurable and no racing at all would take place.
It seems like sportscar racing is the only place that has not been turned into a circus, purely for the fans ( along with F1 internationally). 24 hours at Daytona, in the rain at 28 degrees is one of the most grueling things I have ever done.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

I am not sure the rational for Nascar's so called issues is any different than almost every form of racing. Mercedes left Formula 1 for years after killing spectators in the 50s, FIA World Rally changed many of the spectator zones ( though many say they are still too close to the action), IndyCar and Formula 1 went to smaller motors also, and we have Halo and windshields in those two cars now. Heck , we had vehicles going airborne at LeMans decades back and all of these issues were cause for change to make things safer for drivers and spectators. Earnhardt likely saved untold drivers by the mandating of the HANS device in NASCAR, along with enclosed helmets.

Racing is dangerous, all forms seem to find issues as they develop and work to improve. The Green/White/Checker is both an attempt to please the spectator ( as all types of racing work towards ) and hopefully have a safer outcome. The argument will continue whether it is effective or not, but the comments that pass most of the judgement on NASCAR is not realistic since all forms of Autoracing have made concessions to improve safety for all involved.

Who knows what may change in the future, but regardless we have to pause and accept that racing is no different than football, soccer , baseball, etc. it is entertainment for folks and it is often in a state of change to keep folks interested and involved along with making things safe as possible for all.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I think NASCAR should run the bus stop at Daytona, maybe that way it would actually get the debris removed off of it, for a change.

Along your line of thinking , Bill, one of the things that came into play virtually everywhere was the tire (or Tyre) manufacturers were whining about the speeds. Those old rock hard Goodyear Blue streak racing tires would run 230 all day long but as soon as the "new, modern radials" came on line they started coming apart, especially at Lemans, where they chose to totally and completely emascualte the Mulsanne straight, creating the Mulsanne go kart track.
But I digress... but for those kids that never saw it... all 248 mph of it



"One of the most epic last lap battles in history, 24 hours driven and it all comes down to the last two laps! Jacky Ickx in the Ford goes for the overtake with the slipstream in what he thinks is the last lap down the Mulsanne straight, but when he reaches the s/f straight, the flag hasn't flown... he's too early! And now he is in a worse position, having to defend the long mulsanne straight. They're coming down the straight, the Porsche right under the wing of the Ford! But then what happens?? The Ford runs out of fuel! Or so they thought, Ickx faked having oil problems to get back in the slipstream of the porsche, he catches back up to the porsche and they come on the last straight. Meanwhile the Porsche had a brake warning light illuminating in the cockpit, which meant the driver (not sure who was driving the last stint) didn't dare brake too hard into the corners. Ickx dives in the slipstream, right under the wing and goes for it... He's alongside, he has more speed, can he do it? He's ahead! He's ahead!! Ford is gonna win! Jacky Ickx wins his first ever 24h du Mans! History was made that day.
After the race they found the Porsche brakes were fine, but the brake warning light itself was faulty and displaying a false alarm."

Also.. best vid I could find