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Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
E-wheels way to go, that is old school, but I used to pull a trailer with tires behind a Miata going to Autocrosses. Did it behind a Mustang Cobra also and it actually works pretty slick. When guys mention they do not have a trailer to switch tires they really need to follow your lead --- inexpensive, convenient, and the fuel mileage is a lot better than yanking around a 26 ft. enclosed trailer, ha!
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Years ago we had a guy protest one of the racers who had a trailer hitch on his car, saying it gave the owner more rigidity and it balanced the weight to get the car close to 50/50 distribution.......................yes, there is one in every crowd. The crazy thing is he had actually convinced a couple of people it was illegal and was an actual performance advantage.
Welcome to Conspiracy Cone Killing Theory in the World of Autocrossing, haha.
 
539
687
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
SoCal
Autoclub Speedway over the weekend....stressful, worrisome, then exciting and educational. Lots of firsts and plenty of code browns.

I made a very long winded post over on M6G so I'll keep this one short(er).
Lots of user error regarding brakes. Experienced definitive soft pedal, no brakes AND hard pedal, no brakes all in the same weekend. Went 4 off at ACS for the first time....and second and third time (are you really pushing yourself unless you go 4 off at every track?). Finally made the necessary steps toward TT; got weighed and dyno'ed (413 whp and 3957 lbs with quarter tank of gas).

Huge, huge, huge thank you to @PaddyPrix for the in-car coaching and very helpful tips on my driving! Also, congrats on the 1:44! Damn you fast!
@67GTA thanks again for the tire trailer! It worked perfectly and I felt like one of the cool kids actually towing crap to the track.
@5.2 liters of democracy it was great hanging out with you in the paddock! Congrats on the multiple 1:49's. Hopefully we'll both be in TT3 next time out!
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
725
1,081
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
San Diego
Autoclub Speedway over the weekend....stressful, worrisome, then exciting and educational. Lots of firsts and plenty of code browns.

I made a very long winded post over on M6G so I'll keep this one short(er).
Lots of user error regarding brakes. Experienced definitive soft pedal, no brakes AND hard pedal, no brakes all in the same weekend. Went 4 off at ACS for the first time....and second and third time (are you really pushing yourself unless you go 4 off at every track?). Finally made the necessary steps toward TT; got weighed and dyno'ed (413 whp and 3957 lbs with quarter tank of gas).

Huge, huge, huge thank you to @PaddyPrix for the in-car coaching and very helpful tips on my driving! Also, congrats on the 1:44! Damn you fast!
@67GTA thanks again for the tire trailer! It worked perfectly and I felt like one of the cool kids actually towing crap to the track.
@5.2 liters of democracy it was great hanging out with you in the paddock! Congrats on the multiple 1:49's. Hopefully we'll both be in TT3 next time out!
You're welcome. I can guarantee your lap times will improve immediately without my fat ass in the car -- or double your money back.
 
539
687
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
SoCal
You're welcome. I can guarantee your lap times will improve immediately without my fat ass in the car -- or double your money back.
That and I think I can take another 85 lbs out with the Sparco Circuit I have coming, losing the passenger seat, and ditching the windshield washer bottle.
At that weight and A052's, I could still gain another 42 whp or add weight back to run A7's......how is Fulton in TT3??? Doing the math for his stock 350R on A7's, shouldn't he be in TT2?
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Ewheels, I do not know who Fulton is but I would have the same question on how a GT350R could run in TT3 with A7s? It would seem one would have to add a bunch of weight for an R to drop to those tires. A set of Toyo RRs and they are right into that Class super easily.
 
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539
687
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
SoCal
Ewheels, I do not know who Fulton is but I would have the same question on how a GT350R could run in TT3 with A7s? It would seem one would have to add a bunch or weight for an R to drop to those tires. A set of Toyo RRs and they are right into the Class.
🤷‍♂️ no idea, Bill. There's clearly something else going on that I'm missing.
He's a hell of a driver though and the man who signed me off into TT so I have nothing but respect for him.
 

PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
725
1,081
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
San Diego
That and I think I can take another 85 lbs out with the Sparco Circuit I have coming, losing the passenger seat, and ditching the windshield washer bottle.
At that weight and A052's, I could still gain another 42 whp or add weight back to run A7's......how is Fulton in TT3??? Doing the math for his stock 350R on A7's, shouldn't he be in TT2?
For what it's worth, you can semi-figure out what people are doing, as all NASA people get their compliance docs scanned and uploaded to be out in the open -- https://airtable.com/shrtuIZcugofvmCJZ/tblzOXuQ6j4GJh4nT/viwSP969mSAghNE2Q
and here's Fulton's -- https://drive.google.com/embeddedfolderview?id=1EI6KCkjMmCKQI701_iDRJWVnWqRw2gII , which shows him claiming 436 rwhp, and 4055 pounds.

Time Trials follows Super Touring for classing, so that's in here -- https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/23457/2022_ST_1-4_Rules.pdf

6.5.2 --
3300 lbs = +0.1
3400 lbs = +0.2
3500 lbs = +0.3
3600 lbs = +0.4
3750 lbs = +0.5
3900 lbs = +0.6
4050 lbs = +0.7

So him going to 4055 just puts him over and gains another tenth, and these weights changed since you last ran Eric. I'm thinking it's an attempt to get the heavybois like the Challengers wanting to come out and play as well, because Fulton can friggin drive (NASA SoCal's Chief Instructor, former Formula driver) so it's not like he needs that extra .1
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,425
8,356
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Good to know and not questioning the guy's credentials, I just could not figure how an R could get to TT3 with A7s, though there will be plenty of them running in TT3 with other tires. He is not in my Region ( so I had not heard of him ) and sounds like the guy is one hot shoe, but 436 rwhp for a 350R seems low.
I find asking questions often helps, as it seems I am constantly missing some small rule change so figured that might be it ? AZVBoss gave me some ideas, years back, that really helped me upgrade my Boss S and still stay in the ST2 Class , so not being disrespectful just wondering how an R could use the A7s?
 
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PaddyPrix

If breakin' parts is cool, consider me Miles Davis
725
1,081
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
Under 3 Years
San Diego
Good to know and not questioning the guy's credentials, I just could not figure how an R could get to TT3 with A7s, though there will be plenty of them running in TT3 with other tires. Not in my Region and sounds like the guy is one hot shoe, but 436 rwhp for a 350R seems low.
I find asking always helps as it seems I am constantly missing some small rule change so figured that might be it., AZVBoss gave me some ideas years back that really helped me upgrade my Boss S and still stay in the ST2 Class , so not being disrespectful just wondering how an R could use the A7s?
Ah, and an important point and distinction is that NASA goes off of average horsepower which is now even further under scrutiny. The problem with open classes is that NASA tries to do weighting to keep it so that different cars and platforms all have the same chance of winning, given equal drivers. It's easier to administrate a Spec class because they're all supposed to be the same cars, and little things like restrictor plates, and ballast weights help keep it decently even. So, if you peak your HP at 5500, you have to count so many points from your peak, beyond your peak, and leading up to your peak. If your peak is 7k, then you have more points, and so on.

Then, somebody goes and does this :
1648486055128.png
I mean, it is brilliant, and at the time, it was totally legal, again, emphasis on was.

For instance, my peak is ~470rwhp, but I averaged out to 445rwhp. I claimed 3605, but being lazy and still needing to shave things, I came off at 3725, friggin 120 over min. I don't know what his scale weight is, so let's just call it 400 for min to min. Prefixing this to say that I'm not a better driver than him, but just shows what a difference that tires and weight are -- if he went out on A7's yesterday, my 1:44 to his 1:49 shows 5 full seconds. Something to think about when you're spending a few (or several) hundred on engine mods.
 
539
687
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
SoCal
Ah, and an important point and distinction is that NASA goes off of average horsepower which is now even further under scrutiny. The problem with open classes is that NASA tries to do weighting to keep it so that different cars and platforms all have the same chance of winning, given equal drivers. It's easier to administrate a Spec class because they're all supposed to be the same cars, and little things like restrictor plates, and ballast weights help keep it decently even. So, if you peak your HP at 5500, you have to count so many points from your peak, beyond your peak, and leading up to your peak. If your peak is 7k, then you have more points, and so on.

Then, somebody goes and does this :
View attachment 73952
I mean, it is brilliant, and at the time, it was totally legal, again, emphasis on was.

For instance, my peak is ~470rwhp, but I averaged out to 445rwhp. I claimed 3605, but being lazy and still needing to shave things, I came off at 3725, friggin 120 over min. I don't know what his scale weight is, so let's just call it 400 for min to min. Prefixing this to say that I'm not a better driver than him, but just shows what a difference that tires and weight are -- if he went out on A7's yesterday, my 1:44 to his 1:49 shows 5 full seconds. Something to think about when you're spending a few (or several) hundred on engine mods.
Maybe dumb question but to clarify: "average hp"..........is that the average of the single graph like you described or is your average hp simply the average of the three pulls?
 

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