RE-71 vs Rival S 1.5

[Bill Pemberton]

The Yokohama does seem to be the hot ticket for most cars on the autocross circuit, but there have been mixed reviews for folks doing track events. Having run Yokohama sticky rubber back in the 80s , it is nice to see them back battling with BFG and others to command the cone killers speed desires. A couple of guys in our area ( 60 miles from the Solo Nationals site in Lincoln, Ne. ) have found the A052 is great on most cars , but heavier machines seem to have a little trouble when there are two drivers, trying to keep the tires cool enough. Though this is an issue with A7 Hoosiers, more and more 200TWR autocrossers are spraying down their tires too when drivers double up.

No argument that it is a trick tire and I for one is glad they are back with a vengeance , because the more competition there is keeps the prices down to a degree.

 

[DaveW]

Yeah, you don't want an A052 on track if tires lasting more than 1 session is your goal. I overheated mine on a 75 degree autocross day with 2 drivers. And people are reporting 40-50 autocross run life, better on some cars, way worse on others (based on camber)

DaveW

 

[G-HORCE]

With the RE-71R gone (no replacement coming I’m told) I‘d love to try the A052. But they only have one skinny tire for 19” wheels. They have a bunch of sizes for 18”. With 18” wheels I’d have nice choices for running 315‘s square.

 

[Flyboygsxr]

Yeah, you don't want an A052 on track if tires lasting more than 1 session is your goal. I overheated mine on a 75 degree autocross day with 2 drivers. And people are reporting 40-50 autocross run life, better on some cars, way worse on others (based on camber)

DaveW

I never had an overheating problem with the A052, but I know the results can vary based on driving style, the car itself, and the track/outside air temperatures. The grip was pretty consistent throughout the session like other 100/200/300TW tires I've run before. I think I ran my fastest lap on the 3rd lap of the session and even after that the times were pretty consistent. I ran the tire pressures in the 30-32PSI hot range. The car I was driving was about 3100lbs and I was on 315 A052's square.

I honestly think manufacturers are getting a little bold with their tread wear ratings these days. There's really nothing I know of that sets a standard for this so manufactures have some latitude when labeling a tire. The A052 feels softer and has a higher level of grip than any other 200TW I've run before. It seems more similar to the Cup 2 or supercar 3R tires. Just my opinion

 

[Bill Pemberton]

This thread ( or a similar one ) will become an information gold mine for the majority of the TrackAddicts on this Forum , because it is ever changing, due to corporate rethinks for some companies and an aggressive philosophy change by others. In the 80s the battle for supremacy was between BFG and Yokohama and others fell away, deciding they did not want to be in the performance tire market. How many folks out there remember the Phoenix Stahlflex 3011 , ha? Though I was primarily competing in Autocrosses back then , the concerns are the same for road course usage as tread patterns, compounding, sizes , and other factors seem to change faster than we, as consumers, are often aware of.
What happened during the first wave of ultra competition in the tire wars ( auto crossing ) was a compound would change mid year and the Yokohama would vault ahead of the BFG rubber, and bingo , right at Nationals time the BFGs ( having a Plant in the US ) would gear up a new compound and sneak in for domination in some Classes. Now , don't get me wrong , sometimes Yokohama was ahead of the curve , beat the competition to the punch on compounding and folks did not find out till it was National Trophy time.
Take away the internet , live anywhere but the California or East Coast , and be one of the drivers who did not find out about a new compound , a new tire size , etc until it was too late and you just bought the wrong air filled inflatable car supporters.
Now the reason I am bringing all of this up is because, in my humble opinion, we are going through a very interesting and dynamic competition between tire manufacturers that is as aggressive and consumer motivated as at any time in the past 4 decades. So, it is very important for all of us, as members of TMO, to voice the new observations we find at the track or autocross course, because we can help each other awaken to the newest , hottest products. We also, have to overcome some of our biases on what is the best rubber tyre for competition, because often a Tire Manufacturer just changes a product name or redoes a tread pattern with little advancement. They are not really committed, they are just wanting to stay in the fray with no real advancement. This is understandable economy of scale for the amount of sales in this niche market , but great for us to know about what is happening with various manufacturers.
So, this thread could continue or, and LudaChris may kill me for this statement, it might even be good to have a tire subset area for constant updates and comments. I am a complete proponent of the rationale that drivers often fall prey to the impressive mods for their cars than the realization that tires are the number one performance enhancement to every machine ( after seat time ). We often read about the guy/gal who has spent 10K on mods and is just now asking about tires and rims, because we have ALL done that. Yet when we go to the track we are so aware that a Hoosier will give us 3 seconds over the tire we are using , yet we ignore the fact that another tire may be only a second faster. One second on a two mile track is 10 car lengths ( rule of thumb ) , so that is 100 car lengths in ten laps. Hmmm, wonder why the guy running a BFG Rival S 1.5 is kicking a guy's butt in a similar car on RS-4s?
Lastly, since this is getting quite long, the reason I am bringing this treatise on tires up is much has changed in a short period. This Forum of TrackAddicts , is a wonderful source for the guy in Vermont who is viewing nothing but snow on the ground, to find out a racer in California is on the new Falken and it is kicking butt. Updates can save all of us money, or make us aware of changes even in specific brands and that is so beneficial. Right now we have some interesting situations going on, and just a few examples are listed below ( there are likely others ):

BFG gforce R1Ss no longer are doing 315/18s
Toyo, who made some calculated moves to further dominate Spec tires and their NASA commitment , dropped the manufacture of their 315
/18s.
Bridgestone RE71Rs have abandoned 305/19s
Yokohama has added a 315/18 with the A052
Falken has 315/18s in the R660

Now some of these listed above are fairly recent , some changed in the past year, but this is just being used as an example of constant change. I recommended a gentleman on this site look into the A052 about 3 years ago with the rules, and he almost bought them , but his racing group banned them, and not long after Yokohama changed the initial tread depth and the tire became legal again. We can all bring new info to each other on TMO and since this is the mod that will give you the quickest bang for the buck, it is great that we discuss it often.
Bridgestone seems to have abandoned the 305

 

[BluPil]

Bill, good comment about paradigms, when I was racing my CBR-600RR at first it was Michelin or Dunlop for tires, then Pirelli came on the scene with a great Corsa tire BTW they had become the spec tire for World Superbike (so I started paying attention to spec tire manufacturers)..... I am going to try out the Goodyear Supercar tire for HPDE, even though I also owned an IROC back in the day and hated the gatorbacks. I should be able update my build thread next week with wheel/tires for a track event on the 13th.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

The 3Rs, Pirelli Trofeos, and the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s, all seem quite similar on many tracks, and considering their similar tread design that isn't a big surprise. Not seeing use with the
trodeaos since Pirelli tends to be in the Stratosphere with pricing on their performance models.

 

[dem00n]

Would also like to know if anyone here has run the Nakang CR-1, they have a 305/30/19.

 

[JDee]

I ran Nankang AR1's last year, weren't any faster than the 200 TW tires I had been running and they make really weird howling sounds to boot. Wear quicker than 200's as well, but not horrifically so.

 

[UnlimitedTraction]

I ran Nankang AR1's last year, weren't any faster than the 200 TW tires I had been running and they make really weird howling sounds to boot. Wear quicker than 200's as well, but not horrifically so.

What were your lap times at Mosport between the tires you tried? I am thinking of trying the CR-1s

 

[UnlimitedTraction]

Would also like to know if anyone here has run the Nakang CR-1, they have a 305/30/19.

I ordered a set. I had 285 RE71Rs and they were amazing but I can't seem to find a set anywhere

 

[JDee]

What were your lap times at Mosport between the tires you tried? I am thinking of trying the CR-1s

I did a host of 1:33's on the 200TW tires, best of 1:33.3. On the AR1s I was in the mid 1:34s at best, and this was with over 100 lbs of weight loss between seasons. Just found them disappointing, expected a lot more.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

TireRack shows only 10 ( RE71Rs ) in stock, so it is understandable they are hard to find since TireRack has the largest tire warehouse in the World.

 

[UnlimitedTraction]

I did a host of 1:33's on the 200TW tires, best of 1:33.3. On the AR1s I was in the mid 1:34s at best, and this was with over 100 lbs of weight loss between seasons. Just found them disappointing, expected a lot more.

Interesting. I was thinking of trying out the Rival S 1.5 or downsizing the rims to 18s so I can get A052s but I have two sets of Apex 19x11s and I ordered a custom set of BBS E88s...so I'd like to stick with 19s.

Who do you run with at Mosport? I have been going with BMW CCA & DriveTeq

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Sorry, did not realize you were talking about 19 inch rims, but the Rival S 1.5 seems to be a really good choice around my area of the Midwest, with some guys trying the new Falken RT 660s and others running the Goodyear F1Supercar 3R.

 

[JDee]

Interesting. I was thinking of trying out the Rival S 1.5 or downsizing the rims to 18s so I can get A052s but I have two sets of Apex 19x11s and I ordered a custom set of BBS E88s...so I'd like to stick with 19s.

Who do you run with at Mosport? I have been going with BMW CCA & DriveTeq

Speed Therapy mostly, but also Infinite, DriveTeq, Engineered Automotive and 1 other group I can't remember the name of. Shannonville as well, I like it because it's a technical track totally opposite of Mosport and it makes you drive well or suffer and it's a really cheap day. Track under new ownership and they've spent some money on it, repaved the worst spots so it's better.

 

[o-man]

I've been hearing "hints" that the CR-1 may be a pretty decent tire. I've still been impressed by the Supercar3, haven't tried the R version

 

[Duane Black]

I noticed our OP weny with the Hankook, which I adore. Hankook has dropped a few sizes. Ive also noticed a lot of new love for this new Good Year, and the Falken RT660 is on the block. Has anyone got comparisons of these tires to share?

 

[Speedboosted]

I did a host of 1:33's on the 200TW tires, best of 1:33.3. On the AR1s I was in the mid 1:34s at best, and this was with over 100 lbs of weight loss between seasons. Just found them disappointing, expected a lot more.

What were the other 200TW tires you used specifically? The AR1 had a lot of hype when it came out last year but seems to have quieted down a lot.

 

[JP X]

What were the other 200TW tires you used specifically? The AR1 had a lot of hype when it came out last year but seems to have quieted down a lot.

OK, maybe I'm a confused noob...I see everyone talking about CR-1 and AR-1. Are these one and the same? What brands are we talking about here?