Tire Wear at the Track ... Please Help

[2012YellowBoss]

For those that know tell me what you think of these tires and how they wore after one day, six 25 minute sessions. I had a lot less wear on the factory tires and next to nothing on two full days with the Nitto 555's.

Is this normal or just bad driving?

left front



right front


left rear



right rear

 

[PJWANNABE]

Welcome to the world of track driving. Some tracks are harder on tires than others, and in different ways that they wear on your tires. Some of it could be due to your driving if you are not driving the optimal line through the course. HP tires are softer for better grip but they wear faster. Be thankful you didn't get the LS or you would be forking out $2,300 for a new set of tires by now.

Do you check your tire pressures after each run? Maybe you need to firm them up a little. If the course has a lot of turns and short straights a lot of drivers recommend rotating the tires between runs to even out the wear. Carolina Motorsports Park (the one on the left on my avatar) is like that, and some drivers have corded new tires after a day on that track when they didn't rotate them.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Looks like a track biased towards right-hand turns. This is why I urge a uniform tire setup all-around so you can rotate tires to any position on the car based on tire temperature readings as well as visual wear.

NT05s aren't known for their durability. I'd say that's probably normal.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

OK, I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. The Pirelli's are a 220 tread wear and showed a little wear at the same track, the 05's are 200, not much different. The 555's are 300 and two days with no wear. It is just more then I thought I would see.

I do check pressures after each run, had to let out air after the first two runs. The 05's can not be rotated except by flipping on the rim unless there is something I do not know.

I will have to watch this, I was thinking about putting on a set of 275/40/18's up front for Daytona. This will add a little height and are only 0.2 inches wider then the 265/35/18 but if they wear like this I may just run with the 555's at PBIR and Sebring, then use the Pirelli's at Daytona.

 

[JScheier]

Outside wear on the fronts is usually due to the lack of negative camber. Adding more negative camber will allow the outside tire to stay flatter during turns, helping to keep outer edge tire wear to a minimum.

Also be aware of understeer (aka: push, plow, etc). If you are entering a corner too fast, carrying too much speed, etc, you will hear the tires talking. That crazy howling sound is a sign that you have reached or are rapidly approaching the limit of front grip and may be abusing the outer edge of the tire. To resolve the issue, enter the turn slower (slow in, fast out) or unwind the steering wheel some to let the tires regain grip and the howling dies down. A lot of newer track drivers are not aware of this and then are amazed when their tires are corded on the outer edge.

Caveat... some tires are just talkers. Falken 615s talk a alot. Yokohama Advan AD08s are nearly silent right up to the edge.

Flipping tires on the rim is something a lot of 'track-rats' do to increase the longevity of their tires. Part of the cost of running the car on the track. Doing this more frequently can help even out wear. You may also want to consider which side of the car is going to take more abuse at a given track. Locally, two of the tracks are run CW and abuse the driver side tires. The other is run CCW and abuses the passenger side tire. Moving tires around the car can assist in evening out the wear here as well.

 

[cloud9]

Scott, you're wearing the shoulders of your fronts as expected with the factory level of camber. I'm still cording the outside edge of my front tires first, but I've gotten the wear fairly even across the face at negative 2.2 degrees camber. Even though the edges started to cord they were full slicks across the face of the tire so it's pretty close. I'd say at -2.4 or -2.5 it would probably be perfect, but I don't think I'd like the way it will handle on the street so I'm leaving it for now. John's right though, if you're rolling over the edges due to understeer, slow your entry speed. You also may be apexing too early. As for the rears, you should flip them on the rims after 2-3 track days to even the wear. Make sure you check the face for wear patterns. I found I was running too much pressure in the rears and wearing the middle. I started at 33 cold, then 32, so now I'm dropping to 30 this weekend. When hot mine are going up to the low 40s. I'm running the fronts at 32 cold and that seems to be just right for the Nitto 555RIIs. Bottom line, you need c/c plates if you're going to be tracking this much and want your tires to wear more evenly. The other thing you should be doing is rotating them side to side and running them "backwards" to even out the wear. Your left side tires will always wear faster on a clockwise course.

I'm not sure about the Hoosiers but I'll find out this weekend. I think I'll start with cold pressures of 32 front and 30 rear. The Boss is a heavy car for R6s so needs more pressure. I also like the feel of Hoosiers with higher pressure.

I just checked the registrations and we only have 35 cars for the 3 day event. They normally run four run groups with 4 25 minute sessions each day. Due to the low car count we're only running 2 run groups so it'll be 25 minutes on, 5 minute shift change, then back out. It's going to be like an Enduro! I'm not sure two full sets of tires will be enough

 

[2012YellowBoss]

You also may be apexing too early.

Ha, I resent that, at least half the time I enter too late ;D

Thanks for info, one thing I have done twice now is start with too much pressure, I am worried I will be under and need to find air since I don't have a small compressor, hey I never said I was the sharpest knife in the drawer. I really need to get that right, I went this time with 34.5 in them.

It is all right turns down here, a little mix at Sebring but Palm Beach has one long left and two little left turns but that is it. I do understand that they will wear uneven just a bit more then I had expected this time. The 555's make a ton of noise but still stuck to the track well, for someone in my class they are a good tire. I am starting to learn to read this a bit more. I just hate to waste good tires while still learning, I should have just stuck to the basics until I am out of learning the basics. Tires have been a problem for me, the brakes I hit a home run on first try.

I would love to figure this tire thing all out before December without buying a whole new set but it is a slow learning process. If I have the money to burn I would have just used NT01's but was afraid of using them too quick, at this rate looks like I will burn the 05's just as fast.

If you guys can come up with some numbers on camber I will have it done, I don't want to add any plates in but if you can give me a starting point i will have the dealer do it, the car is there now. Something that will not kill the street-ability of the car but I am willing to sacrifice some. I can always go back.

Been learning about how the Boss under-steers, so far nothing too cridical and I was able to get myself out of it even if I did use brakes. It is hard to fight off that instinct sometimes. That what I have been telling some of the new guys to tracking, the Boss is so well balanced it leaves room for beginner error. Plus not being on the edge all the time also helps. Still it is hard to slow down going into the turns, that is all the fun.



In the end I am having a good time, I would like to continue that while still having a bank account, lol. So if you guys can up with some camber numbers please say so, I will not hold anything against you ;D oh and think newbie with those numbers.

 

[steveespo]

Scott
You said you let air out between sessions. The Boss runs best at 41-42 psi Hot. So if you reduce pressure after a run to 35 when tires are hot then you are running underinflated which can increase wear on the outside shoulders. If you were just reducing to 41 hot then disregard this post.
Steve

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Yes, I run 41 hot. I have started twice with too much pressure 34-35 when I should have started 32 cold. So my first runs had too much pressure not under.

 

[BossJockey]

Scott your tire wear looks normal to me. The tires are going to wear quickly at the track. If they don't your driving to slow. Also remember that when you drove on the Pirelli's it was your first time on a track with the Boss. I'm sure your going faster now.

I don't think you can adjust the camber without adding camber plates or camber bolts. If you want to reduce the wear on the outside edge of the front tires, the best thing to do is slow down more before your turn in.

I've never run with the group your running with. Do they have class room instruction? The theory stuff can be very helpful in determining what going on with your tires when your on the track.

 

[cloud9]

Scott, just wondering why you don't want to add c/c plates? You will more than pay for them if you keep tracking the car frequently by extending the life of your track tires, plus you'll improve your lap times. You're not going to wear out street tires anytime soon so that's not an issue.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

No real classroom stuff and really at this point that is fine with me for now. I hope to pick up some good things at Miller. For now I just enjoy driving the Boss out there. It is a place I can use the car for want it was built for. I don't get to drive it too much on the street since I am retired and use the truck to run errands, not going to park the Boss at the supermarket. Plus every time I drive it on the street I want to push the limit so I just take it out for special drives. Roads here are extremely boring.

I actually want to do a run at Sebring that cuts out the two stretches. You only go in the twisties and that is what I enjoy driving. I even find myself using 3/4 throttle on the long straights, riding that out to get back into the corners.

Gary as far as the plates I would rather just change the camber first and see how that works. I want to start small and see what it does so I can understand better.If I need/want more in the future I can add them and then understand the difference. I also want to keep the car streetable. I am not sure if I will do as much tracking next year, sure I will some his is all new and I am hitting it hard now.

Didn't you add neg camber when you first got the Boss without the plates?



All kidding aside, I am not addicted to this. It is a lot of fun yes but it's a new toy to play with for now. I did change the appearance stuff to make it mine but I been more reluctant to change or cut up other things if I do not continue with the tracking on a regular basis.

 

[cloud9]

No real classroom stuff and really at this point that is fine with me for now. I hope to pick up some good things at Miller. For now I just enjoy driving the Boss out there. It is a place I can use the car for want it was built for. I don't get to drive it too much on the street since I am retired and use the truck to run errands, not going to park the Boss at the supermarket. Plus every time I drive it on the street I want to push the limit so I just take it out for special drives. Roads here are extremely boring.

I actually want to do a run at Sebring that cuts out the two stretches. You only go in the twisties and that is what I enjoy driving. I even find myself using 3/4 throttle on the long straights, riding that out to get back into the corners.

Gary as far as the plates I would rather just change the camber first and see how that works. I want to start small and see what it does so I can understand better.If I need/want more in the future I can add them and then understand the difference. I also want to keep the car streetable. I am not sure if I will do as much tracking next year, sure I will some his is all new and I am hitting it hard now.

Didn't you add neg camber when you first got the Boss without the plates?



All kidding aside, I am not addicted to this. It is a lot of fun yes but it's a new toy to play with for now. I did change the appearance stuff to make it mine but I been more reluctant to change or cut up other things if I do not continue with the tracking on a regular basis.

There's no camber adjustment available from the factory strut mounts. I initially did add some with camber bolts, but was advised of some potential risks, so just upgraded to plates. I couldn't get as much camber as I wanted from just the camber bolts anyway.

 

[PJWANNABE]

No real classroom stuff and really at this point that is fine with me for now. I hope to pick up some good things at Miller. For now I just enjoy driving the Boss out there. It is a place I can use the car for want it was built for. I don't get to drive it too much on the street since I am retired and use the truck to run errands, not going to park the Boss at the supermarket. Plus every time I drive it on the street I want to push the limit so I just take it out for special drives. Roads here are extremely boring.

I actually want to do a run at Sebring that cuts out the two stretches. You only go in the twisties and that is what I enjoy driving. I even find myself using 3/4 throttle on the long straights, riding that out to get back into the corners.

You should make a trip up to Road Atlanta (the far right one on my avatar) sometime and really open her up on the back straight. It would be worth the trip. ;D Just don't end up in the sand trap behind the chicane.

 

[4pipes]

Scott, I start the first session at 35 psi cold, since I'm not really banging on the car yet. Then, after each session, I bleed air to 41psi. I would rather be slightly over inflated in the first couple of laps. My last outing, I released about 4-6 psi total.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

OK, thanks Gary (again). This is one area where I know nothing, I should spend some time and read up on this. I may go down that road in time, just not ready yet.

You should make a trip up to Road Atlanta (the far right one on my avatar) sometime and really open her up on the back straight. It would be worth the trip. ;D Just don't end up in the sand trap behind the chicane.

I have the Daytona run coming up in a few months, think I will get the speed out of my system there. I have heard that Atlanta can be lots of fun.

Scott, I start the first session at 35 psi cold, since I'm not really banging on the car yet. Then, after each session, I bleed air to 41psi. I would rather be slightly over inflated in the first couple of laps. My last outing, I released about 4-6 psi total.

Kind of where I started, with the Pirellis I let air out once, with the two sets of Nittos I ended up letting out air three times then they leveled off. From what I have read the track rats say to start out a bit lower then the 35. There was a lot of extra pressure starting out there. I wounder if the pressures were less stable since the Pirellis had a few miles on them and the Nittos were new.

 

[PJWANNABE]

I have heard that Atlanta can be lots of fun.

Just a little.

http://www.vimeo.com/24494773

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Looks like a nice track. Some day I would like to get out on a track with elevation changes.

 

[stuntman]

Tire wear is normal, you need more camber (invest in camber plates). -2* to -2.5* with zero front toe will give you the track performance without increased tire wear for street use. I'd recommend around 38-42psi HOT depending on your camber and tire selection.


0.02

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Yea, looks like I will going down that road afterall.