Voodoo 5.2 block for a DIY A52XS

[2012-Boss]

Would the oil filter adapter from the GT350 not work?

 

[pufferfish]

There was no time to order the GT350 adapter, but even if I had, it may require something else special if the bypass is electronically controlled or requires ancilliary items to function. This would all eat up valuable time. The plate worked perfectly anyhow! Got it all buttoned up and I don't know if its the time I've been without the car, but it feels MUCH stronger than the old engine. I performed around 20 minutes of breakin, holding a steady state of 3500rpm down the highway, with short bursts to 7000 under load. I can't exaclty follow the ring manufacturer's recommended breakin procedure, but that should sufficiently get the breakin started off right before trying to murder it on the dyno tomorrow.

I'm really excited for tomorrows results! WOOT WOOT!!

 

[BigTaco]

There was no time to order the GT350 adapter, but even if I had, it may require something else special if the bypass is electronically controlled or requires ancilliary items to function. This would all eat up valuable time. The plate worked perfectly anyhow! Got it all buttoned up and I don't know if its the time I've been without the car, but it feels MUCH stronger than the old engine. I performed around 20 minutes of breakin, holding a steady state of 3500rpm down the highway, with short bursts to 7000 under load. I can't exaclty follow the ring manufacturer's recommended breakin procedure, but that should sufficiently get the breakin started off right before trying to murder it on the dyno tomorrow.

I'm really excited for tomorrows results! WOOT WOOT!!

Just curious, are you utilizing break in oil? This project is very cool....

 

[pufferfish]

Just basic 5w30 dino oil. the zinc attitive breakin oils are unnecessary for roller cams. the only real breakin these motors have to perform is to seat the rings. i usually change the oil and filter after about 4 engine hours to the same dino oil to keep the debris to a minimum. then after around 500 miles (when i consider breakin complete), switch to synthetic. But I hate the thought of dynoing on dino oil.

 

[pufferfish]

ok, so the results are in...sort of.

the engine performed flawlessly. the curve was overlayed onto the last dyno taken from the old engine and it basically just parallels the old graph with more power and more torque. offically, it makes 476hp and 409tq with nothing changed but the 0.2L extra. its a bump of 29hp and 23tq over the previous engine, which is great! we were going to see how high she could spin and find out the limits of the ECU but, instead of a plateau of hp from 6500-8000rpm like the previous engine, the power falls off, so there was nothing to be gained. this means there is an air restriction. well, good thing i brought the GT350 87mm throttle body and Blowfish TB adapter with me!

And thats where it goes to sort of...the TB has a different scale on the motor position, so the computer will never work with it until the tune gets the proper map file. the trick is the map file is only found in 2015+ tunes currently and can't be copied over to the 11-14 tune without some wizardry. so, after some calls to the other top tuners, it turns out this is a first. leave it to me to be the first to try something! sct is working on this file now and expect to send it to RevAuto in the next day or 2. I left the car there,so Adam can start moneying with it when the file comes and I just show up with the trailer after its set, take some pictures and do a dyno run for the camera. We believe that baased on data from other TB upgrades, there will be a bump in power from 5800rpm and up to the tune of around 15hp and 2tq. This should put me in the low 490's, which will be fantastic. What I am unsure of is if it will be enough to allow the engine to breath at 8000rpm and make going past that worthwhile. it may require the CJ intake, monoblade and RevAuto 5" cold air to allow this hungry engine to eat its fill. i hope not. i really want to be able to keep the boss intake.

 

[superhero]

Your projects never get old and you never Cease to amaze me and I'm sure many others.
490+ Horse Power on a N/A engine is great. When the tune is in place I'm sure There's a few hidden ponies that want out of the coral. They just need to stretch there legs some.

 

[captdistraction]

Excellent!

 

[Mad Hatter]

Really a great start! Could you remind us what you have on your Boss engine so far? Did you have cams already etc??

 

[ford20]

That is badass Steve!! I have heard some rumors that Eric Brooks was close to figuring something out, but those were only rumors. I know there was another guy who was working with Jim at JDM in NJ and then Shaun at AED and that sort of fizzled out as well. In the mean time have you given any thought to the Accufab 84.5mm throttle body? It should get some more airflow and the throttle response should still be pretty darn good. I know that it will outflow the FRPP 90mm, so maybe it would outflow the GT350TB as well.

 

[pufferfish]

That is badass Steve!! I have heard some rumors that Eric Brooks was close to figuring something out, but those were only rumors. I know there was another guy who was working with Jim at JDM in NJ and then Shaun at AED and that sort of fizzled out as well. In the mean time have you given any thought to the Accufab 84.5mm throttle body? It should get some more airflow and the throttle response should still be pretty darn good. I know that it will outflow the FRPP 90mm, so maybe it would outflow the GT350TB as well.

The Accufab is the whole reason I am trying to work with the GT350 TB. It made great power on the boss motor, but it had issues that caused limp mode. I know it would do well on this motor as well, but won't risk the limp mode again.

Adam still hasn't gotten the map file from SCT, so I am picking up my car tomorrow to prep for Superfest this weekend. I will just have to bring it back when SCT pony's up.

 

[pufferfish]

Really a great start! Could you remind us what you have on your Boss engine so far? Did you have cams already etc??

5.2L voddo block
Manley forged 11:1 pistons
Manley forged chromoly H-beam rods
Boss forged crank rebalanced
Boss bearings
Boss heads with a bowl blend that flowed +6 to +15cfm over stock
CJ cams
CJ pulse ring
Boundary OPG's
MMR head cooling mod
Boss intake ported
JLT intake
full exhaust

 

[pufferfish]

OK, so some of you already are aware of the debut of the voodooboss engine at VIR this past weekend. For those who don't here's the rundown.

First, let me say, the power curve of the 5.2L is outstanding. The midrange is fantastic. The tope end really needs more flow. Whether the boss intake and GT350 TB can properly feed it vs going to a cj intake, remains to be seen. But on the old motor, I was pushing all out on the back straight to get 155 with no aero. now, with my top end robbing APR wing and this new powerplant, i am BACKING OFF the throttle to not go over 155 so I keep the revs below 7500! With better top end breathing to keep the power going to 8k, this engine would be a roadcourse driver's dream...plenty of grunt with a very long powerband.

Now to the bad news. The engine has to come back out. The blowby was unreal. Once the engine got good and hot, it was spewing oil out of the catch can breather. I talked to Shaun Day, one of the GT350 program people about my issue and my suspected culprit and he confirmed. Basically, there is a special ring gap for PTWA liners. I used a standard steel sleeve ring gap and it wasn't until a conversation about the issue that I realized my error. Steel expands at a different rate than aluminum. without a steel sleeve, the bore would end up at a different hot diameter for the PTWA liner, so the standard ring gaps can't be used.

The one thing I really don't know is whether the metal expands out away from the bore centerline or expands into it. I am pretty sure the bore gets larger with heat...and I really hope so. If it expands out, the gap becomes larger, allowing more blowby. If it expands in, the gap closes entirely and warps the ring to cause the blowby and then destroys the cylinder wall. I am waiting for some infor to be passed along to verify whether the voodoo needs a tighter or looser gap than standard.

I will also take the opportunity to evaluate the Boundary OPG's after some hard miles and make sure the bearings haven't seen trauma.

 

[pufferfish]

oh, one other thing i learned about this engine today. The current PTWA process, check ball piston squirters and a few cooling aids in the voodoo block were actually developed in the GT500 5.8L block. And, the squirters do not function until the oil pressure reaches 50psi. I thought that one was very interesting.

 

[captdistraction]

Interesting Stuff. Shaun's a great guy, glad he was able to help out!

I'm very interested in how this goes, as if I ever have to build another damned coyote motor, I'm going this route or similar.

 

[ford20]

Tim Eichhorn over at MPR Racing Engines works on quite a few GT500 engines with the PTWA liners (from what I can recall) and if you need to bounce some ideas off of him or get some interest in the ring gap specs he is always willing to help out and talk cars, engines etc. He is a super nice guy and always had excellent customer service like you did. He was one of the people I talked with about the boundary gears btw and he loathes them so I wouldn't mention that part haha. Michael at L&M is also a good resource to speak with although he is comes across sort of short over the phone, but one of the best in the business as well.

That sucks about the motor though. Having to tear it down all the way that far again is a pain the behind.

 

[pufferfish]

Tim Eichhorn over at MPR Racing Engines works on quite a few GT500 engines with the PTWA liners (from what I can recall) and if you need to bounce some ideas off of him or get some interest in the ring gap specs he is always willing to help out and talk cars, engines etc. He is a super nice guy and always had excellent customer service like you did. He was one of the people I talked with about the boundary gears btw and he loathes them so I wouldn't mention that part haha. Michael at L&M is also a good resource to speak with although he is comes across sort of short over the phone, but one of the best in the business as well.

That sucks about the motor though. Having to tear it down all the way that far again is a pain the behind.

Thanks. I will check in with Tim. I just got the ring specs this morning (thanks Steve) and they are way tighter than the rings I got would gap at raw. So, I have to find rings that are closer. Tim may be able to point me in the right direction.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Is there a gapless, overlap style ring available?

 

[pufferfish]

i am leary about gapless rings. they have been out for a long time and they have never been adopted by any manufacturer, nor have i seen any confirmation of any race team using them. the concept sounds great, but if they were so great, why aren't they the choice for nascar?

 

[TMSBOSS]

Agree. But cylinder wall expansion is the issue, gapless may be a viable option.

This is new territory with weld in iron liners. It may require a new solution.

Just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[pufferfish]

well, my conversation with Tim at MPR was enlightening. Basically, my pistons are wrong and so are the rings. So, I'm going to have to cough up another $1100 or so and wait 4 weeks for custom pistons to be made. UUGGH!

I am now very glad I didn't decide to push through the weekend on track.

Heres the synopsis. While Ford claims no special rings are needed for the voodoo block, they do actually need special rings. When he discussed ring materials, I had no idea what they were or if they differed from standard rings, but what caught my attention was the need for high tension oil rings. The higher cylinder expansion needs higher tension rings to control oil better. Next, the top ring land in the piston neeeds to be vented to allow the top ring to stay seated. The Manley pistons do not have this. On the plus side, I am dialing up 12:1 compression, cuz it costs me nothing more and will push out more torque.

So, this is officially not a low cost 5.2L build. The special parts required are pushing the price to the point of a sleeved big bore aftermarket short block. I do think there are a few distinct advantages to the voodoo block, such as lighter curb weight, better cylinder cooling (for 12:1 compression on 93 octane), better piston squirter technology. But, on the downside is long-lead specialty parts and the inability to recondition the cylinders at the end of its lifespan. The block strength is probably negligable, when comparing a sleeved aftermarket block to the voodoo block.