I looked in the lap times at Road Atlanta, and they stretch from 1:51 down to 1:23. Some folks are new, and some are highly experienced (and all kinds of different cars, including some that look like gutted race cars).

I went to the track a grand total of once. And it was a one day HPDE event, so I have a grand total of five (20-30 minute) sessions under my belt, and that day was in June of 2025. I did not think to time my laps. It was all I could do to drive and listen carefully to the instructor, and hope I did not wreck the most expensive car I had ever purchased in my life.

I intend to procure a Garmin Catalyst, and so I will probably record a lap time this year, 2026. It is has been so long that it will probably be like being almost new again, especially in the first morning session. Assuming it is sunny and warm, and I have some grippy tires, 200 tw tires, or a set of the Pirelli Trofeo RS (180 tw) that Ford thought should be OE tires on my car (LOL, brilliance dreamed up in their marketing department, I think), what should I expect out of a newbie driver like myself in an A10 Dark Horse with the optional handling package that is stock, as Ford Designed it?

More importantly, how much improvement should I be looking for in subsequent track days? How was progression for you ? By the way, you do not have to have twenty years experience and a background career as factory race car driver to answer this question. If you have a few HPDE days under your belt, and you can give me some idea of how much you managed to reduce your lap times with experience, that would be helpful.

I have delusions of grandeur, as most new HPDE drivers do, LOL. I'd like to get some more realistic idea of what to expect.

And I know it varies based on the driver, but if you share your experience, it will help, and if 20-30 of you share your experience, it will really help get some idea of how things should reasonably go, as there will probably be a varied talent pool and a range, but probably somewhat similar improvements over time.

Thank you in advance.

If it is a year later, and you are seeing this, do not be afraid to chime in. More information is always better than less.

From what i remember, mid 40s in a mustang means you're getting into the flow and finding some decent time. Given your experience, ignore the lap time. Focus on getting good laps and then getting coaching on those laps. It's all about momentum and keeping minimum speeds up, not how hard you brake, how high of a top speed you get, etc. When I was coaching newer drivers I rarely even focused on "the racing line" outside of the first session because how the car feels matters more than putting it 6in to the right or left. The racing line comes once you have a good feel for momentum.

My comments from the above thread.
Instructor time, as much as you can get.
Reinforcing good driving habits and driving lines will pay long term.

What to leave behind is just as important.
Ego, park it somewhere safe. Realise that there are people who have been doing this at a high level for a long time. They are fast and smooth, don't try to chase them, it will end badly. Learn at your own pace. Track driving is very different to road. Modern cars are very fast and will bite if not treated with respect. You 99% won't have the skills to save it, don't get it into that situation in the first place.

Have a fun day, keep up the fluids and be open to the experience of learning. Ask questions, not the how are you faster ones, the this turn feels strange to me, what am I doing wrong, if possible, can I passenger with an experienced driver to see their lines and driving style.

Don't chase times, chase the feeling of that felt like a smooth lap, it flowed better this time. Work on one or two corners at a time, get them 100% and slowly string that perfect line together.

GAR944 said:

if possible, can I passenger with an experienced driver to see their lines and driving style.

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I never thought about doing that. Since I am in Novice (obviously) maybe one of the Intermediate or Advanced drivers would allow me to ride a session with them when Novice is not running,.

You likely will need to ride with someone who happens to be an Instructor since most groups will not allow riders, though there could be exceptions.

Bill Pemberton said:

You likely will need to ride with someone who happens to be an Instructor since most groups will not allow riders, though there could be exceptions.

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Ok, got it.


So . . . nobody wants to volunteer how their times reduced as they gained experience?

honeybadger said:

From what i remember, mid 40s in a mustang means you're getting into the flow and finding some decent time. Given your experience, ignore the lap time. Focus on getting good laps and then getting coaching on those laps. It's all about momentum and keeping minimum speeds up, not how hard you brake, how high of a top speed you get, etc. When I was coaching newer drivers I rarely even focused on "the racing line" outside of the first session because how the car feels matters more than putting it 6in to the right or left. The racing line comes once you have a good feel for momentum.

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honeybadger, what does mid 40s mean?

And, yes, I not only get good coaching, but it is required by all of the organizations here at my level (for good reason). There was an excellent instructor in the car with me in my avatar.

Junkyard Dog said:

Ok, got it.


So . . . nobody wants to volunteer how their times reduced as they gained experience?

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Junkyard Dog said:

hope I did not wreck the most expensive car I had ever purchased in my life.

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See the line above, this is why we say, IGNORE TIMES.
Like seriously forget them. Learn the art of reading corners and finding how they flow. Guess what, do that and your times will tumble downwards. Who cares how fast or slow you improve. Do it at a pace you feel comfortable. Best part is you will be doing it naturally and not over driving and putting your purchase at excessive risk. There is always risk. Never forget that part. I still kick myself for taking 2 corners off my 944 in the wet at the end of the day, and that was 20 years ago and i wasn't a novice.

Sorry if it comes off harsh or blunt but learn from those who have done stupid sh*t, nothing worse than someone new destroying themselves and vehicle to never recover financially or physically.

Track driving is like any other skill, it takes hours of contact time to develop, some people are quick learners, others need more time.

You know...it's HPDE, no one is racing in a class, some guys have big HP, just go have fun, after a few events you'll be able to start seeing lap times which are consistent, then start nibbling away at them

I recommend you shouldn't worry about lap times. Learn to drive the car and how it reacts. I wouldn't even start with the 200TW tires. This is HPDE and all that really should matter is you keep the car on the track and have fun.

Just my .02 but we get faster by going slow and doing this over and over again.

A good lap time is what you feel comfortable with, in your car, on that day, in those conditions.

Reducing lap times is a second- or third-order effect of you building confidence in what inputs you need to make, anticipating correctly how the car will react to your inputs, and how smooth you can be with those inputs.

Look (and think) at least 2 seconds ahead. Scan further ahead when you can. You want to get to where driving is like chess -- you're always planning one or two corners ahead. If you start feeling "rushed" in your inputs, where things are happening too fast for you to anticipate them, just slow down. Don't outdrive your brain. Realize that things like fatigue and dehydration influence your ability to think quickly and clearly.

Concentrate on developing a correlation between your inputs and the car's reactions. Get to where you are proactive in your inputs instead of reactive. Drive the car, don't let the car drive you.

Learn about weight transfer and the friction circle. The only thing keeping your car from sliding off the track (or road) are four little contact patches where the tires meet the asphalt. How much weight / force is on each one changes as you accelerate, brake, and turn. How you make and combine those actions determines each tire's available grip, and the car's overall balance. The more weight / force on a tire, the more grip it has, but it's not linear - under weight transfer from braking, the rear tires will lose more grip than the front tires gain. Start to develop your "internal gyroscope" to feel the g-forces you and the car are experiencing, and think how those forces are affecting the grip at each contact patch.

Be open to learning, ask questions, observe. And have fun.

I use these to learn a new track, definitely feel like it’s worth it

The fact that no one is answering your question...... is answering your question.

I agree with the others. Concentrate on having fun and getting better for now. Times will come later. Don't worry about times AT ALL. And it is an impossible question to answer anyway because we are all individuals. You can give me as much instruction and seat time as Max Verstappen has received and I will probably not become as good as he is.

I'm "just" an intermediate HPDE driver and also had the same idea when I started HPDE... I wanted to work on lap times. It doesn't work that way. It's a useless focus and actually got in the way of my improvement as a driver. A novice chasing lap times is no different than a teenager (that has not learned to operate a clutch and shift gears yet) asking dad if he can please race dad's classic car. You have to "learn to operate a clutch and shift gears" first before concentrating on how shifting the gears can get you faster lap times. Focusing on lap times first is putting the cart before the horse.

I agree with everything everyone is trying to tell you... ignore times; and I'll give another reason for you to do it. You're not consistent at all. You won't be able to repeat or improve a "good" lap time if you do one, because the next lap you don't have the skills to duplicate it again. And if you try to chase times and DO try to beat that time, that is when
"hope I did not wreck the most expensive car I had ever purchased in my life."
will happen.

I (and you) am/are a long, long way from the level of hitting consistent lap times within a second or two and then trying to shave little bits off of that. Instructor time, seat time, instructor time, seat time, seat time, instructor time; then chase lap times. There will come times when you drive through a turn and you know instinctively it was a good turn; you can feel it in your seat, you nailed that turn. Can you duplicate that same turn and get the same feeling the next time you get to that turn? No, you can't. And for sure, not every time on the same turn for the rest of the day. When you can do that is when chasing lap times starts to make sense. I'm not there yet, but I'm slowly getting there, and I've run on seven tracks so far multiples times.

I'm there with you right now. It is still a real temptation for me to look at times, but I know it's not always best for me. I bought a Garmin Catalyst that is helping me concentrate on single items each lap session to work on and improve, and the result is yes, my times are improving. But my times are improving not because I'm focusing on the times, I'm working on specific skills one at a time that result in the improved times.

At this HPDE stage, we are doing this for fun. Just go out and have some fun learning something new; there's no pressure at all for times now.

2nd day at Road Atlanta I would not advise looking at lap times. Use a GoPro or such to record out the windshield and then you can do lap time review post event using time stamps. If you really want to record data then commit to not reviewing live or even post session. Red mist will set in and RAtl is not a place to over drive. Secondly please have in car coaching at least day 1. You really should be line, brake point and acceleration point focused. This advice is not being mean spirited or looking down on anyone, this is based on the mistakes I made starting 16 years ago and continuing to this day. Get a few sessions to establish good lines and a rhythm. Then focus on improving on specific aspects. Getting brake points narrowed in for example, or getting back to throttle closer to apex. These things all take time and concentration and if you try and improve everything at once, none of them will improve. Good luck and have fun. The driver is the best improvement to be made in any car, too bad most of us try and improve the car first, driver second. Another this I advise is have a "home" track and go there alot at first. Knowing a track helps the consistency aspect and you won't be lost for 2 sessions figuring out the line and can focus on refining technique right away starting an event. Once you feel really comfortable going quick at the home track, learning the others will be much easier and less scary. the only exception I have found for me is Ozark, nothing but time on track there can prepare you for Ozarks.

Junkyard Dog said:

Ok, got it.


So . . . nobody wants to volunteer how their times reduced as they gained experience?

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My best first weekend at Road Atlanta time was a 1:40.44 in 2021. Of course I had 11 years tracking mustangs by then. I would say a 1:48 lap is a good start in a Mustang DH on stock tires.

byronj said:

I wouldn't even start with the 200TW tires.

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Unfortunately for this advice, I started with even softer 180TW tires, because that is what Ford engineers saw fit to install on my car to sell to the general public (a long way of saying my car came that way from the factory). So I was a little spoiled (and amazed!) my first time out.

steveespo said:

2nd day at Road Atlanta I would not advise looking at lap times. Use a GoPro or such to record out the windshield and then you can do lap time review post event using time stamps. If you really want to record data then commit to not reviewing live or even post session. Red mist will set in and RAtl is not a place to over drive. Secondly please have in car coaching at least day 1. You really should be line, brake point and acceleration point focused. This advice is not being mean spirited or looking down on anyone, this is based on the mistakes I made starting 16 years ago and continuing to this day. Get a few sessions to establish good lines and a rhythm. Then focus on improving on specific aspects. Getting brake points narrowed in for example, or getting back to throttle closer to apex. These things all take time and concentration and if you try and improve everything at once, none of them will improve. Good luck and have fun. The driver is the best improvement to be made in any car, too bad most of us try and improve the car first, driver second. Another this I advise is have a "home" track and go there alot at first. Knowing a track helps the consistency aspect and you won't be lost for 2 sessions figuring out the line and can focus on refining technique right away starting an event. Once you feel really comfortable going quick at the home track, learning the others will be much easier and less scary. the only exception I have found for me is Ozark, nothing but time on track there can prepare you for Ozarks.

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Road Atlanta is basically that home track for me. I do not have one very close, and only that track and Atlanta Motorsports Park are within a two hour drive for me. And, yes, I had instruction my first day and intend to have more.

steveespo said:

My best first weekend at Road Atlanta time was a 1:40.44 in 2021. Of course I had 11 years tracking mustangs by then. I would say a 1:48 lap is a good start in a Mustang DH on stock tires.

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Thank you for sharing that.

I have already watched it through once, and will watch it through several more times. Even with the rear view mirror blocking a pretty big chunk of the view out the windshield, being familiar with the track I can see where you are, and I remember what each of those turns is like (it is all mapped out in my head). You drive that track very differently from me in some ways, and I will learn what I can from watching these laps by a more experienced driver.

Thanks, again.

Junkyard Dog said:

Thank you for sharing that.

I have already watched it through once, and will watch it through several more times. Even with the rear view mirror blocking a pretty big chunk of the view out the windshield, being familiar with the track I can see where you are, and I remember what each of those turns is like (it is all mapped out in my head). You drive that track very differently from me in some ways, and I will learn what I can from watching these laps by a more experienced driver.

Thanks, again.

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Here is a more current lap with a clearer view. Notice the lap time progression after coaching and time on track.Or watch a guy who really gets after it in the same car same weekend.

Wow, that last one is HPDE. I assumed it was a race until I saw the guy give him a point by at turn 5.