What is a good "beginner" lap time at Road Atlanta?

[Dave_W]

A couple people already mentioned watching YouTube videos of good drivers at the track, ideally in a similar car. I've used them to train my "sightlines" for a track. You need a video that gives you a decent field of view.

Before watching the video, find the flag stations on a track map if you can. Also try to memorize the corner layout from the map. Watch the video, getting a feel for how the track looks in real life vs. the track map. As you get to each brake zone, try to remember where the apex / clipping point is and where you'll track out on exit. On every corner exit, try to remember what the next two corners look like and the line through them. Ideally, after a while of doing this (for a novice and a new track it could take watching someone's full session or a couple different videos), you'll be able to close your eyes and play a "mental movie" of driving the entire track and where you want to place the car through each corner ("the line").

Then watch the video(s) again, trying to spot each flag station as soon as you can. Once you spot one, scan between it and the track, checking for flags every couple seconds. As you move around the track, spot each station. Sometimes you might have 2 stations visible, and you need to glance at both and the track. Don't stare at the flag station, just make a quick glance to check if there's a flag, then go back to the track.

After several laps of moving your focus between flag stations and track, it will start to become a habit. On each corner exit, you're now thinking about the next 2 corners and the flag stations you want to check. Next, when there are places that let you see far down track, try to take a quick glance to check for anything out of the ordinary (brake lights on a straight, a clump of cars). Then add in more things - find a marker for each brake zone and try to spot it early. Imagine checking your mirrors for people looking to pass. Check the gauges once or twice per lap. Evaluate the traffic in front - when will you catch that car ahead of you and where is a safe place to pass it. Talk out loud to yourself as you check each thing and are still planning for the next 2 corners (vocalizing can work a different mental path).

Every so often, find a new video and do all that "cold" without having seen the same lap with the same traffic 20 times already.

Keep doing that until it all becomes natural. Then speed up a video to 1.5 or 2x and try checking all those things. Close your eyes and play that "mental movie" of driving the track with all these things to find and monitor, talking your way through them.

What you're trying to do is train your brain so that all this eye movement and mental evaluation becomes instinct and takes less brain bandwidth. Hopefully, being able to do all that at 1.5x-2x in a video means you'll feel like you're in slow motion when you're actually on track, and things won't feel rushed. It's learning to reduce the number of @GJarrett 's nickels you're spending on these things instead of driving and feeling the car's handling. (Great analogy, BTW.)

Any time you're on track and you're feeling rushed, where you're not planning your inputs in advance but merely reacting to the track layout, just slow down. Better to lap a couple seconds slower than to put it in the wall.

 

[TeeLew]

Ok, got it.


So . . . nobody wants to volunteer how their times reduced as they gained experience?

Just try to suck a little less every time you go on the track.

When you go to throttle, achieve 100% as soon as you can. A good rule of thumb is that it should take about 1 second to go from 0 to 100%. Obviously, there are a bunch of variables which influence this, but it's good for self-diagnosis. I think there's a good argument for applying the throttle in 2 stages, 0-50 quickly, pause to let the car set, 50-100 quickly. Going to throttle is the easiest part to learn. You should be inducing traction control, but not so much it clamps the car down. You never want to be adding steering angle and throttle at the same time. You should always be unwinding the wheel as you go to throttle.

When you get off the throttle, do it in one quick motion. You should not slowly release the throttle in most situations. For a normal corner (think T10), it's off the gas and immediately to the brakes. You can't just hammer the brake pedal, because the chassis can't respond fast enough, but you should be able to ramp pressure up to its maximum quickly, maybe 1/2 second. You should be inducing ABS fairly often. It's not a Bosch, so you can't just ride the ABS all the way to the corner, but if you're not getting into it every once in a while, you're not braking hard enough.

Learn to get the car rotated as early in the corner as possible. If you're adding steering after the apex, you probably over-charged the corner and/or turned in too early.

Use all the track. It's very common to see new drivers kind of cruise around in the middle of the track. Make sure you're using all the track on entry and exit so you can make your driving arc as open as possible.

Corner entry is the last thing you'll work on and there's a lot of time in doing it correctly. Being able to release the brake pressure early and float speed into the corner is tough. Because it's a Mustang, you'll always want to trail the brakes into the corner, but releasing the bulk of the pressure to minimize the time between turn-in and apex is a skill which takes a long time to master. Spend your first year thinking to yourself that you're over-slowing entries a little. That will allow you to get the car turned earlier.

Use the instructors; they're there for a reason. Having said that, some can get a little too eager. Don't let someone convince you to do something you're not ready to do and coach you into the fence. Always drive in a way which you're comfortable. As you get more experience, you'll be more comfortable experimenting with technique.

Get the line nailed. 5 feet off the line can be as bad as 20 in some corners. The initial goal should be about 1 foot of car placement precision. If you're not consistent with your line, the rest is almost meaningless.

As everyone else says, ignore lap time. Concentrate on driving better, not harder. If you're driving on bravery, you'll put the car off the track. As you drive better...with a high car placement precision, better timing precision, more direct inputs, etc., the laptime will take care of itself.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

When you get off the throttle, do it in one quick motion. You should not slowly release the throttle in most situations. For a normal corner (think T10), it's off the gas and immediately to the brakes. You can't just hammer the brake pedal, because the chassis can't respond fast enough, but you should be able to ramp pressure up to its maximum quickly, maybe 1/2 second. You should be inducing ABS fairly often. It's not a Bosch, so you can't just ride the ABS all the way to the corner, but if you're not getting into it every once in a while, you're not braking hard enough.

On 10A, I could not get ABS to activate, and I was pushing that brake pedal hard, like a leg press. I kept braking later and later as the day went on. By the end of the day I was almost at the 100 sign before I stood on the brake, so coming down from 130+ to slow enough to make that turn means I was pressing pretty hard on the brake. I have owned my car for eight months now, and I have never had the ABS activate (track or street). This is very unlike the Audi I drove prior to this Dark Horse. The ABS on the Audi activated at the slightest provocation, and quite unnecessarily in most cases.

Maybe others with the Dark Horse and the Trofeo RS tires could comment, but no ABS activation. The car just stops.

2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse PVOTY Review: Whoa There, Big Pony

Ford’s high-performance Mustang is blessed with stupendous braking power as one of its several standout features.

www.motortrend.com

“The brakes are preposterous,” senior features editor Kristen Lee said. “You feel like you can stop a tsunami with how powerful they are.” And so it went throughout our Dark Horse logbook. There wasn’t a judge who didn’t wax poetic about how exceptional this Mustang was at whoaing itself down. Deputy editor Alexander Stoklosa, among others, had to essentially reorient his approach to the track: “They’re so strong, so responsive, they forced a recalibration of my braking points on Chuckwalla, often moving them past the final cone marking the braking zones ahead of each corner.”

The only time I was not using maximum braking power was when I caught up to somebody on that long straight, because pretty much everybody was braking earlier than me, which forced me to do the same so as not to run into the back of the other car before beginning the turn (all novice class until the last run of the day when they mixed novice and intermediate). That has nothing to do with me (a rank beginner with no experience or skill). The car's brakes are just that good.

I would be surprised to discover that somebody stronger than me can press those brakes hard enough to activate the ABS. I am pretty strong.

 

[bnight]

On 10A, I could not get ABS to activate, and I was pushing that brake pedal hard, like a leg press. I kept braking later and later as the day went on. By the end of the day I was almost at the 100 sign before I stood on the brake, so coming down from 130+ to slow enough to make that turn means I was pressing pretty hard on the brake. I have owned my car for eight months now, and I have never had the ABS activate (track or street). This is very unlike the Audi I drove prior to this Dark Horse. The ABS on the Audi activated at the slightest provocation, and quite unnecessarily in most cases.

Maybe others with the Dark Horse and the Trofeo RS tires could comment, but no ABS activation. The car just stops.

Have in mind that S650's are brake by wire and pressure on the pedal doesn't play a role only how far you press it. There is a good chance because it's brake by wire to not have any feedback in the pedal if the ABS is activated which mean pay better attention of if it's activating or not on the light on the dash if it's blinking or not.

 

[steveespo]

On 10A, I could not get ABS to activate, and I was pushing that brake pedal hard, like a leg press. I kept braking later and later as the day went on. By the end of the day I was almost at the 100 sign before I stood on the brake, so coming down from 130+ to slow enough to make that turn means I was pressing pretty hard on the brake. I have owned my car for eight months now, and I have never had the ABS activate (track or street). This is very unlike the Audi I drove prior to this Dark Horse. The ABS on the Audi activated at the slightest provocation, and quite unnecessarily in most cases.

Maybe others with the Dark Horse and the Trofeo RS tires could comment, but no ABS activation. The car just stops.

2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse PVOTY Review: Whoa There, Big Pony

Ford’s high-performance Mustang is blessed with stupendous braking power as one of its several standout features.

www.motortrend.com

The only time I was not using maximum braking power was when I caught up to somebody on that long straight, because pretty much everybody was braking earlier than me, which forced me to do the same so as not to run into the back of the other car before beginning the turn (all novice class until the last run of the day when they mixed novice and intermediate). That has nothing to do with me (a rank beginner with no experience or skill). The car's brakes are just that good.

I would be surprised to discover that somebody stronger than me can press those brakes hard enough to activate the ABS. I am pretty strong.

I would like to see the video of you braking at 10A from 130+ at the 100 board. Sure it wasn't the 400?

 

[TeeLew]

Interesting. I'd say 1 of three things is going on. Either the ABS is coming in and you're not aware of it, you're bottoming the master cylinder (push all you want, pressure will be limited) or you need a spicier pad. If you're pushing that hard on the pedal, then you're doing your end of it.

 

[TeeLew]

I would like to see the video of you braking at 10A from 130+ at the 100 board. Sure it wasn't the 400?

I can show you video of a car that will do that, but it's sure as hell not a Mustang! 400 makes A LOT more sense.

 

[TeeLew]

Have in mind that S650's are brake by wire and pressure on the pedal doesn't play a role only how far you press it.

Bloody electronics. That's probably what's going on. I bet there's a limit on the line pressure it will put to the calipers.

 

[bnight]

Bloody electronics. That's probably what's going on. I bet there's a limit on the line pressure it will put to the calipers.

Most probably and it's probably different depending on what mode you are in. But to be fair I drove a DH ones and the brakes were insane never driven anything like that in a Mustang. And I'm talking brand new DH with not even brake dust on the disks.

 

[l8tapex]

That explains exactly how I felt. All of my focus was going into driving the car. Obviously if I backed off I would be able to focus on the flag stations. I was just out of band width. My focus was entirely on two things, driving and listening to the instructor.

I will try to schedule more track days in 2026 and back off a little and master some of these things like looking at the flag stations until it becomes second nature.

Thanks.

Awesome. You can also start using the mirrors often , getting use to looking away from the windshield. ( even if your solo and no passing )

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I would like to see the video of you braking at 10A from 130+ at the 100 board. Sure it wasn't the 400?

100%, steveespo.

I can show you video of a car that will do that, but it's sure as hell not a Mustang! 400 makes A LOT more sense.

Sigh. Definitely not 400.

My instructor started me out with a maximum speed of 120 from 7 to turn A. Later in the morning he lifted that to 130, so that is the speed I stopped accelerating on that long straight. I would hit 130 and then try to cruise at that speed for the rest of the straight and over the hill to start down toward 10A. I was braking starting around the 400 sign.

The instructor asked me to wait until 300. So on the next lap, I did. It was comfy cozy and easy. No issues.

Then later he asked me to wait to brake at 200. While I was trying to do everything he said without question, I involuntarily looked over at him for a moment, and he reassuringly said into the microphone, "You will be surprised at what this car is capable of." So I did it. The car braked for turn 10A from the 200 sign very easily, with lots of room to spare, so much so that I made the nervous, relieved laughter and commentary that a newbie probably always does on discovering something new. I then braked at 200 on the next lap, and, every lap thereafter for the remainder of the day, I kept braking a little tiny bit later after the 200 sign. I had no desire to end up in the gravel northeast of 10A, so I was just looking at where I could brake and still feel like I had a little room left. Because I kept feeling like there was a lot more room left, I continued to sneak the barking point past 200 a little fraction of a bit further.

The only times when I did not do this was when I went over the hill with cars in front of me, because almost everybody started braking at around 400, some even earlier. My instructor pointed at a 911 that braked between 500 and 400 and said, "There is no reason for that car to be braking there." Of course, I had to brake very early so as to follow that car down the hill and into turn 10A.

I never did "brak[e] at 10A from 130+ at the 100 board." That is not what I wrote. That is what you wrote.

I wrote this:

On 10A, I could not get ABS to activate, and I was pushing that brake pedal hard, like a leg press. I kept braking later and later as the day went on. By the end of the day I was almost at the 100 sign before I stood on the brake

That word almost is important.

But I will stop, since I realize I am being mocked for making a tall tale or fish story by folks with hundreds of laps at Road Atlanta in very capable cars. The only comment I will make is that for steeveespo, I have watched several laps by you braking into turn 10A, and you have never been as slow as 130 in any of those videos. You have never been within 10 miles per hour of 130, at least not in any of your videos I have seen.

400? Really? That is almost a quarter mile of braking, not to come to a stop, but just to a speed to make the turn.

So I will just say definitely not. That is a ridiculous suggestion.

But I will not spend any more time trying to convince anybody. There is nothing untruthful in what I wrote, but I do not have a video of it. I am left a little confused with somebody like steveespo making that comment. Either he has never driven that slowly down the hill to brake into the turn, was purposefully exaggerating my comment into braking "at" 10A instead of "almost at 10A" in order to mock it, or I am delusional.

I don't think I am delusional.

I'd love to see steveespo taking a video where he slows down to 130 coming down the hill and then brakes. I am 100% certain it would not be from 400 or 300 and, if he pushed, well past the 200 sign.

I really do not know what else to say in response. My best approximation is, that, by the end of the day, I was between 150 (no sign) and the 100. It could be that coming down the hill with my instructor's order not to exceed 130 that I let my speed drift below 130 - I don't know how much air resistance would overcome gravity coming downhill, and I was looking for my position on the signs, not really paying any attention to the speedometer. I was not flooring the gas pedal like most of you are coming down the hill because I was not supposed to exceed 130 miles per hour and so I was not flooring the pedal from way back on the straight when the car is still going uphill. I as already at or over 130 well before the top of the hill, and I was just trying to maintain 130. The only concession I have here to the peals of unbelieving, mocking laughter at my former fish story post is, no, I was not paying close attention to my speed as I passed the 300 and 200 sign, because my attention was not on the speedometer at that point. So it is possible my speed drifted lower, but it is not possible that I mistook the 200 and 100 signs for 400.

I'll try to video next time so at least I can figure out what I am getting wrong factually.

 

[steveespo]

100%, steveespo.


Sigh. Definitely not 400.

My instructor started me out with a maximum speed of 120 from 7 to turn A. Later in the morning he lifted that to 130, so that is the speed I stopped accelerating on that long straight. I would hit 130 and then try to cruise at that speed for the rest of the straight and over the hill to start down toward 10A. I was braking starting around the 400 sign.

The instructor asked me to wait until 300. So on the next lap, I did. It was comfy cozy and easy. No issues.

Then later he asked me to wait to brake at 200. While I was trying to do everything he said without question, I involuntarily looked over at him for a moment, and he reassuringly said into the microphone, "You will be surprised at what this car is capable of." So I did it. The car braked for turn 10A from the 200 sign very easily, with lots of room to spare, so much so that I made the nervous, relieved laughter and commentary that a newbie probably always does on discovering something new. I then braked at 200 on the next lap, and, every lap thereafter for the remainder of the day, I kept braking a little tiny bit later after the 200 sign. I had no desire to end up in the gravel northeast of 10A, so I was just looking at where I could brake and still feel like I had a little room left. Because I kept feeling like there was a lot more room left, I continued to sneak the barking point past 200 a little fraction of a bit further.

The only times when I did not do this was when I went over the hill with cars in front of me, because almost everybody started braking at around 400, some even earlier. My instructor pointed at a 911 that braked between 500 and 400 and said, "There is no reason for that car to be braking there." Of course, I had to brake very early so as to follow that car down the hill and into turn 10A.

I never did "brak[e] at 10A from 130+ at the 100 board." That is not what I wrote. That is what you wrote.

I wrote this:



That word almost is important.

But I will stop, since I realize I am being mocked for making a tall tale or fish story by folks with hundreds of laps at Road Atlanta in very capable cars. The only comment I will make is that for steeveespo, I have watched several laps by you braking into turn 10A, and you have never been as slow as 130 in any of those videos. You have never been within 10 miles per hour of 130, at least not in any of your videos I have seen.

400? Really? That is almost a quarter mile of braking, not to come to a stop, but just to a speed to make the turn.

So I will just say definitely not. That is a ridiculous suggestion.

But I will not spend any more time trying to convince anybody. There is nothing untruthful in what I wrote, but I do not have a video of it. I am left a little confused with somebody like steveespo making that comment. Either he has never driven that slowly down the hill to brake into the turn, was purposefully exaggerating my comment into braking "at" 10A instead of "almost at 10A" in order to mock it, or I am delusional.

I don't think I am delusional.

I'd love to see steveespo taking a video where he slows down to 130 coming down the hill and then brakes. I am 100% certain it would not be from 400 or 300 and, if he pushed, well past the 200 sign.

I really do not know what else to say in response. My best approximation is, that, by the end of the day, I was between 150 (no sign) and the 100. It could be that coming down the hill with my instructor's order not to exceed 130 that I let my speed drift below 130 - I don't know how much air resistance would overcome gravity coming downhill, and I was looking for my position on the signs, not really paying any attention to the speedometer. I was not flooring the gas pedal like most of you are coming down the hill because I was not supposed to exceed 130 miles per hour and so I was not flooring the pedal from way back on the straight when the car is still going uphill. I as already at or over 130 well before the top of the hill, and I was just trying to maintain 130. The only concession I have here to the peals of unbelieving, mocking laughter at my former fish story post is, no, I was not paying close attention to my speed as I passed the 300 and 200 sign, because my attention was not on the speedometer at that point. So it is possible my speed drifted lower, but it is not possible that I mistook the 200 and 100 signs for 400.

I'll try to video next time so at least I can figure out what I am getting wrong factually.

OK, coasting 600 feet is also a very bad habit to get into but I understand your sentence now. You are asking for help, help in racing comes from data and video. My videos show about a dozen mistakes/bad habits a lap. And I also do not agree with the "no lap times or video philosophy some have here. Video in car showing what both the car and driver are doing is very valuable to a coach. Not mocking you either, an OEM chassis Mustang on DOT tires (even Hoosiers) will absolutely never make 10A if braking at the 100 board at 130 mph. In car video with a view of the speedo would probably show braking from 100 mph to turn in speed of 55-60 mph. Enjoy the car.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

OK, coasting 600 feet is also a very bad habit to get into . . .

I didn't really have a choice. Instructor: "Don't go over 130." My car hits 130 way back on the straight, uphill, before the downhill, so I am just cruising at that point up and over the hill and down. I am sure the instructor had a reason, and I was there to listen and learn. So I did what I was told.

But I would not have been cruising or coasting if not for that maximum speed instruction. I did not ask him why. I just assumed it was due to me being inexperienced.

. . . and, once again, it was not "at the 100 board."

I'll video in the future. If I do not have some maximum speed from the instructor, I will still slow down to 130 just to get a video. If I coast down to 100 mph prior to braking, I promise to post the video so we can all get a good laugh.

 

[steveespo]

100%, steveespo.


Sigh. Definitely not 400.

My instructor started me out with a maximum speed of 120 from 7 to turn A. Later in the morning he lifted that to 130, so that is the speed I stopped accelerating on that long straight. I would hit 130 and then try to cruise at that speed for the rest of the straight and over the hill to start down toward 10A. I was braking starting around the 400 sign.

The instructor asked me to wait until 300. So on the next lap, I did. It was comfy cozy and easy. No issues.

Then later he asked me to wait to brake at 200. While I was trying to do everything he said without question, I involuntarily looked over at him for a moment, and he reassuringly said into the microphone, "You will be surprised at what this car is capable of." So I did it. The car braked for turn 10A from the 200 sign very easily, with lots of room to spare, so much so that I made the nervous, relieved laughter and commentary that a newbie probably always does on discovering something new. I then braked at 200 on the next lap, and, every lap thereafter for the remainder of the day, I kept braking a little tiny bit later after the 200 sign. I had no desire to end up in the gravel northeast of 10A, so I was just looking at where I could brake and still feel like I had a little room left. Because I kept feeling like there was a lot more room left, I continued to sneak the barking point past 200 a little fraction of a bit further.

The only times when I did not do this was when I went over the hill with cars in front of me, because almost everybody started braking at around 400, some even earlier. My instructor pointed at a 911 that braked between 500 and 400 and said, "There is no reason for that car to be braking there." Of course, I had to brake very early so as to follow that car down the hill and into turn 10A.

I never did "brak[e] at 10A from 130+ at the 100 board." That is not what I wrote. That is what you wrote.

I wrote this:



That word almost is important.

But I will stop, since I realize I am being mocked for making a tall tale or fish story by folks with hundreds of laps at Road Atlanta in very capable cars. The only comment I will make is that for steeveespo, I have watched several laps by you braking into turn 10A, and you have never been as slow as 130 in any of those videos. You have never been within 10 miles per hour of 130, at least not in any of your videos I have seen.

400? Really? That is almost a quarter mile of braking, not to come to a stop, but just to a speed to make the turn.

So I will just say definitely not. That is a ridiculous suggestion.

But I will not spend any more time trying to convince anybody. There is nothing untruthful in what I wrote, but I do not have a video of it. I am left a little confused with somebody like steveespo making that comment. Either he has never driven that slowly down the hill to brake into the turn, was purposefully exaggerating my comment into braking "at" 10A instead of "almost at 10A" in order to mock it, or I am delusional.

I don't think I am delusional.

I'd love to see steveespo taking a video where he slows down to 130 coming down the hill and then brakes. I am 100% certain it would not be from 400 or 300 and, if he pushed, well past the 200 sign.

I really do not know what else to say in response. My best approximation is, that, by the end of the day, I was between 150 (no sign) and the 100. It could be that coming down the hill with my instructor's order not to exceed 130 that I let my speed drift below 130 - I don't know how much air resistance would overcome gravity coming downhill, and I was looking for my position on the signs, not really paying any attention to the speedometer. I was not flooring the gas pedal like most of you are coming down the hill because I was not supposed to exceed 130 miles per hour and so I was not flooring the pedal from way back on the straight when the car is still going uphill. I as already at or over 130 well before the top of the hill, and I was just trying to maintain 130. The only concession I have here to the peals of unbelieving, mocking laughter at my former fish story post is, no, I was not paying close attention to my speed as I passed the 300 and 200 sign, because my attention was not on the speedometer at that point. So it is possible my speed drifted lower, but it is not possible that I mistook the 200 and 100 signs for 400.

I'll try to video next time so at least I can figure out what I am getting wrong factually.

As requested. 128 mph and not a brake marker in sight. The logic of 100 mph at 100 makes sense, coating in from peak speed whatever that is does not. Since you don't have a lot of time there I bet your instructor will show you to carry speed to a brake point that minimizes the time from start of braking until turn in. My car on R7s can do it from145 at the 350 marker +/-. Again not picking on you it does take lots of time to get comfortable staying on throttle, braking, getting off brake and turning in. Keep at it.

 

[steveespo]

I didn't really have a choice. Instructor: "Don't go over 130." My car hits 130 way back on the straight, uphill, before the downhill, so I am just cruising at that point up and over the hill and down. I am sure the instructor had a reason, and I was there to listen and learn. So I did what I was told.

But I would not have been cruising or coasting if not for that maximum speed instruction. I did not ask him why. I just assumed it was due to me being inexperienced.

. . . and, once again, it was not "at the 100 board."

I'll video in the future. If I do not have some maximum speed from the instructor, I will still slow down to 130 just to get a video. If I coast down to 100 mph prior to braking, I promise to post the video so we can all get a good laugh.

Also don't get caught up on the top speed thing. Pretend 130 is all the car can do and then figure out where to start braking at that speed. So you are part throttle at 130 (for a long time), then lets start at say the 400 marker and get it down to the speed that the driver is capable of making a good turn in at 10A. Now you may find yourself thinking, shoot I have to put throttle in because I overslowed. Don't. The car will push. Take the lumps and ride the car down onto that curb to set up for the approach to 10B which is the important part leading to a long acceleration zone. The best way to get a Mustang to rotate/turn is to be off throttle. Sometimes it is being on brake but that is a later skill. Next lap start the brake event one car length deeper and see how it feels. Rinse and repeat. That will educate your butt, eyes, hands and feet as to what the car can do on those tires at that corner at that speed. This is why you will have to recalibrate when you are hitting 140 instead of 130. And again video with speed data showing driver inputs is very valuable. You asked for help, or at least I though that is what you asked for. I gave the laptime answer early on, but I can be 10 seconds off without seeing video of everything. Once again be safe and enjoy it, let me know next RA event you are going to and come over to chat, I am itching to get back there myself soon.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

steveespo, could you please patiently explain what the photo is supposed to mean? You are at 128 already past the 100 sign, right? Meaning your car and tires with you driving you would be able to make that turn from 130 miles per hour between 200 sign and 100 sign or so very easily, right? Or am I missing your point entirely?

Also don't get caught up on the top speed thing. Pretend 130 is all the car can do and then figure out where to start braking at that speed. So you are part throttle at 130 (for a long time), then lets start at say the 400 marker and get it down to the speed that the driver is capable of making a good turn in at 10A. Now you may find yourself thinking, shoot I have to put throttle in because I overslowed. Don't. The car will push. Take the lumps and ride the car down onto that curb to set up for the approach to 10B which is the important part leading to a long acceleration zone. The best way to get a Mustang to rotate/turn is to be off throttle. Sometimes it is being on brake but that is a later skill. Next lap start the brake event one car length deeper and see how it feels. Rinse and repeat. That will educate your butt, eyes, hands and feet as to what the car can do on those tires at that corner at that speed. This is why you will have to recalibrate when you are hitting 140 instead of 130. And again video with speed data showing driver inputs is very valuable. You asked for help, or at least I though that is what you asked for. I gave the laptime answer early on, but I can be 10 seconds off without seeing video of everything. Once again be safe and enjoy it, let me know next RA event you are going to and come over to chat, I am itching to get back there myself soon.

I promise I am reading these very carefully and paying close attention.

I will re-read them prior to my next track day.

Thank you for taking the time to give advice and guidance. And I'll definitely let you know when I am there again.

 

[steveespo]

Yes my car and tires can brake from 147 starting at the 350 and carry it down at 128 just past the 100 mark and make the corner turning in at about 64 mph off the brakes entirely. That is a car that is probably 500 lbs lighter than yours, with R7 Hoosiers. And that is me driving, with guys like Sam that zone shrinks up probably by 75 feet if not more. The point I am making is you have to drive like you are going to be driving 25 track days from now or the coasting habit will set in and be difficult to break. I still struggle with it, to a much lesser degree than your example but it is relative. Again stay on throttle even if it is part throttle right up to the point you think is right for 130 mph start of braking. Remember that is a downhill brake zone, remember you are traveling at 191 feet per second 900 feet goes by in 4.5 seconds. My brake duration from off throttle to off brake is 5.5 seconds approximately. Max speed that lap 146, Min speed at apex 58 mph, this on a 1:35.75 laptime. Throttle lift was about at 350-375 location. Again have fun and work up to the speed. If you are focusing on high speed braking, Turn 10A, Turn 1, Turn 6 should be the main focus points. Here is a synopsis from a much better driver than I, Mike Skeen, "The Ginger Stig" http://trackpedia.racetrackdriving.com/wiki/Turn_by_turn_guide_to_the_Road_Atlanta_track

 

[TeeLew]

Here's a screenshot off YouTube of a GT4 Mustang going into T10. This is kind of what we'd expect. The limited speed explains why you were braking so late, but it also explains the confusion to everyone reading. Luca is running pretty good here, and he initiates braking at the Motul sign, which is about the 400. (He has a bad habit of crossing throttle/brake on brake application, we'll let it slide for the moment. I'll assume you're not left-foot braking.)



FWIW, I'm completely on board with Steve in terms of video. It's is a great tool and money for a decent vid system is well-spent. We used GoPro's for years and they were almost as good. Going over video is probably the best way I know to improve. It's not that I'm against taking lap times. I just wouldn't be really concerned with them until you get your sea-legs under you.

Last, you're not being mocked, so there's no need to get bumpy. We're trying to help and some of what you wrote ran significantly counter to our experience. No harm done.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Yes my car and tires can brake from 147 starting at the 350 and carry it down at 128 just past the 100 mark and make the corner turning in at about 64 mph off the brakes entirely. That is a car that is probably 500 lbs lighter than yours, with R7 Hoosiers. And that is me driving, with guys like Sam that zone shrinks up probably by 75 feet if not more. The point I am making is you have to drive like you are going to be driving 25 track days from now or the coasting habit will set in and be difficult to break. I still struggle with it, to a much lesser degree than your example but it is relative. Again stay on throttle even if it is part throttle right up to the point you think is right for 130 mph start of braking. Remember that is a downhill brake zone, remember you are traveling at 191 feet per second 900 feet goes by in 4.5 seconds. My brake duration from off throttle to off brake is 5.5 seconds approximately. Max speed that lap 146, Min speed at apex 58 mph, this on a 1:35.75 laptime. Throttle lift was about at 350-375 location. Again have fun and work up to the speed. If you are focusing on high speed braking, Turn 10A, Turn 1, Turn 6 should be the main focus points. Here is a synopsis from a much better driver than I, Mike Skeen, "The Ginger Stig" http://trackpedia.racetrackdriving.com/wiki/Turn_by_turn_guide_to_the_Road_Atlanta_track

I understand better now, thank you.

Bookmarked the Ginger Stig for later reading, too.

 

[bnight]

Also don't get caught up on the top speed thing. Pretend 130 is all the car can do and then figure out where to start braking at that speed. So you are part throttle at 130 (for a long time), then lets start at say the 400 marker and get it down to the speed that the driver is capable of making a good turn in at 10A.

Without wanting to get into a fight about it but in your personal video a lot of the time you are costing or just not accelerating/braking hard enough which explain the huge difference between you and Pailey in the same car. Most notably in 1st corner you spend tons of time without throttle or brakes, same for the first left into the esses you lift on the hill and roll the car through the left/right, You do the same in the last corner of the track. Also for 10A Pailey is stopping hard at a bit after the 300 mark where you are costing a bit before the Motul sign and then beginning braking at the Motul sign. This is costing you tons of time which I'm sure you checked from telemetry but still worth pointing out.