What is a good "beginner" lap time at Road Atlanta?

[stevbd]

@Junkyard Dog, I think like most any sport or activity in life you will likely see significant improvement pretty quickly and then the gains gradually take more time. You might knock off 10 seconds in 3 events and spend the next 3 years finding the next 10. I’m not totally against timing laps, I think it’s pretty universal at this point and it's fun to see how you are doing, but good advice above to get it out of line of sight. Personally when I was starting out I used to put the phone away in the center console and would only look at it after I came off track. I still do that quite a bit.

If you video (and you should if you can) try to position the camera so you get your whole body in the frame. It's a lot more helpful that way as a tool for finding mistakes and room for improvement as opposed to just watching the hood of the car.

 

[steveespo]

Without wanting to get into a fight about it but in your personal video a lot of the time you are costing or just not accelerating/braking hard enough which explain the huge difference between you and Pailey in the same car. Most notably in 1st corner you spend tons of time without throttle or brakes, same for the first left into the esses you lift on the hill and roll the car through the left/right, You do the same in the last corner of the track. Also for 10A Pailey is stopping hard at a bit after the 300 mark where you are costing a bit before the Motul sign and then beginning braking at the Motul sign. This is costing you tons of time which I'm sure you checked from telemetry but still worth pointing out.

Absolutely. The bad habits are everywhere, which is why I am trying to help. I will take being 3 seconds of an IMSA GT4 driver same track, same day, same car anytime. I take no offense. There is a point where fear rules the right foot. Which is why video and data and someone looking at them is critical to improvement. You sit in the seat and think, "man I am really pushing and on edge" until you watch the video and traces and say "boy that looks slow, why did I wait so long to get to full throttle?"

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Should somebody without a lot of experience in an S650 be using Track Mode at the track or something else?

It might be a stupid question, but if I don't ask . . .

Me: Track Mode, leave the A10 in D. <--- Is this a bad or imprudent idea for me?

 

[steveespo]

Should somebody without a lot of experience in an S650 be using Track Mode at the track or something else?

It might be a stupid question, but if I don't ask . . .

Me: Track Mode, leave the A10 in D. <--- Is this a bad or imprudent idea for me?

Put the car in track mode. Way too much intervention in Sport or Normal. It will burn down the brakes and intervenes at the oddest times, almost to the point of making it unsafe. Again just work your way up to max loading laterally and longitudinally.

 

[TeeLew]

Without wanting to get into a fight about it but in your personal video a lot of the time you are costing or just not accelerating/braking hard enough which explain the huge difference between you and Pailey in the same car. Most notably in 1st corner you spend tons of time without throttle or brakes, same for the first left into the esses you lift on the hill and roll the car through the left/right, You do the same in the last corner of the track. Also for 10A Pailey is stopping hard at a bit after the 300 mark where you are costing a bit before the Motul sign and then beginning braking at the Motul sign. This is costing you tons of time which I'm sure you checked from telemetry but still worth pointing out.

You're not wrong, but to be completely fair, Road Atlanta is a 'big-boy' track. A lot of it is fast and blind. T1 and T6 (the banked right prior to the slow corner that leads onto the back straight) are both corners where you kind of float speed in from a relatively flat entry to catch the banking at the apex, which naturally gives an off-throttle coast. Renger van der Zande running around that place in the dark with no lights a couple years ago was bloody terrifying to watch.

Having said that, there's a turn 3 curb that's feeling really lonely out there, Steve! Turn in super early and get your right side on the flat part next to the grass. You'll float over it.

 

[GAR944]

There is a point where fear rules the right foot.

For the new people, fear is a multifaceted word.
It doesn't necessarily mean you are scared of what you are doing.

There is a law of diminishing returns, how hard do i want to push understanding the consequences of, if this goes wrong here, yes i may hurt myself but probably most in our mind is how much damage and what is it going to COST me. A lot of us have hundreds if not thousands of hours invested in our cars. The thought of loosing that for the sake of a few points of a second is the diminished return.

Watching pro drivers run the ragged line is spectacular but someone else is picking up the tab at the end of the day.

A lapse of concentration took 2 corners off my old track car.
Point being we aren't racing in most cases, just enjoying the experience.
A running joke in the Porsche club i belong to was, the amount of money spent on cars in the pursuit of a pewter mug trophy at the time was ridiculous. Why?

A Kenny Rodgers song came to mind.
If you're gonna play the game, boy
You gotta learn to play it right"
You got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run

 

[GAR944]

You're not wrong, but to be completely fair, Road Atlanta is a 'big-boy' track. A lot of it is fast and blind. T1 and T6 (the banked right prior to the slow corner that leads onto the back straight) are both corners where you kind of float speed in from a relatively flat entry to catch the banking at the apex. Renger van der Zande running around that place in the dark with no lights a couple years ago was bloody terrifying to watch.

Having said that, there's a turn 3 curb that's feeling really lonely out there, Steve! Turn in super early and get your right side on the flat part next to the grass. You'll float over it.

It amazes me how fast and flowing a lot of the tracks in the USA are. I understand why so many of you are running big wings and splitters.
They are totally different to what i get to usually drive on. The thought of learning to track drive on these would have been rather daunting given the speeds of some of these corners and i now see why instructors would be limiting you max speed.
Would love to experience them as watching the videos here gives me that, how quick would i be there, itch in the back of the brain. And this is why i don't trust myself in the wet. Way to happy to play on the edge.

 

[steveespo]

Two videos describing just what you are saying @GAR944 .

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Did you not touch those tires?!?

 

[GAR944]

Two videos describing just what you are saying @GAR944 .

And it happens oh so quickly.

 

[steveespo]

Did you not touch those tires?!?

no got lucky. I have touched tires at VIR before and it is not a great day. Have spun at Road Atlanta a couple times too, luckily never hit anything.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Wow, 150 mph down to 50 mph for that turn, and your oil temp hit 293°

 

[GAR944]

Two videos describing just what you are saying @GAR944 .

Got to have a proper look at your spin video in slow motion with sound.
My interpretation, cold tyres and painted curbs don't mix. Looked like an out lap so you were playing with the throttle more and possibly a gear lower than you would be on a hot lap.
Watched the tacho jump as it lost traction. Got to love the heart starter moment. Keeps you on edge for the rest of the day.
Appropriate response at the end, total relief. How did i not hit anything while sitting arms length to the wall.

 

[bnight]

Got to have a proper look at your spin video in slow motion with sound.
My interpretation, cold tyres and painted curbs don't mix. Looked like an out lap so you were playing with the throttle more and possibly a gear lower than you would be on a hot lap.
Watched the tacho jump as it lost traction. Got to love the heart starter moment. Keeps you on edge for the rest of the day.
Appropriate response at the end, total relief. How did i not hit anything while sitting arms length to the wall.

To answer to your comment earlier: "if you are going to push a car to the limit you have to have some sense of where that limit is". We all are guilty of not pushing our cars as fast or as hard as a pro driver would but I think when it's an obvious mistake we should point it out so we at least get rid of bad habits. Cruising through corners (no throttle/no brakes) is a dangerous habit to have as you are just a passenger with no control over the car at such point. And I'm only mentioning it as I was guilty of doing the same for a long time.

With regards to that spin I think the reason was mostly a lot of throttle over a very steep curb the car jumped at least the front left tire was in the air but likely one of the rears as well and since he was on full throttle and 1 driving wheel was of the ground the tacho jumped I think even with hot tires this would have been the result. A lot of people are guilty of pushing cars on out lap or when conditions are not optimal which is why first/last session of a day is always the most dangerous time. For example on my last track day 3 laps into the first session of the day (3C air temp and cold tires) someone managed to put a car in the grass on a hill on it's belly took us an hour to take it out.

 

[steveespo]

Got to have a proper look at your spin video in slow motion with sound.
My interpretation, cold tyres and painted curbs don't mix. Looked like an out lap so you were playing with the throttle more and possibly a gear lower than you would be on a hot lap.
Watched the tacho jump as it lost traction. Got to love the heart starter moment. Keeps you on edge for the rest of the day.
Appropriate response at the end, total relief. How did i not hit anything while sitting arms length to the wall.

For information, the spin wasn't necessarily cold tires. That was a late day session and those tires had been run and were warm if not fully up to temp. The secret issue was the lead mechanic (me, lol) mistakenly read the ruler wrong on a toe adjustment and had 2.5 mm toe out on the left rear instead of 2.5 toe in. That combined with being up on the curb and gassing up aggressively turned the car abruptly. I did bring it in and checked it right away as I thought camber slipped (it didn't) or something broke (nothing was). Incident instituted a policy of two factor authentication on suspension adjustments on all team cars going forward. I ask someone to verify or as crew chief I double check all the adjustments made on the cars before they go out. This along with bolt and bearing checks is critical. In LeMans I was checking hub bearings and the left rear had movement on the 58 about an hour before session. No big deal we had the new hub and got to it. Turned out after the hub change I discovered it was the frame side camber arm bolt loose allowing the movement. With only 25 minutes to go, we were able to get it torqued and do a recheck on the alignment before sending Nick out. The NJS58 Eurosport crew was fantastic to work with. Real European club racers and just really good friends. So check and double check everything is another good track day lesson.

 

[TeeLew]

In LeMans I was checking hub bearings and the left rear had movement on the 58 about an hour before session.

Well, at least it wasn't on a track with tons of high speed running and sketch-ball corners.

 

[l8tapex]

What event is that? Shorts sleeves...
look like throttle over steer while car unloaded as turn in was expected. The mic is nice a clear.

 

[steveespo]

Well, at least it wasn't on a track with tons of high speed running and sketch-ball corners.

Yeah 155 mph (limited), 4 times a lap with 30 rabid dogs we might want to keep the wheels in line.

 

[steveespo]

What event is that? Shorts sleeves...
look like throttle over steer while car unloaded as turn in was expected. The mic is nice a clear.

VIR track day. Cobra Club. Just a bunch of guys having fun at the now defunct Fall Fest.

 

[l8tapex]

VIR track day. Cobra Club. Just a bunch of guys having fun at the now defunct Fall Fest.

I need to get up there and learn the track. Have a few associates that run it in SCCA