Has anyone installed one of the AiM 719 cables to their fuel pump?


If yes, can you share photos of your Deutsch connection or fuel pump wiring? I prefer S197 images, but the concept should be about the same for all generations.

Here is the resistor installed on the 719 patch but I’m unable to find a video or images of how they get wired

Hey Chris - i have quite a bit of experience with AIM stuff since my whole car is wired via one of their PDMs. What's your setup? are you using any OEM stuff? or aftermarket sender?

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your quick reply. This would be on the OE sender unit on the driver side. I am trying to see how the sender signal can be spliced so that it still works with the OE gauges but can also have a AiM 709 cable included so the signal can be pulled up when my AiM MXG is in use. My car alternates between the two display types (OE and AiM MXG) and its annoying that it does not read fuel. If it is straight foward (as shown in the YouTube video) to add a Deutsch connector to the sending cable and run a resisted 719 cable up to my dash, it would be worthwhile. The challenge is that I don't know the wiring schematics for the OE fuel pump so knowing which is the sending cable and so forth from the OE connectors is my current hurdle. My thinking is that if someone is running an OE pump and has the volume sensor setup in RS3, it would be great to see how they wired it.

Thanks,
Charles

Makes sense. I assume your MXG is wired to your CAN bus for the rest of stuff like RPM, etc. right? We should be able to pull the fuel level via CAN

Yes and no, I am not wired to CAN bus, using OBDII for RPM and the like, and then use 719 cables and sensors for other elements not accurately covered by the OBDII mapping. Its a fully modular telemetry system so nothing is permanent. For fuel, it should be relatively straight forward, I was just curious if any members have done it and would share photos of their at the pump/sender wiring.

From what I am reading, the OEM tank has two fuel sensors and they read different heights? According to what I read, passenger side reads 1/2 to full and driver reads from 1/2 to empty. Sounds like tapping into the canbus via OBD would be preferred.

You should be able to configure a custom protocol using

In Race Studio 3, you can query Standard OBD-II PID 0x2F over your existing HS-CAN connection:

• PID: 0x2F (Fuel Tank Level)
• CAN Request ID: 0x7DF (or 0x7E0)
• Response ID: 0x7E8
• Formula: $\text{Level (\%)} = \frac{100}{255} \times A$ (where $A$ is Data Byte 3 of the payload).
  

Those exact instructions are from Gemini - which has been pretty useful to me in the past.

IF you want to send me your config file, I am happy to tweak (if it would be helpful)

Are you using AIM's OBD2 can protocol? S197s (at least 11-14s) have the fuel tank level sensor Left, Right, Total, transmitted via CAN from the cluster for whatever module to use. I'd suggest switching to a mustang can bus protocol to collect up some other data as well.

cholmes1 said:

I am trying to see how the sender signal can be spliced so that it still works with the OE gauges but can also have a AiM 709 cable included so the signal can be pulled up when my AiM MXG is in use.

Click to expand...

That's not possible, at least not easily. In the video, they had 1 fuel level sender and it was only being read by the AiM dash/logger. But you want to try to have 2 devices read the signal.

A fuel level sender is a variable resistor. You may have heard of the analogy between electricity in a wire and water in a pipe. The pressure of the water is like voltage, the flow rate of the water is like amperage, and a valve that restricts the water flow is like resistance.

(wavy-hand analogy here)
Imagine that your fuel level sender is a valve in a water pipe, and it's being sent water at a fixed pressure. The fuel gauge is reading how much water is getting through the valve. If a gallon of water makes it through in a minute, the tank is full. If a only quart makes it through in a minute, the tank is empty. If it's somewhere in-between, the tank is part-full. After the fuel gauge measures the water, it dumps it on the ground.

Now, imagine putting a tee fitting into the pipe between the fuel sender / valve and the fuel gauge, and putting in another gauge on the tee. The new gauge is going to pull some of the water that was going to the original gauge. So now when you have a full tank and the there's a gallon of water coming through the fuel sender valve, the original gauge gets 1/2 gallon and the new gauge gets 1/2 gallon. So both read the tank as part-full. But that's if the two gauges are identical -- could be that the original gauge gets 3 quarts and reads mostly full, and the new gauge gets 1 quart and reads empty.

ajaquilante said:

Are you using AIM's OBD2 can protocol? S197s (at least 11-14s) have the fuel tank level sensor Left, Right, Total, transmitted via CAN from the cluster for whatever module to use. I'd suggest switching to a mustang can bus protocol to collect up some other data as well.

Click to expand...

ahh, good catch. I was looking at the BOSS 302R config. regular config has it added

Does AiM make an analog flow sensor for fuel? Would like to plumb that into my fuel rail feed to log flow and also calculate remaining fuel. Seems like it would and I have 3 open analog channels available. I know the GT350 CAN protocol I am currently using does not have either level or flow available from the ECU, which seems odd.

Dave_W said:

That's not possible, at least not easily. In the video, they had 1 fuel level sender and it was only being read by the AiM dash/logger. But you want to try to have 2 devices read the signal.

A fuel level sender is a variable resistor. You may have heard of the analogy between electricity in a wire and water in a pipe. The pressure of the water is like voltage, the flow rate of the water is like amperage, and a valve that restricts the water flow is like resistance.

(wavy-hand analogy here)
Imagine that your fuel level sender is a valve in a water pipe, and it's being sent water at a fixed pressure. The fuel gauge is reading how much water is getting through the valve. If a gallon of water makes it through in a minute, the tank is full. If a only quart makes it through in a minute, the tank is empty. If it's somewhere in-between, the tank is part-full. After the fuel gauge measures the water, it dumps it on the ground.

Now, imagine putting a tee fitting into the pipe between the fuel sender / valve and the fuel gauge, and putting in another gauge on the tee. The new gauge is going to pull some of the water that was going to the original gauge. So now when you have a full tank and the there's a gallon of water coming through the fuel sender valve, the original gauge gets 1/2 gallon and the new gauge gets 1/2 gallon. So both read the tank as part-full. But that's if the two gauges are identical -- could be that the original gauge gets 3 quarts and reads mostly full, and the new gauge gets 1 quart and reads empty.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the analogy @Dave_W That is helpful.


@honeybadger As far as changing the ECU for the OBDII connection, I have tried that and lose elements specific to the 2012-2013 ECU in my Boss. Throttle position, steering input, etc. When I reviewed the three options (302R, 2011, and 05-09) fuel level and the like don't display activity on any of those channels in live analysis. I spoke with AiM support and they stated it is a 'known issue' and they will let me know if they decide to update the option. Seems very unlikely given the car is now two generations old. Either way, I have not yet found any Mustang ECU options that correctly display fuel in the 2013 Boss while retaining the other correctly mapped elements. I have used AI for troubleshooting on several elements with the build but this one appears out of my depth/skill given the two sending units.

steveespo said:

Does AiM make an analog flow sensor for fuel? Would like to plumb that into my fuel rail feed to log flow and also calculate remaining fuel. Seems like it would and I have 3 open analog channels available. I know the GT350 CAN protocol I am currently using does not have either level or flow available from the ECU, which seems odd.

Click to expand...

I think we just need to create a custom can protocol or some math cannels for you. Fuel used should be available from ECU - we might just need to config the AIM software on what to look for and how to display. What's your setup? Are you also using an MXG? How's it installed?

cholmes1 said:

Thanks for the analogy @Dave_W That is helpful.


@honeybadger As far as changing the ECU for the OBDII connection, I have tried that and lose elements specific to the 2012-2013 ECU in my Boss. Throttle position, steering input, etc. When I reviewed the three options (302R, 2011, and 05-09) fuel level and the like don't display activity on any of those channels in live analysis. I spoke with AiM support and they stated it is a 'known issue' and they will let me know if they decide to update the option. Seems very unlikely given the car is now two generations old. Either way, I have not yet found any Mustang ECU options that correctly display fuel in the 2013 Boss while retaining the other correctly mapped elements. I have used AI for troubleshooting on several elements with the build but this one appears out of my depth/skill given the two sending units.

Click to expand...

What ECU config are you running right now to get the data you are using? We should be able to do a custom can protocol to combine what you need. If not, we can do the splicing method. But can would be much preferred

Dave_W said:

That's not possible, at least not easily. In the video, they had 1 fuel level sender and it was only being read by the AiM dash/logger. But you want to try to have 2 devices read the signal.

A fuel level sender is a variable resistor. You may have heard of the analogy between electricity in a wire and water in a pipe. The pressure of the water is like voltage, the flow rate of the water is like amperage, and a valve that restricts the water flow is like resistance.

(wavy-hand analogy here)
Imagine that your fuel level sender is a valve in a water pipe, and it's being sent water at a fixed pressure. The fuel gauge is reading how much water is getting through the valve. If a gallon of water makes it through in a minute, the tank is full. If a only quart makes it through in a minute, the tank is empty. If it's somewhere in-between, the tank is part-full. After the fuel gauge measures the water, it dumps it on the ground.

Now, imagine putting a tee fitting into the pipe between the fuel sender / valve and the fuel gauge, and putting in another gauge on the tee. The new gauge is going to pull some of the water that was going to the original gauge. So now when you have a full tank and the there's a gallon of water coming through the fuel sender valve, the original gauge gets 1/2 gallon and the new gauge gets 1/2 gallon. So both read the tank as part-full. But that's if the two gauges are identical -- could be that the original gauge gets 3 quarts and reads mostly full, and the new gauge gets 1 quart and reads empty.

Click to expand...

Not sure this is accurate. I have split sensor signal wires before. You just have to leave the 5v ref on the second data logger/etc. disconnected. You splice the signal + reference ground on the back of the OEM plug and bob's your uncle

honeybadger said:

I think we just need to create a custom can protocol or some math cannels for you. Fuel used should be available from ECU - we might just need to config the AIM software on what to look for and how to display. What's your setup? Are you also using an MXG? How's it installed?


What ECU config are you running right now to get the data you are using? We should be able to do a custom can protocol to combine what you need. If not, we can do the splicing method. But can would be much preferred

Click to expand...

MXG 1.3 Connected through OBD II plus Analog channels for oil temp/pressure/water, trans, and diff temps. ECU Protocol is the Ford GT350 V 2.00

steveespo said:

MXG 1.3 Connected through OBD II plus Analog channels for oil temp/pressure/water, trans, and diff temps. ECU Protocol is the Ford GT350 V 2.00

Click to expand...

Okay - I see that the config from AIM doesn't include the channel we need - raw fuel flow based on injector duty cycle. But I found where it should broadcast

• CAN ID (Hex): 0x116 (Standard 11-bit ID)
• Byte Position: Byte 0 and Byte 1 (16-bit unsigned integer / uint16)
• Byte Order: Big Endian (Most Significant Byte First)
• Resolution/Multiplier: 0.000025 Liters per bit (or 25 microliters per bit) [1, 2]
  
  

If you want to send me your Config file, I am happy to give you a custom can protocol that will enable that.

Re: fuel level - on the S550 you'll need to tap into the body canbus - looks like pin 3 and 11 on the back of the OBD2 reader -- and wire it to CAN2. That will allow us to get the OEM fuel level data

@honeybadger sent you a PM

Running MXG 1.3 connected via OBDII with analog channels for oil temp, trans temp, oil pressure, and air intake temps. ECU protocol is the Mustang 2011 ver 2.00.05

As a quick update, after messing with Chris' config, I discovered the AIM 2011 ECU protocol is locked down and wouldn't let me add/tweak the CAN IDs to fit what we need, so I reverse engineered it with Codex and created one we can continually tweak and improve over time. It's back with Chris for testing.

I'll need some help from folks with a 2015+ car to debug the custom file I am creating for that one since it uses different can definitions. I will be sharing that one with Steve soon. Anyone else that's want to test I am happy to help. I might end up getting a CAN sniffer and finding a local 350 an oem bus and uncovering more channels.

What does everyone want?

honeybadger said:

What does everyone want?

Click to expand...

Kevin brings what the people want, love it!!

I need to get on the AiM train and this thread just might be the motivation needed.

honeybadger said:

As a quick update, after messing with Chris' config, I discovered the AIM 2011 ECU protocol is locked down and wouldn't let me add/tweak the CAN IDs to fit what we need, so I reverse engineered it with Codex and created one we can continually tweak and improve over time. It's back with Chris for testing.

I'll need some help from folks with a 2015+ car to debug the custom file I am creating for that one since it uses different can definitions. I will be sharing that one with Steve soon. Anyone else that's want to test I am happy to help. I might end up getting a CAN sniffer and finding a local 350 an oem bus and uncovering more channels.

What does everyone want?

Click to expand...

Thanks, Kevin. I will try to get my MXG dash reinstalled sometime this week/weekend and report back with findings

~ Charles

honeybadger said:

Not sure this is accurate. I have split sensor signal wires before.

Click to expand...

Many modern aftermarket pressure senders work by outputting a range of 0.5v - 4.5v instead of a resistance, and you can split those with some caveats. But OEM fuel level senders are simple variable resistors.