Advice on setup for street and track!

[Rodpwnz]

Anyone here have AJ's kit on the car? What is your spring rate and ride height and/or fender/wheel gap for the fronts?

Anyone have helper springs with the AJ kit too?

Wondering if the car will get lifted with the 400LB front springs - I quite enjoy the car around 1 inch lowered from stock.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Anyone here have AJ's kit on the car? What is your spring rate and ride height and/or fender/wheel gap for the fronts?

Anyone have helper springs with the AJ kit too?

Wondering if the car will get lifted with the 400LB front springs - I quite enjoy the car around 1 inch lowered from stock.

Isn't the AJ kit adjustable for height?

"The kit will contain the CNC machined lower perch, the lower perch shims according to your desired ride height selection and the upper perch for your selected CC plate with new bearing."

 

[Rodpwnz]

Isn't the AJ kit adjustable for height?

"The kit will contain the CNC machined lower perch, the lower perch shims according to your desired ride height selection and the upper perch for your selected CC plate with new bearing."

Yes of course, but I’m wondering if there will be a minimum ride height, and if that ride height will be lifted, stock level or lower without any shims.

Aka what is the ride height with max lowering/ no shims and 400LB springs or similar?

 

[TeeLew]

Yes of course, but I’m wondering if there will be a minimum ride height, and if that ride height will be lifted, stock level or lower without any shims.

Aka what is the ride height with max lowering/ no shims and 400LB springs or similar?

The spring rate you choose will effect the minimum you're able to reach. That becomes a limiting factor to how stiff you can make AJ's kit. I believe a 400# spring with no spacers gives you a similar-to-stock front ride height. There are a couple people around here running the kit.

 

[Rodpwnz]

The spring rate you choose will affect the minimum you're able to reach. That becomes a limiting factor to how stiff you can make AJ's kit. I believe a 400# spring with no spacers gives you a similar-to-stock front ride height. There are a couple people around here running the kit.

Thank you - this is what I wanted to know.

I would like the ability to fine tune front ride height and am thoroughly enjoying the current 1 inch lowering on my car. Would have loved to play with 1 inch, 0.5 inch and no lowering ride heights.

AJ mentioned in his install video that a 6 inch spring would reach full bind before the bumpstop, hence the 7 inch he uses. According to what I’m reading, there is about 1 inch of usable stroke difference between 7 inch and 6 inch. No 6.5 inch length compatible springs exist to my knowledge, unless custom ordered which is still relatively affordable.

Now I wonder if I would ever reach full bind if I went with 6 inch or 6.5 inch springs, and how much closer those would be to my 1 inch lower than stock goal.

EDIT: I am also concurrently messaging with AJ Hartman about this too

 

[TeeLew]

The front motion ratio is about 0.97. A 1" spring difference is going to be 1.03" of ride difference. It would also close the bump stop gap 1".

These are springs you could use. Take a look at the available travel.



If you wanted to get a little tricky and get an extra 1/8" of travel out of a 6" spring, then you could go with a coned spring which has a 2.5" end on one side and a 3" end on the other. Put the 2.5" end on the damper and the 3" end on the strut upper. You'd need to make an adapter to take up the additional diameter of the upper perch, but that's not too tough.



Also, you have to look at the load capacity of the spring. AJ correctly states the 6" will go to bind before the bump rubber is fully engaged. Having said that, the load capacity for a 300#/in, 7" spring is 1356# at solid height. The load capacity of a 500 #/in, 6" spring is 1809# at block height. It's going to be harder to get the stiffer spring to coil bind, regardless of the available travel. The XT spring gets you up to 1882# total load.

You're going to bottom something at some point. It's either going to be the bump rubber, spring, the damper internally, the car on the ground or the suspension arm themselves hitting something. Coil-binding the spring to control ride height is the 2nd least bad approach, Bump rubber being the best. If you're actually running the spring at bind, then you can add a coil sleeve to make the final ramp a little more progressive.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The spring rate you choose will effect the minimum you're able to reach. That becomes a limiting factor to how stiff you can make AJ's kit. I believe a 400# spring with no spacers gives you a similar-to-stock front ride height. There are a couple people around here running the kit.

I wonder how that works in a Dark Horse handling package, which is very low to the ground?

 

[TeeLew]

I wonder how that works in a Dark Horse handling package, which is very low to the ground?

No idea. What springs do they run stock?

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Assuming this is accurate.

MagneRide adaptive dampers with bespoke Dark Horse tuning are standard, as are bigger 33.3-mm front and 24-mm rear sway bars, though the Handling Package gets a solid rear bar for added rigidity. The spring rate is increased as well: the front spring rate is now 34 N/mm up front and 115 in the rear. The Handling Package ups the ante to 37 and 130, respectively, while also adding a redesigned rear spoiler and a bigger front lip for more downforce.

2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse First Drive Review: The Next Best American Track Car

The 2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse is the Deaborn brand's top Mustang offering, sporting immense track capability and non-stop entertainment.

www.thedrive.com

That would be 211 on the front, 656 on the rear.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

There was some discussion of this here:

Suspension soft?

This is track mode. Seems like it still leans a bit much? Do i need white line or some other better sway bar? Factory magna ride. Or is is just a big heavy car thing

trackmustangsonline.com

But I had not considered that the springs might be too tall and potentially make the car sit higher.

 

[JAJ]

Thank you - this is what I wanted to know.

I would like the ability to fine tune front ride height and am thoroughly enjoying the current 1 inch lowering on my car. Would have loved to play with 1 inch, 0.5 inch and no lowering ride heights.

AJ mentioned in his install video that a 6 inch spring would reach full bind before the bumpstop, hence the 7 inch he uses. According to what I’m reading, there is about 1 inch of usable stroke difference between 7 inch and 6 inch. No 6.5 inch length compatible springs exist to my knowledge, unless custom ordered which is still relatively affordable.

Now I wonder if I would ever reach full bind if I went with 6 inch or 6.5 inch springs, and how much closer those would be to my 1 inch lower than stock goal.

EDIT: I am also concurrently messaging with AJ Hartman about this too

Before I got my GT350, I ran a number of cars with coil-over suspensions.

The answer to your question is a bit complicated, but it goes like this: First, figure out the distance between the spring seats when the suspension is at the bump stop. That length has to be longer than the fully bound length of the spring or spring and helper combination to avoid spring-bind at full suspension compression. Next, figure out the distance between the spring seats when the suspension is at full droop. The spring, or the spring with a low-rate helper, has to be long enough that it doesn't fall away from the seats at full droop.

Once you have that information, get a spring catalog and start looking at which springs satisfy those two constraints at the spring rate you want. Easy-peasy...

 

[Junkyard Dog]

S197 (2005–2014): 131 lbs/in (Brembo/Track Pack)
S550 (2015–2023) PP1: 165 lbs/in
S550 (2018–2023) PP2: 198 lbs/in (approx. 20% stiffer than PP1)
S650 (2024-2029) PP: 205 lbs/in
S650 DH HP: 211 lbs/in

 

[TeeLew]

Assuming this is accurate.

That would be 211 on the front, 656 on the rear.

Those sound like the Mach 1 non-Magneride combo? Is this a Magneride car? Ford doesn't change the physical spings very often, because it's expensive to do. If this is on a MR car, then they've made a new spring for us. You'd have to be able to get the particulars of those springs to know exactly what they're doing.

I wonder if there are some Ford lurkers on these sites? It took a long time, but it appears they're finally going in the right direction on rear spring. They've dropped ~300 #/in from the Shelby cars while keeping the front the same.

 

[TeeLew]

S197 (2005–2014): 131 lbs/in (Brembo/Track Pack)
S550 (2015–2023) PP1: 165 lbs/in
S550 (2018–2023) PP2: 198 lbs/in (approx. 20% stiffer than PP1)
S650 (2024-2029) PP: 205 lbs/in
S650 DH HP: 211 lbs/in

GT350R: 240 #/in
GT500 CFTP: 268 #/in

I thought the S550 GT was 165 #/in and the PP1 was 175 #/in? It doesn't really matter...they're all bad. The GT500 spring is the only one worth talking about. If you're not going to go at least that far, then don't bother. ALL of these numbers are low, most absurdly so. I have no idea why they go through the trouble of different springs when the difference is tiny. It hints at, "We don't know what the hell we're doing. Make it different, but not enought that it matters."

 

[Mjschneidy]

I can't provide any feedback on whether it's better/worse or no change as my next track day is at Watkins Glen 7/13 and 7/14.

How did it do at the Glen?

 

[cjatrains]

I'll come back and provide more info later this week. The quick short update:

Conditions out of my control: Temperatures were extremely hot 85+ Monday, 93+ Tuesday. More cars/drivers than I have ever driven with in the Intermediate 2 group, I counted over 30 cars on track, so traffic was off the charts. Honestly didn't get one clear lap in 7 sessions over the 2 days, very frustrating. I changed tires on all 4 corners for this event, not by choice, the GY F1 Super Car 3 (TW200) tires were aging out in the rear, and I wasn't convinced I had 2 days worth of tread left to run the fronts. So ended up running the event on essentially new Michelin Pilot Super Sport TW300 295/30/R19's front and rear. a very different tire than the GY SC 3. As for me, definitely not feeling 100%, so I can't tell you I was driving as well as my prior 12 track days at WGI, and I was short shifting all day both days to keep CHT under 240. Sharing this information not to make excuses, but the conditions totally impacted the outcome.

So the results, the good and the bad. Best Lap times were 5 to 6 seconds off the 2:14's and high 2:13's I ran last October. Traffic was beyond challenging, between extremely fast C7, C8 Z06's and GT3Rs's running blazingly fast, and then 6-8 cars that were running laps over 2:35's there was no relief. Either running up on traffic, or slowing to let much faster cars go by on virtually every lap, plus 3 black flags out of 7 sessions due to single cars wrecking.

Had a great 1st session going Tuesday AM, but a freaking driver went off at the 5:30 mark, which was infuriating as, we run the first 2 laps of the 1st session every morning under Yellow, so this idiot ran off before completing 2 laps under Yellow (Like drive 8-9/10ths, warm up the tires/brakes !!)

The encouraging news is that the Garmin Catalyst was reporting Optimal Lap times in the low 2:15's, only 1.0 to 1.5 seconds off last October's times.

The chassis was noticeably more stable in the real high speed corners, T2 - T3 I was achieving same Apex Speeds of 100mph T2 RH and 110mph at T3 LH cresting the steep uphill in the Esses, but the car felt really stable and planted. Same feedback in the T10 LH and T11 RH corners. My preliminary conclusion, is that the 45-50% stiffer front springs, and reducing the rake in the chassis are making the car more predictable and I am moving in the right direction.

Am I encouraged and glad I lowered the rear 5/8 to 3/4" absolutely. I still need to go back and review the Race Chrono and Garmin Catalyst video. Once I do I'll provide some more feedback here.

 

[Mjschneidy]

Thanks, appreciate the feedback

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Those sound like the Mach 1 non-Magneride combo? Is this a Magneride car? Ford doesn't change the physical spings very often, because it's expensive to do. If this is on a MR car, then they've made a new spring for us. You'd have to be able to get the particulars of those springs to know exactly what they're doing.

I wonder if there are some Ford lurkers on these sites? It took a long time, but it appears they're finally going in the right direction on rear spring. They've dropped ~300 #/in from the Shelby cars while keeping the front the same.

Magneride on the Dark Horse handling package, the car in the avatar, and what is described in that article I quoted, which I am assuming is accurate.

 

[Gunslinger55]

There was some discussion of this here:

Suspension soft?

This is track mode. Seems like it still leans a bit much? Do i need white line or some other better sway bar? Factory magna ride. Or is is just a big heavy car thing

trackmustangsonline.com

But I had not considered that the springs might be too tall and potentially make the car sit higher.

You can cut coils to adjust ride i assume just like Mark Donohue lol

 

[Gunslinger55]

Magneride on the Dark Horse handling package, the car in the avatar, and what is described in that article I quoted, which I am assuming is accurate.

I am under the assumption ford used the magnaride shocks to control the spring rate by rapidly adjusting the rate. I just heard the Dark Horse magnaride works 6 time faster than the S550 MR and the brake line pressure is 50% higher than the S550 which explains a lot. I would be interested in a spring combo that was stiffer. Right now i gotta learn how to drive a dog box trans and left foot brake but i will be interested in in what people come up with as i’ll keep the DH most likely