ARCHETYPE RACING Vengeance Track Spec Canards are back!

[EIGHTLUG]

After an extended production time, due to the Holidays, the Archetype Racing Vengeance 'normal' (without winglets) and Track Spec (with 1" winglets, pictured) will be back in stock this week. Out of this run of a dozen, two pairs are already sold. They go fast! These aren't your run of the mill, made overseas canards. These are meticulously created, right here in Seattle, WA. Attention to detail, like the weave being laid at opposing 45 degree angles on the left and right canard. The gloss units are hand polished to a show finish. 6 layers of carbon weave on the main canard and 7 on the mounting flange and winglet. These canards are robust! There are three viable options for mounting. 1) Through bolt with provided stainless hardware (you'll need to remove the fascia) 2) Riv nut with provided rivnuts and bolts. (fascia will not need to be removed) 3) 3M heavy duty automotive double sided tape with provided adhesive promoter and IPA wipes. Visit archetyperacing.com Let me know if you have any questions. And thank you Matt Paige for the pictures!

 

[Ludachris]

And on a side note - everyone please take a moment to welcome Archetype Racing on board as our newest site sponsor/supporting vendor. We look forward to helping Curtis in his quest to provide high quality aero products to the track Mustang enthusiast. Please do consider trying out his products and/or offer any feedback you have on all his products as much as you can.

 

[Spencer Terry]

Welcome! Any s197 parts in the works?

 

[Ludachris]

Welcome! Any s197 parts in the works?

Excellent question. @EIGHTLUG - I meant to ask you the same thing.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Thanks Spencer , my question exactly, and welcome Archetype Racing to TMO. Ludachris has definitely enlisted another high quality sponsor --kudos!

 

[Ludachris]

Welcome! Any s197 parts in the works?

@EIGHTLUG - any response?

 

[EIGHTLUG]

Welcome! Any s197 parts in the works?

Spencer, I do have CAD files for a S197 front splitters. Below are examples of:

• S197 Extended Front Splitter
• S197 Mid Length Front Splitter
• S197 AI and CAM Legal Splitter
• S197 BOSS / LS Extended Front Splitter

If you're interested in any of these version PM me of give me a call- 407-301-5556

• 

 

[67GTA]

What are you using for mounting hardware on the S197?

 

[EIGHTLUG]

What are you using for mounting hardware on the S197?

Typically, 10 mm longer, thread Stainless Button Head Hex Drive hardware is provided. The hardware will fit inside the machined pocket to prevent the head of the bolt wearing off through use.

For splitters requiring support rods (either 1 or 2 pairs) they are also supplied in machined billet aluminum. Carbon fiber is also an option. All of the support rods I supply are custom built to spec, in partnership with Fully Torqued Racing. Pete and the team over there produce a great product. Pricing is totally transparent on the website and I do my best to keep cost at 1:1 with FTR, to make shopping easier on my customer's end.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Any canards available for the S197? There has been some renewed interest on splitters of late, so good to post that. Out of curiosity , is there a discount for TMO members?

Thanks , as I am in decent shape on my splitter , but great to know there is a source if I need another in the future. The canards are of interest now , though.

 

[EIGHTLUG]

Any canards available for the S197? There has been some renewed interest on splitters of late, so good to post that. Out of curiosity , is there a discount for TMO members?

Thanks , as I am in decent shape on my splitter , but great to know there is a source if I need another in the future. The canards are of interest now , though.

Canards are financially tough. Let me rephrase that. Canards manufactured in the USA are financially tough.

I'm currently in the process of having a 991.1 GT3 scanned for the purpose of canards. That car, at the price point current manufacturers are producing/selling canards for, I can easily make a better or comparable part, and make my R&D and tooling cost back. There's a known market price I can base my figures on.

S197, I don't feel is as good of a move. I can't be certain that I will recoup the R&D and tooling cost. Possibly, if I spend more time in the S197 portion of the forum, it may change my perception.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Thanks for the reply and are all your products done in CF, or do you make some items in Fiberglass to reduce the price?

 

[Ludachris]

Canards are financially tough. Let me rephrase that. Canards manufactured in the USA are financially tough.

I'm currently in the process of having a 991.1 GT3 scanned for the purpose of canards. That car, at the price point current manufacturers are producing/selling canards for, I can easily make a better or comparable part, and make my R&D and tooling cost back. There's a known market price I can base my figures on.

S197, I don't feel is as good of a move. I can't be certain that I will recoup the R&D and tooling cost. Possibly, if I spend more time in the S197 portion of the forum, it may change my perception.

Given that you're a supporting vendor here, no reason why you couldn't start a thread asking for market feedback to see how many would be interested if you made them - maybe post a poll. You could also ask in the FB group, but you'd probably want to point people to your thread here to have them chime in to keep all your results in one place and easy to count (FB replies are a pain in the ass to try and tally). Might require you to post a price range for them so they know if they'd be in or not.

 

[captdistraction]

Canards are financially tough. Let me rephrase that. Canards manufactured in the USA are financially tough.

I'm currently in the process of having a 991.1 GT3 scanned for the purpose of canards. That car, at the price point current manufacturers are producing/selling canards for, I can easily make a better or comparable part, and make my R&D and tooling cost back. There's a known market price I can base my figures on.

S197, I don't feel is as good of a move. I can't be certain that I will recoup the R&D and tooling cost. Possibly, if I spend more time in the S197 portion of the forum, it may change my perception.

I think the market for S197 is going to swell in the short term and slowly decline over a longer term: They're still a very cost effective race solution, so more of them are getting to the track as their values depreciate. Around here, for example, the local nasa Super Touring series has at least 4 participating S197 mustangs (including the blue 25 pictured above and at least a couple more in the works), but no S550 cars, and that series has been dominated as of late by S197. Same for the American Iron guys. I expect in the future to see more of a shift, but its always a bit disheartening to see that lots of vendors focus on the S550, but paddocks are filled with S197 cars that don't have a lot of options available to them. Flipside is, being that those cars decline in value, the budgets of their operators can be a fickle thing to navigate.

That said, we've chatted about the splitter kits and I think those options you posted above are killer. I didn't realize "blue's" splitter was one of yours, I'll have to look at it more closely soon, they're having a lot of sucess in that car.

 

[Grant 302]

Can some of the potential buyers chime in about size restrictions for the classes you run?

For those of us who are unrestricted might want them as large as can be supported by the bodywork. And possibly from blind or bracketed support.

 

[TymeSlayer]

I'm interested indeed for my '12 Boss. No restrictions for Pace cars.

 

[jbr3712]

I’m interested in canards for the ‘13 boss 302 as well

 

[Pbrmeasap]

Is there any wind tunnel testing data to show the effect of these aero modifications? Understand that the canards are designed to modify the airflow as it goes down the side of the vehicle, but was exact impact would have and in what situations? As this product is clearly engineered and constructed with absolute performance in mind (rather than something cheap that might look the part), would be interested in what to expect on track, etc.

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Great comment from PBR above and I am sure many would like that data. The market for the S197 is decent now ( I know of folks who are looking for dive planes ) , but common sense is the market will slow in the coming years. I guess the thought from one other on this Forum who I have chatted with is what do you think your price point might be at, as they might actually be viable now - hard to tell without an idea of what you think it might cost.

The Poll idea is a good one, since you are a site Sponsor.

 

[EIGHTLUG]

Guys, I appreciate all the responses. With all of the 'home office time' I have on hand, I'll try to source an S197 BOSS in the Seattle area for full frontal 3D scanning. If anyone just knows a guy, that would obviously be a huge help. From there, I'll get a canard rendered in SOLIDWORKS then CFD. I can already tell that the front turn signal location really kills what could be a very aero influential/functional canard design. So, question for you. If you're running a near 100% track car, would you be open to the integration of a carbon fiber blank off panel and losing the front blinkers?

Pricing estimation, with the integral blinker blank off panel, mounting solution included (nuts/bolts, rivnuts, or 3M VHT double sided tape), all in with instructions and shipping puts a pair in the mid to high $400 range. They'll be produced right here in not so sunny Seattle, WA.

As far as specific wind tunnel testing (WTT) for this part, is it possible? Absolutely, yes. Is it possible and still keep the price point relatively low. No. WTT will exponentially increase the R&D cost. From there you're tuning the design of one part to one specific application. Revisions in components like front splitter, hood vents, wind fence, chassis rake, etc. all can change the effect that a canard has and definitely will muddy your expensive WTT data.

I'd definitely go the route of Practical Aerodynamic Design and CFD. The same applied to the R&D of the Vengeance canards. They were produced in the same mindset. Unlike most every other canard on the market, they have a forward projection below and forward of the cooling ducts that is directing more air in that direction and they are far enough rearward and above the high pressure area caused by the front splitter to remain effective. From there you have a more conventional canard shape flowing around the side of the fascia at an efficient angle of attack, integrated winglet, and substantial width to produce a high pressure air stream just above the front tire and a low pressure zone along the wheel face. These features, by design, will aid in extracting air through the wheel well an and wheel face.

As always, I'm open to your input and questions. At the end of the day, all of this is for you to go faster on the stopwatch.