Building and Blueprinting a Road Race Motor (mini-build thread)

[captdistraction]

Well. a decent dry sump is way north of what you are going to have in that oil system, the other thing is, with the lining up of the oil passages, back in the day, we had to go through some serious cutting, deburring and die grinder work on the old FE 427 engines that we used to build, that pic brought me right back to them, seems like some things never change. One thing you might add is an Accusump, they saved an engine for us at Daytona when we cut an oil line on debris in the bus stop..
I used to say, "there are engine builders, and engine assemblers" one guy does the machining, and another puts it together, this way there are two sets of eyes on everything that is being done.

Some very good points. I have an accusump with an EPC-Pro valve (which is currently off to canton for rebuild service) which makes priming easy and provides that short safety net. I am also big on the two sets of eyes on everything. When assembling the shortblock there were two sets of eyes and when we did the long block and final assembly there were two sets of eyes and critical fasteners were torqued then rechecked by a second pair of hands). We even went as far as to designate different paint pen colors for the two people for witness marks. Its a great point to not go through all this work to miss out on something real silly like not torquing a fastener properly

 

[Fabman]

Question, did you find that the pickup height as supplied was adequate? Or did you have to adjust that height?
(I know you had to adjust the angle) I'll be reinforcing my pickup in a similar way and then sending it and the motor to AED for inspection and some other minor tweaks so if I reinforce that pickup bracket and the height is wrong it may make it tough for him to re set the height.

 

[captdistraction]

We did have to make adjustments. I used a MMR standoff (gasp) that was already clearanced to fit the ARP stud, but I believe we took a few hundredths off as well to hit the target depth (which isn't published for the FP350S, but we were told the stock target of just under 3/8" was what we should use). I think unmodified it was closer to 3/16"

 

[Fabman]

We did have to make adjustments. I used a MMR standoff (gasp) that was already clearanced to fit the ARP stud, but I believe we took a few hundredths off as well to hit the target depth (which isn't published for the FP350S, but we were told the stock target of just under 3/8" was what we should use). I think unmodified it was closer to 3/16"

Wow, 3/16" would likely starve the motor and boom.
Yes JDM Engineering told me .300 on my last pan with a variance of "I don't remember" so I'm going to have to ask them again.
Thanks.

 

[Fabman]

Wow, 3/16" would likely starve the motor and boom.
Yes JDM Engineering told me .300 on my last pan with a variance of "I don't remember" so I'm going to have to ask them again.
Thanks.

Per JDM Engineering:
"Yes between .180-.360 is spec. We use .300" on our drag cars, you could go a little on the tighter side somewhere around .250" for the slosh factor".

 

[captdistraction]

I'd say .3 is a good target as well. That said, my data suggests there's not any pickup issues at that height at a road course application with the FP350S pan (and with 15ish quarts of oil in there, not surprising)

 

[Fabman]

I'd say .3 is a good target as well. That said, my data suggests there's not any pickup issues at that height at a road course application with the FP350S pan (and with 15ish quarts of oil in there, not surprising)

Last thing I need is another oil related engine failure. Is .300 what MMR suggested?

 

[captdistraction]

You and me both.

Last thing I need is another oil related engine failure. Is .300 what MMR suggested?

I never discussed pickup height with them. The first build they did for me lunched itself 300 miles in and I suspect the pickup height to be part of the blame there.

 

[honeybadger]

FWIW - I had to clearance my GT500 pickup. It was at 3/16 as well. I wasn't running their OEM bolt, so that might have contributed to it.

 

[captdistraction]

This was brought up in a facebook group, I'll work to complete this thread next week, but spoilers, its been a great motor and has made what I wanted power-wise.

In meantime, this is what it looked like before going in:

 

[Fabman]

This was brought up in a facebook group, I'll work to complete this thread next week, but spoilers, its been a great motor and has made what I wanted power-wise.

In meantime, this is what it looked like before going in:
View attachment 61627

In for updates.

 

[Fabman]

I'd say .3 is a good target as well. That said, my data suggests there's not any pickup issues at that height at a road course application with the FP350S pan (and with 15ish quarts of oil in there, not surprising)

Question, are you running the oil level in the pan lower than stock or are you using the factory full mark?
Lower oil level keeps the oil farther away from the crank and I have see dyno tests that have shown a surprising HP difference, plus less aeration since its not being beat up so bad by the crank.
I called Canton about my previous pan and they said to run it basically 1 quart or more lower than the stock level and since there is plenty of oil in the system no risk of picking up air. Back in the stone age of circle track racing the common thought was to run the oil a quart over filled since we figured at high RPM and high G forces there was a quart all packed up in the right valve cover, but that was a long time ago. Curious to hear opinions on this.

 

[Fabman]

Several tests on various parasitic losses, many on items we have previously debated here on TMO.

**For reference only-your mileage may vary.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I'd say .3 is a good target as well. That said, my data suggests there's not any pickup issues at that height at a road course application with the FP350S pan (and with 15ish quarts of oil in there, not surprising)

Great info here!!... You had me running in a panic to go over the build log (whatsapp, constantly chatting to the mechanic at all hours).

Switching everything to ARP bolts (that are longer), lowered the pickup to 0.1" from the pan. Lucky the ARP bolt instructions said to leave at least 0.25" space, which my mechanic did, ended up being a little more with the gasket etc. Sent me pics and all.

 

[race4food]

Hey this is pretty identical to my build! But my GOD you price is like 4x what mine is. And I thought the build taking since Nov was a long time. What power did you make?

 

[race4food]

No ported heads?

 

[captdistraction]

How's yours so much cheaper? I'm all ears if it could be replicated at 1/4 the cost. It made 468rwhp - just what I needed for classing.

 

[Grant 302]

Hey this is pretty identical to my build! But my GOD you price is like 4x what mine is. And I thought the build taking since Nov was a long time. What power did you make?

When you start with a junkyard long block for $250 and sell a working? 3V to offset some of the cost...you know it’s gotta make up some of the difference.

 

[race4food]

How's yours so much cheaper? I'm all ears if it could be replicated at 1/4 the cost. It made 468rwhp - just what I needed for classing.

Gen 2 f150 Coyote long block $250.00
Short block rebuild (rings,bearings) machine work, balancing, torque plate boring assembly $800.00
14 Engine,Tranny and Fuse harness $500.00
with pedal & EEC
18 GT Intake Manifold $200 (market place local)
JBA long tubes $300 (Facebook Marketplace)
CNC porting on heads $950.00 (local) (not necessary at all)
Boundry oilpump gears $90.00 (Facebook marketplace)
GT350 Oil pan $159.00 (eBay)
Rails, injectors and coil packs $150.00
Boss 302 Cams from ford Shipped $445.00
EPASS Rack $200.00
DSS forged pistons $700.00

CURRENT TOTAL: $5105.00
I shopped around, interviewed many machinists before I found one that would do what I wanted.

 

[race4food]

When you start with a junkyard long block for $250 and sell a working? 3V to offset some of the cost...you know it’s gotta make up some of the difference.

yes, along with shopping for parts and $900 for CNC porting that put the flow numbers over GEN 3 and GT350 flow, then a machinist that knows all the small details that make
horsepower and longevity. A well assembled and balanced shortblock will add 30hp just from the details.