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Car and Driver latest lightning lap

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PeteInCT said:
I said it before and I'll say it again - The bow-tie entries are pretty much at their limit as far as I can tell based on design, add a little $$$ to the Boss (tires, brake pads, suspension) and it'll at least equal if not beat both of those cars. If you assume tires and brake pads are consumable items, it would only cost you about $2500 plus installation for a 302S suspension. Also, it takes more of an experienced driver to get the most out of the Boss to drive it at it's limit than the Camaro. I've seen first hand what Roketman did with his Boss at Watkins Glen running Hoosier R6's, Carbo pads and the 302S suspension. The only car that could best him was an all out Porsche Cup race car. And not by very much...

PS: Just so everyone knows, I'm not against giving Chevy their due. The ZR-1/Z-06 cars are damn fast even for their price point. I've driven with a ZL-1 at LimeRock and the best time he posted was a 1:04 - 1:05 and change, driven by a motorsports writer who has a fair amount of experience. His comments were that it was just too heavy. I just feel I need to defend the Boss a little not so much because I own one but I really believe the differences between these cars in real life is well overstated. And, I don't trust the media anymore ;D

Wow, we can't trust the regular media OR the automotive media!!!! Sad sad days.


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The 1LE may be a great handling car and it may out handle the Boss, but at the end of the day no matter what you do to it, it still looks like a hideous Camaro. You cant polish a turd.
 
You can't compare 2 different drivers in 2 different cars, the only fair comparison is the same driver in different cars on the same day and track.
 
Tflong24 said:
Yes, I forgot to mention the 1LE. What's up here?? We can all say they are big, ugly, hideous etc etc, but GM has apparently put the right stuff in the right places. My friend has a ZL-1 and I hate talking to him. I have zero comeback anymore.


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Wow, it pains me that a car magazine prints this is now the faster car and all of sudden the Boss becomes crap. We have known for 30+ years manufactures will send one-off press cars out just to get numbers in print. Until a ZL-1 or 1LE passes me on the track, I have plenty of comebacks. For the record that has not happened to date and I am by no means a pro-driver. Tom tell your friend to put it on the track, I bet you do just fine.
 
I don't have much confidence in the Lightning Lap, due to experience in cars they tested especially the Evo IX a few years back. They had a pro driver, but he had issues keeping it on the boost and complained it was peaky, but that car runs full power from about 3k-7k and has very little lag in stock form, and he didn't mention the brakes enough to be pushing it really hard. As with any test of something like this, even with the same driver in both cars isn't necessarily going to run the best times in both because they require different styles.

Is that the case here? Who knows. What I do know is that the Boss is more fun than any Camaro I drove, and in the end that is what matters. I could have bought a Miata and tossed a turbo on it if I was just looking for cheap speed.
 

batman48195

I never get tired of driving it!
The Boss is a great car and it is priced well. Great fun and a great car with great heritage. You see a ton of Camaros out there and not many Bosses. It turns heads everywhere I go and it pretty economical on gas given the power it can unleash at any moment.

I agree it is all good for Chevy, Chrysler and others to put out good cars in this category. Hats off to those who like the Camaro or Charger. It is good to have friendly competition and everyone has the right to spend their money on what they like.

Brian
 
I received my C&D mag today, delivered by my neighbor. I wonder how long he's had it...glad it wasn't a Playboy. ::)

Anyway I think the difference between the 1LE and Boss are within the margin of error, at least enough that in a head to head shoot out they should be very close with either car coming out on top. The first thing the article mentions is tires and it's already been proven throwing wider skins on a Boss makes a huge difference. A good comparison would be to have the same tires on both cars.
 
the 1LE is basically a stock SS with a track package. Certainly not a bad thing but just not special like the Boss. I'll also take my VERY SPECIAL purpose built "747/Roadrunner" engine with forged internals ect. vs a stock SS motor any day. Buts that's just me!
 
Tflong24 said:
You sure cant complain about the battle between Ford and GM the last couple of years. The winner is all of us, including those who choose a Camaro. The level of affordable overall performance coming from both companies is pretty amazing.


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Now that is a fact and we are the benefactors, no doubt.
 
cbj5259 said:
The 1LE may be a great handling car and it may out handle the Boss, but at the end of the day no matter what you do to it, it still looks like a hideous Camaro. You cant polish a turd.

Well actually you can. You just end up with a shiny turd. ;D
 

yknot

Hobbies: Hot Rods & Shooting
You guys are pretty much typical marketing add whores. The stats mean more then the car or truck...It's all about the bragging rights. Who has more HP...Who has Top Speed. Who ran VIR the Fastest. If this is all that drives you, then you're going to have a very un-happy life. Things are constantly changing, and whatever is the fastest, lightest, most powerful now, will have its day then be bumped from the throne, as something else comes along better. I was so shocked, but pleasantly so, when Dodge CEO explained how everything is so much about the brag, and how most cars built for heavy street use, will only see an occasional trip to the grocery store or a spirited ride to Mce Dees. It seems the people that buy these cars, or at least the majority of them, only do so to brag about what the car can do....Not about what they and the car can do together, just what the car is capable of doing. From a distance it sounds like a bunch of 6th graders.....but un-fortunately it isn't. I'm not brand loyal to anything, I did not buy this car because it was a Mustang or because it was a Ford. I bought it because I liked it, me..not the general public. If you only purchased this car or any other expensive piece just to have it to brag about, you should really look at what you value. Obviously it isn't the car or product, its other peoples admiration or a phony feeling from a cold piece of metal. Sorry, It's true.....The Camaro is a nice car and I'm sure those that have one feel lucky, like you should about yours. The biggest improvement I see is the Magnetic shocks and more powerful engines. Yes it has larger tires, but they alone do not constitute great handling. Yes, there are many ways to modify the Mustang to handle way better then the Chevy, but it to can be similarly modified, so it's a tail chasing game. Me, I'm happy. The car is what I what and does more then I'll ever ask of it. I enjoy adding little touches to it, to make it more to my own liking, you can do the same. The magazines are just articles about a stock vehicle that they had at that time, nothing else. If you want more grip, change the tires, add a Watts link, change sway bars, or go for a supercharger. There's no one stopping you, but you.
 
yknot said:
You guys are pretty much typical marketing add whores. The stats mean more then the car or truck...It's all about the bragging rights. Who has more HP...Who has Top Speed. Who ran VIR the Fastest. If this is all that drives you, then you're going to have a very un-happy life. Things are constantly changing, and whatever is the fastest, lightest, most powerful now, will have its day then be bumped from the throne, as something else comes along better. I was so shocked, but pleasantly so, when Dodge CEO explained how everything is so much about the brag, and how most cars built for heavy street use, will only see an occasional trip to the grocery store or a spirited ride to Mce Dees. It seems the people that buy these cars, or at least the majority of them, only do so to brag about what the car can do....Not about what they and the car can do together, just what the car is capable of doing. From a distance it sounds like a bunch of 6th graders.....but un-fortunately it isn't. I'm not brand loyal to anything, I did not buy this car because it was a Mustang or because it was a Ford. I bought it because I liked it, me..not the general public. If you only purchased this car or any other expensive piece just to have it to brag about, you should really look at what you value. Obviously it isn't the car or product, its other peoples admiration or a phony feeling from a cold piece of metal. Sorry, It's true.....The Camaro is a nice car and I'm sure those that have one feel lucky, like you should about yours. The biggest improvement I see is the Magnetic shocks and more powerful engines. Yes it has larger tires, but they alone do not constitute great handling. Yes, there are many ways to modify the Mustang to handle way better then the Chevy, but it to can be similarly modified, so it's a tail chasing game. Me, I'm happy. The car is what I what and does more then I'll ever ask of it. I enjoy adding little touches to it, to make it more to my own liking, you can do the same. The magazines are just articles about a stock vehicle that they had at that time, nothing else. If you want more grip, change the tires, add a Watts link, change sway bars, or go for a supercharger. There's no one stopping you, but you.

Umm...that's kind of the fun in it...the bragging rights. The entire late 60's and early 70's muscle car era was built on nothing more than bragging rights. You are right that most people will never be able to extract every ounce of performance from their cars because most people don't have the Nurburgring in their backyard. This is what makes America fun. Do you think Lamborghini owners buy their cars for the performance or because they want everybody to say "wow...look at that luck SOB in a Lambo"?So by your theory when we watch a sporting event...let's say football, we should just appreciate the athleticism of the athletes and not root for one particular team? What kind of fun is that?
 

Sesshomurai

yknot said:
You guys are pretty much typical marketing add whores. The stats mean more then the car or truck...It's all about the bragging rights. Who has more HP...Who has Top Speed. Who ran VIR the Fastest. If this is all that drives you, then you're going to have a very un-happy life. Things are constantly changing, and whatever is the fastest, lightest, most powerful now, will have its day then be bumped from the throne, as something else comes along better. I was so shocked, but pleasantly so, when Dodge CEO explained how everything is so much about the brag, and how most cars built for heavy street use, will only see an occasional trip to the grocery store or a spirited ride to Mce Dees. It seems the people that buy these cars, or at least the majority of them, only do so to brag about what the car can do....Not about what they and the car can do together, just what the car is capable of doing. From a distance it sounds like a bunch of 6th graders.....but un-fortunately it isn't. I'm not brand loyal to anything, I did not buy this car because it was a Mustang or because it was a Ford. I bought it because I liked it, me..not the general public. If you only purchased this car or any other expensive piece just to have it to brag about, you should really look at what you value. Obviously it isn't the car or product, its other peoples admiration or a phony feeling from a cold piece of metal. Sorry, It's true.....The Camaro is a nice car and I'm sure those that have one feel lucky, like you should about yours. The biggest improvement I see is the Magnetic shocks and more powerful engines. Yes it has larger tires, but they alone do not constitute great handling. Yes, there are many ways to modify the Mustang to handle way better then the Chevy, but it to can be similarly modified, so it's a tail chasing game. Me, I'm happy. The car is what I what and does more then I'll ever ask of it. I enjoy adding little touches to it, to make it more to my own liking, you can do the same. The magazines are just articles about a stock vehicle that they had at that time, nothing else. If you want more grip, change the tires, add a Watts link, change sway bars, or go for a supercharger. There's no one stopping you, but you.

what
 

yknot

Hobbies: Hot Rods & Shooting
As good as all those Camaro times are, and they are very impressive....I think the fastest is yet to come with the new Z/28 Camaro coming later in 2014. This is one car GM set out to kill all roomers' about the Ford Boss 302 being a track killer. The thing is made for one thing and one thing only...to road race. No AC, no options to speak of, simply a track killer with Ceramic brakes, yes the same ones that cost about 5,000.00 to service when that time comes. Even the tires are Goodyear F1's at about 750.00 a corner. The resale will be awful when people realize the amount of money it takes to do the maintenance, but then again people still buy Porsche's and all the other cars out there that are just as expensive to maintain! I doubt if they will sell more than 500 copies, that wasn't the point of building the car. The piont was to re-claim the track title from Ford and most any other car maker out there.

Ford has a great ideal with the boss...it's a great track car, but also a very affordable and street able car. Where the Ford is getting beat, is in the suspension. More to the point, the shocks, as GM seems to have perfected the Magnetic shocks they have. Other issues are the brakes...I would not want Ceramic disc...And the Tires...here again I would not want Goodyear F1'a. This is great for me, Ford figures the serious track guy will change those aspects, but the magazines tend, rightly so, to test the cars as they are equipped from the factory....This means ford will continue to get its butt kicked if they continue to do business as usual. It's all somatic....these cars equipped like real race cars sound great on paper, but in the real world, no one wants to drive a race car every day, or any day for very long. Personally, I care less about the press and water cooler want-a-bee talk. I like the layout of the Boos strategy, if you want a great street car buy a boss 302, if I want a more track car, then go for the Boss Laguna. Now if I want a strictly race car I can get a Boss 302S. Ford knows the difference between street and track, that seems to be the biggest difference between them and GM.
On another note...I have always wanted a 67-69 Camaro, from the time I was very, very young. I was more excited about the new generation Camaro then most when I first found out GM was building that model. The most disappointing day was the day I went to the dealer to look and drive one. First the view from the driver's seat is awful...The materials on the dash and other interior parts is trash, nothing more than raw plastic. The view out the rear is disgustingly small and dangerous. And I have to say, the real thing looked very much different from the magazine and press photos I watched for several years while they built the car. personally, the first renderings were much better looking than the final project, and I was very disappointed.
I have none of these problems with my Ford Mustang. I sit very comfortably when seated, the view out the front is great, and I see everything in the rear view mirror. The performance is much better than the GM, I like the feel and sound of this car, it has a character that the push rod engines don't have. For me, the outside appearance is also much better than the GM. Yes, I still occasionally see a Camaro at distance and get that old feeling, but it's not for the new Camaro, it started by that car, but the burn comes from the original Camaro from 1967-69. I have seen a million of these cars over the years, redone in every way you can think, but I still get that funny feeling when I see one up close and personal. Truthfully I get the same feeling from the early Ford Mustang as well, that 1969 to 1971 Mach1 is my downfall, every time.
So GM can build what they want, but until they build a car that speaks to me, fits me, and get's to me, I don't much care.
 
I might like the idea of buhing this z28
But to compare it to a boss is foolish
It can back fire in my opinion
Using a titanium rodded 427 inch motor just to
Keep up or possibly surpass these boss yrack cars is silly

I like the car as a whole except this carbon brake idea

And its not going to be cheap i guessed 65k stocker base
I bet its higher
 

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