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S197 3V Fabman's build; How did we get here? Build Thread

4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Didnt Cortex try?? And found the cambered axle was faster?? Seem to a vague memory of that.
I do remember it being close enough that it wasn't worth the effort to convert an s197 but an sn95 has the same architecture of a cobra so it it would bolt right in.
 
51
109
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Los Angeles
When I put the Cortex cambered rear in my 3V S197 with the 3-link (I don't like the way the torque arm drives) I saw a 2 second drop from a 1:59 lap time at Buttonwillow by the end of my first day. I have gotten that down a little more over the past year. The biggest gain I have seen with the cambered rear and the SLA front is that the car is still fast at the end of the race, the tires are much happier and you don't end up beating them up/overheating them mid-race like with the struts and straight axle.

With American Iron being dead in California I may need to get some Hoosiers for my 3V and make the trip up to Laguna with SCCA this year. NASA Nationals is going to be there, so could use the practice for when everyone shows up.

Can you run a Lexan windshield in ITE?
 
4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
When I put the Cortex cambered rear in my 3V S197 with the 3-link (I don't like the way the torque arm drives) I saw a 2 second drop from a 1:59 lap time at Buttonwillow by the end of my first day. I have gotten that down a little more over the past year. The biggest gain I have seen with the cambered rear and the SLA front is that the car is still fast at the end of the race, the tires are much happier and you don't end up beating them up/overheating them mid-race like with the struts and straight axle.

With American Iron being dead in California I may need to get some Hoosiers for my 3V and make the trip up to Laguna with SCCA this year. NASA Nationals is going to be there, so could use the practice for when everyone shows up.

Can you run a Lexan windshield in ITE?
There are only 3 rules:
ITE rules.JPG
 
4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Last time we were there (2014) I ran a 1:39.6 at Laguna. That was on Toyo RRs and a straight axle, so should be close to you if I put on Hoosiers.
I took a look at NASA up here and there really isn't much going on. The classes are mostly empty.
If it wasn't for them running HPDE and Time Trials at the same events they wouldn't even have a show.
SCCA isn't all that much better but they draw 200+ cars and every one of them is a race car.
Your car sounds like it would be very competitive in ITE. I'd love to have you come race with us.
 
4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Looks like I need to email SCCA and see if I can get my license back...
I think if you have a current NASA comp licence they will accept that. I'd check though.
 
4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
When I put the Cortex cambered rear in my 3V S197 with the 3-link (I don't like the way the torque arm drives) I saw a 2 second drop from a 1:59 lap time at Buttonwillow by the end of my first day. I have gotten that down a little more over the past year. The biggest gain I have seen with the cambered rear and the SLA front is that the car is still fast at the end of the race, the tires are much happier and you don't end up beating them up/overheating them mid-race like with the struts and straight axle.

With American Iron being dead in California I may need to get some Hoosiers for my 3V and make the trip up to Laguna with SCCA this year. NASA Nationals is going to be there, so could use the practice for when everyone shows up.

Can you run a Lexan windshield in ITE?
What happened to the American Iron series?
I originally built my car to compete in AIX but there were virtually no cars left so I went SCCA.
 
51
109
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Los Angeles
It's lost momentum in the west, basically if you take a new Mustang and build it to the rules you have to de-tune the Coyote to be at the 8.5 lb/hp ratio, while the S197 and earlier cars have a hard time meeting those numbers without a coyote swap (esp. the flat torque band.) So basically it is no longer interesting to a lot of new comers and the cars that are there have a hard time getting up to the modern performance levels. I've been racing an S197/3V with a 30hp and 70ftlb deficit for the last few years and have stayed pretty competitive with the Cortex suspension and getting weight out of the car, but the torque of the coyote kills me off of the corners. And if a good driver shows up in a Coyote/Cortex car it's all over. So I've been optimizing other areas and even started to build a 2.3L Ecoboost to drop front end weight and make the numbers but with the declining car count I have just decided to run a different series, hence why I bought a TA2 car. The TA2 is just a current roundy round Super Late Model set up for road racing, even though the car costs more the operating costs are actually the same or slightly lower than the AI car. We are trying to get a series going in NASA for the TA2 spec cars that will be vastly lower cost than running with SCCA Pro Racing. Price caps on components, 500hp at the wheels, Hooser slicks, etc. So I've been putting my energy into that.

Also another issue with AI is that it is a whole California series out here, unlike most where it's a regional class, so travelling for races from Chuckwalla all the way up to Thunderhill killed car count. The SoCal people didn't want to travel that far north and vice versa.

However in the East Coast regions AI is still thriving, and Texas there are still a few. Hence why I'm going to try and run my car in Nationals at Laguna Seca this year, a lot of cars are planning to make the trip out.

Link to the series we are trying to get started, ran a prototype season in Nasa TX and they have had great car counts and some good racing -
We have also been able to get some sponsorship for the series to help with costs which is nice.
 
4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
It's lost momentum in the west, basically if you take a new Mustang and build it to the rules you have to de-tune the Coyote to be at the 8.5 lb/hp ratio, while the S197 and earlier cars have a hard time meeting those numbers without a coyote swap (esp. the flat torque band.) So basically it is no longer interesting to a lot of new comers and the cars that are there have a hard time getting up to the modern performance levels. I've been racing an S197/3V with a 30hp and 70ftlb deficit for the last few years and have stayed pretty competitive with the Cortex suspension and getting weight out of the car, but the torque of the coyote kills me off of the corners. And if a good driver shows up in a Coyote/Cortex car it's all over. So I've been optimizing other areas and even started to build a 2.3L Ecoboost to drop front end weight and make the numbers but with the declining car count I have just decided to run a different series, hence why I bought a TA2 car. The TA2 is just a current roundy round Super Late Model set up for road racing, even though the car costs more the operating costs are actually the same or slightly lower than the AI car. We are trying to get a series going in NASA for the TA2 spec cars that will be vastly lower cost than running with SCCA Pro Racing. Price caps on components, 500hp at the wheels, Hooser slicks, etc. So I've been putting my energy into that.

Also another issue with AI is that it is a whole California series out here, unlike most where it's a regional class, so travelling for races from Chuckwalla all the way up to Thunderhill killed car count. The SoCal people didn't want to travel that far north and vice versa.

However in the East Coast regions AI is still thriving, and Texas there are still a few. Hence why I'm going to try and run my car in Nationals at Laguna Seca this year, a lot of cars are planning to make the trip out.

Link to the series we are trying to get started, ran a prototype season in Nasa TX and they have had great car counts and some good racing -
We have also been able to get some sponsorship for the series to help with costs which is nice.
I was looking at the rules a week or so ago and I see they changed the unlimited power/weight rule to a pounds/HP formula.
 
4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
It's lost momentum in the west, basically if you take a new Mustang and build it to the rules you have to de-tune the Coyote to be at the 8.5 lb/hp ratio, while the S197 and earlier cars have a hard time meeting those numbers without a coyote swap (esp. the flat torque band.) So basically it is no longer interesting to a lot of new comers and the cars that are there have a hard time getting up to the modern performance levels. I've been racing an S197/3V with a 30hp and 70ftlb deficit for the last few years and have stayed pretty competitive with the Cortex suspension and getting weight out of the car, but the torque of the coyote kills me off of the corners. And if a good driver shows up in a Coyote/Cortex car it's all over. So I've been optimizing other areas and even started to build a 2.3L Ecoboost to drop front end weight and make the numbers but with the declining car count I have just decided to run a different series, hence why I bought a TA2 car. The TA2 is just a current roundy round Super Late Model set up for road racing, even though the car costs more the operating costs are actually the same or slightly lower than the AI car. We are trying to get a series going in NASA for the TA2 spec cars that will be vastly lower cost than running with SCCA Pro Racing. Price caps on components, 500hp at the wheels, Hooser slicks, etc. So I've been putting my energy into that.

Also another issue with AI is that it is a whole California series out here, unlike most where it's a regional class, so travelling for races from Chuckwalla all the way up to Thunderhill killed car count. The SoCal people didn't want to travel that far north and vice versa.

However in the East Coast regions AI is still thriving, and Texas there are still a few. Hence why I'm going to try and run my car in Nationals at Laguna Seca this year, a lot of cars are planning to make the trip out.

Link to the series we are trying to get started, ran a prototype season in Nasa TX and they have had great car counts and some good racing -
We have also been able to get some sponsorship for the series to help with costs which is nice.
I was looking at this series but it doesn't look like the SLA is going to meet the rules though one might argue that the spring is located the same place and the lower control arm is also....so who knows.

https://www.ustcc.com/
 
4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
The biggest complaint I have is that there are no contingencies for ITE and the trophy's are borderline pathetic some of the time, though I did get a few decent ones, some are almost insulting.
Oval track I got huge trophies and cash payouts for hundreds or thousands of dollars depending on the race and here I got a beer stein with SCCA on it one weekend. :(

1934701_104712918534_5319824_n.jpg
1934701_104712928534_961764_n.jpg


I had to put colored paper in them so you could read what it said. :(
IMG_2767.jpg



Here is my "First overall" trophy from Thunderhill:

DSCF1394.JPG


But that's okay, they make up for the lack of decent trophies by not paying us. 😝
 
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Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
450
449
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
With the roundy-round, you got what the promoter decided to pay out. With SCCA, you're actually getting a cut of the gate. :ohdamn:

Some of this probably goes back into the mists of time when the SCCA was originally formed as a club for gentleman racers, with strictly-enforced amateur status of drivers early on (IIRC), which led to the creation of a completely separate (SCCA Pro vs SCCA Club) corporate group for "professional" races with payouts.
 
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4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
With the roundy-round, you got what the promoter decided to pay out. With SCCA, you're actually getting a cut of the gate. :ohdamn:

Some of this probably goes back into the mists of time when the SCCA was originally formed as a club for gentleman racers, with strictly-enforced amateur status of drivers early on (IIRC), which led to the creation of a completely separate (SCCA Pro vs SCCA Club) corporate group for "professional" races with payouts.
Not much of a cut when the entry fee is $650.00 and they are paying zero to win.
I used to pay $35.00 to win $3000.00
My local amateur oval track paid 500 to 1000 to win weekly with certain shows paying in the thousands.
 
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4,621
4,533
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
I remember way back in the day one of the on air personalities on ESPN saying:
"With road racing you need a million dollar car to race for $100,000.00.
In NASCAR you have a $100,000.00 car to race for a million dollars."
 

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