Five Speed or Six Speed?

[ChrisM]

Since I've been given the green light to swap to a Tremec six speed, I want to make sure I've weighed all the pros and cons before I start purchasing parts. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with my 3650, but I've got a few issues. The nut connecting the linkage to the transmission has backed out on me twice now, despite the use of Loc-Tite (at least, I'm pretty sure I used it...). I despise the clutch. I currently have an Exedy clutch, though I don't recall the exact one. I was hoping that replacing the stock clutch would reduce the clutch effort, but to no avail. When I drive others' cars I darn near put my foot through the floor because I'm so used to the heavy Mustang clutch. I also have a stainless steel clutch line and an MGW shifter. So, here's my two options:

Tremec Magnum XL swap and all the accompanying things that go with it

or

Twin disk clutch (recommendations?)
Blowfish bracket

Does the Tremec weigh more? What about the gearing? Would just getting a different clutch and the Blowfish Bracket fix most of my woes? I'm very certain I won't be making enough power, ever, to need a monster transmission. I don't mind spending the money but if just modifying the current transmission will take care of it I'd much rather do that and spend the money saved elsewhere.

 

[302BOB]

My stock hydro clutch in my Boss is easy to take..I had to get rid of my ScionTC because the manual clutch in that was like a truck.It seems there was a problem somewhere in your drivetrain?

 

[ChrisM]

My stock hydro clutch in my Boss is easy to take..I had to get rid of my ScionTC because the manual clutch in that was like a truck.It seems there was a problem somewhere in your drivetrain?

The clutch in the 3650 is much heavier than the Boss clutch. Driving a Boss a few years back is what made me realize just how heavy my clutch is in comparison. No problem in the drivetrain (except the linkage), the clutches on the 05-09 GTs are just...truck-like...as you said.

 

[302BOB]

ChrisM, I know, Off topic, But Just curious, How's the weather in Japan?

 

[ChrisM]

Right now it's a little chilly for my tastes. I was down in the Fukuoka prefecture all last week for work and it snowed more than half the days.

 

[302BOB]

Strange how winters across the globe are the same.....Good luck with your car!

 

[pufferfish]

I am in the middle of swapping the 4.6L and TR3650 in my 08 track car to a 5.0L and TR6060. I really wanted to keep the 5 speed (lighter and no need to swap parts), but the 5th gear ratio drops the RPM’s too much. Then I found out that there are no gear options available. The 6060 is better supported. Pick any gear ratio you want, carbon blocker rings, better clutch options. The transmissions are also much easier to find used. And for race car guys, the GT500 has an optional cooler setup for the 13-14 model. And of course, utilizing the Blowfish Shifter Support!


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[ChrisM]

I am in the middle of swapping the 4.6L and TR3650 in my 08 track car to a 5.0L and TR6060. I really wanted to keep the 5 speed (lighter and no need to swap parts), but the 5th gear ratio drops the RPM’s too much. Then I found out that there are no gear options available. The 6060 is better supported. Pick any gear ratio you want, carbon blocker rings, better clutch options. The transmissions are also much easier to find used. And for race car guys, the GT500 has an optional cooler setup for the 13-14 model. And of course, utilizing the Blowfish Shifter Support!


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Interesting. Does that bolt up to the 4.6?

 

[pufferfish]

All the mod motors(4.6, 5.0, 5.4, 5.8), have the same bell pattern.


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[blacksheep-1]

Not to hijack this thread..too much anyway, but I don't know how many of you remember the Doug Nash 5 speeds. Back when you actually had to shift to race in pro stock, they decided to allow Lenco planetary trannys, they of course outran the manuals, until the DN showed up which out ran them. At this point everyone had the Lencos so NHRA in their questionable wisdom, outlawed them, Now the DN was created by the namesake who worke don the Ford GT40 program, basically, he made a trans case and used the guts for the GT tran axle in it. The key thing here is that the final drive for the DN is 1 to 1, just like a 4 speed, you changed tranny gear ratios to get the optimum acceleration, instead of installing the rear end gear..it was brilliant, and since final drive was 1 to 1 it was way more durable than any overdrive unit. So instead of running say a 4.1 final drive with an overdrive, you ran a..say 355 and changed the internals. This allowed way less gear speed in the diff, less wear, and a stronger trans.
Why these are not used much anymore is beyond me.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Oh and no twin disc clutch, find a decent single disc and use an aluminum flywheel. I'm 99% sure this is what we use, in any case, it's a single disc. I have a Spec single in my GT500.

https://www.exedyusa.com/products/sport-products/sport-hyper-single-series/


http://www.specclutches.com/693399

 

[ChrisM]

Oh and no twin disc clutch, find a decent single disc and use an aluminum flywheel. I'm 99% sure this is what we use, in any case, it's a single disc. I have a Spec single in my GT500.

https://www.exedyusa.com/products/sport-products/sport-hyper-single-series/


http://www.specclutches.com/693399

Is that going to reduce the pedal effort? I have an Exedy single disc clutch and aluminum flywheel already and it's still a bear to use. If that's just the way it's going to be, well, I've driven it for years already.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Well, it doesn't seem to be any worse than the stock twin disc clutch...the system is hydraulic, back in the day, we had clutches where your leg would spasm at redlights.

 

[RodS197]

You asked about ratios... Here are the ratios I have collected. Yes, when I’m not working on my car or trying to grenade my TR-3650, I am collecting gear ratios for transmissions I can’t afford!

My personal favorite would be the FR500C, of which there is a brand new one available on eBay (except it has a 10 spline input shaft) or the GT500 2007-2009.

TR-3650 OEM gear ratio
1st 3.38 42mph
2nd 2.0 71mph 29mph
3rd 1.32 107mph 36mph
4th 1.0 142mph 35mph
5th 0.675 210mph 2475rpm

TR6060 (stock GT500 2007-2009)
1st 2.97 48mph
2nd 1.78 80mph 32mph
3rd 1.30 109mph 29mph
4th 1.00 142mph 33mph
5th .80 177mph
6th .63 224mph 2250rpm

TR6060 (stock GT500 2010-2012)
1st 2.97 48mph
2nd 1.78 80mph 32mph
3rd 1.30 109mph 29mph
4th 1.00 142mph 33mph
5th .74 191mph
6th .50 283mph 1875rpm

T-56 Close Ratio Gear Set
1st 2.66 53mph
2nd 1.78 80mph 27mph
3rd 1.30 109mph 29mph
4th 1.00 142mph 33mph
5th .74 191mph
6th .50 283mph 1875rpm

T-56 Drag Race Gear Set
1st 2.97 48mph
2nd 2.07 68mph 20mph
3rd 1.43 99mph 31mph
4th 1.00 142mph 43mph
5th .80 177mph
6th .63 224mph 2250rpm

T-56 FR500C Transmission
1st 2.99
2nd 1.61
3rd 1.22
4th 1.00
5th .85
6th .75

MT-82
1st 3.66 39mph
2nd 2.43 58mph 32mph
3rd 1.69 84mph 29mph
4th 1.32 107mph 33mph
5th 1.00 142mph 35mph
6th .65 218mph 2375rpm

 

[racer47]

Attached is an excel file with tabs for most of the late model mustang manual transmissions. There are many gearing calculators online but none of them had everything I wanted, so I made this one. Check it out and let me know if you have any questions. You need to download the file and change the extension back to .xls from its current .txt because the forum would not let me upload an excel file directly.

 

[racer47]

I am in the middle of swapping the 4.6L and TR3650 in my 08 track car to a 5.0L and TR6060. I really wanted to keep the 5 speed (lighter and no need to swap parts), but the 5th gear ratio drops the RPM’s too much. Then I found out that there are no gear options available. The 6060 is better supported. Pick any gear ratio you want, carbon blocker rings, better clutch options. The transmissions are also much easier to find used. And for race car guys, the GT500 has an optional cooler setup for the 13-14 model. And of course, utilizing the Blowfish Shifter Support!

G-Force makes a 5 speed gear set with a 26 spline input. 1st to 4th are spaced very nicely. 5th is a big gap. You would need to run a rear gear such that 1-4 are your track gears and 5 is a highway gear. But I think your car is no longer used on the street.

I ended up with a 6060 as well for the other reasons you mentioned. Plus the G Force gear set is a bit pricey.

 

[ChrisM]

The TR6060 is also a remote mount shifter assembly, which is one reason I was considering the T56 as a replacement. I don't necessarily need the extra strength of either one, just not a fan of the remote mount shifter assembly. If the Blowfish bracket can take care of that and a better clutch can reduce pedal effort, I don't think I can justify the huge price. I loved the Boss transmission when I drove that, the clutch pedal was effortless, but I doubt that mine will ever be as smooth as that.

 

[pufferfish]

The TR6060 is also a remote mount shifter assembly, which is one reason I was considering the T56 as a replacement. I don't necessarily need the extra strength of either one, just not a fan of the remote mount shifter assembly. If the Blowfish bracket can take care of that and a better clutch can reduce pedal effort, I don't think I can justify the huge price. I loved the Boss transmission when I drove that, the clutch pedal was effortless, but I doubt that mine will ever be as smooth as that.

The Blowfish really does a good job of taking the sloppiness out of the remote mount shifters. That, and you get the driveshaft safety loop....and you get your choice of driveshafts, not the xl specific one.

The only real advantage I see to the xl is the fact that the bell housing is divorced from the trans, so if a blowproof bell is needed, you can do it.


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[ChrisM]

Follow-up to the saga, the shop was able to replace the bolt and even sent me pictures on how they did it. The owner has been in business for something like 20 years. Dad reports that the shifting is even crisper than before. I guess those stripped threads must have been causing some sloppiness in the entire shifter. Looks like I'll be going with the Blowfish bracket for the time being to really clean it up and continue looking at clutches. Thanks for the help folks.