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Flex Fuel for a 3V

Boone

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Has anyone used (or even heard of) the ProFlex Commander from Advanced Fuel Dynamics? I saw an article on Grassroots and contacted them. Their kit mounts a FlexFuel sensor before the fuel rails to determine the ethanol content of the fuel in real time. It calculates the fuel octane at the sensor to modify the fuel delivery requirements of any tune. It works by modifying the injector pulse width in a stock or aftermarket tune. A rep at AFD tells me the system does not change timing, but it "creates a condition where your knock sensing system will advance timing on its own." I could run E90, E50, or 93 octane without a tune change, and apparently the kit will make the most of whatever octane is available.

3%2F3633%2F7986%2Fproducts%2FPFC-EDGE-1L_1200x1200.jpg

ProFlex Commander for Ford Mustang GT 4.6
The patented ProFlex™ Commander adaptive flex fuel system for 19999-2010 4.6L Mustang GT allows you to start making more power and running cooler with E85. True plug and play flex-fuel for your Mod Motor in about an hour with no tuning required. ProFlex Commander Features: Complete system -...
s%2F1%2F0103%2F3633%2F7986%2Ffiles%2FFavicon_32x32.png
www.advancedfueldynamics.com

My point is, I've always thought the FlexFuel systems were the way to go with a street / track car. This possibility is the reason I ordered my new pistons at 9.5:1 instead of staying at 11:1 with boost. I can run 93 octane, but I don't want to, but I could in a pinch. Now I'm feeling like there could be some modern fuel convenience for my 3V. It would be nice not to have to test the E85 ethanol content every time I pull up to a pump. Not to mention, if I'm low on fuel, and the E85 at the pump samples at E50, I don't want to start walking 10 miles to the next E85 station.

Does this add too much complexity to the system? Is it just another thing to break? Flex fuel tech is available for almost any newer vehicle. Why not a 3V?
 

ChrisM

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I don't really know anything about flex fuels, but as far as added complexity, I would ask this: will it hurt anything to try it out? It sounds like it has a lot of benefits and very few, if any, downsides. If that's the case, I say give it a shot. Sounds like the worst that could happen is you're back to square one.
 

Boone

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I think I'm going to go for it. The technology is really pretty simple for the fuel delivery. Measure alcohol content, do the math, adjust the pulse width. Also, the faster flame front of alcohol means that advancing the timing on E85 isn't as critical compared to gasoline, so no big deal that the ProFlex Commander doesn't adjust timing directly.

Looks like I may have to register my car with NC Wildlife. The BOAT acronym applies. Break out another thousand.
 

JDee

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Looks like I may have to register my car with NC Wildlife. The BOAT acronym applies. Break out another thousand.
Hah! Good one. Did the sailing thing for quite a few years and it's pretty accurate! The other marine saying about money is "sailing is like standing in a cold shower tearing up thousand dollar bills".

I figure a decent racing analogy is "racing cars is like sitting in a hot sauna tearing up ten thousand dollar bills."
 

Anti

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Well, let us know how it goes, Boone. You are not the only 3v owner wondering this same thing.
 

ARMORINE

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if you really wanting flex fuel i have a suggestion. the 2010 5.4 3v f150s had flex fuel from the factory. you could snag a ECM from them and work from there. they used an inline ethanol sensor and multiple tuning tables just like modern flex fuel vehicles.
 

blacksheep-1

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IMO there's no need to even deal with E85, Sal runs that corrosive stuff in his supercharged car on track days to prevent the Intake Air from pulling timing (among other things) You will go through a ton of that stuff as well. You must realize that there are 2 ways to measure octane, the good way, is strictly by octane measurement, the 2nd IMO crappy way, is by the fuel's resistance to knock, so, E...whatever is clearly resistant to knock to it gets an (artificially) high octane rating, I would assume that water would get a even higher number. but you can't run your car on it. Another way to prevent knock is by water injection, but again, you have to balance that by increasing fuel, timing and compression. You live in NC, I don't think there are any emission tests there, just pull the cats, shut off the down stream O2 sensors and run race gas on track days. I think you'd be much farther ahead.

 

ARMORINE

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im gonna have to disagree with you blacksheep. i run E85 in my 07. the engines built strictly for it however. E85 has a octane rating of around 102, depending on its ethanol content...and how you measure it.

at the end of the day its poor mans race gas which is why i run it. its under 2 dollars a gallon here in tulsa. when i go to the track i carry 10 extra gallons with me in 2 VP jugs. it gives me enough fuel to run 5 sessions at max effort and still have a quarter tank left when i head back to town.

for reference fuel consumption on E85 is around 28% more. on my engine ive seen fuel consumption as high as 2 miles per gallon. at hallet i average around 4 mpg though it varies based on conditions quite a bit

im well past the stage in life im willing to mess with flex fuel. if i set up a vehicle for a fuel type thats what its going to run on. a good buddy of mine has a camaro he runs a flex setup on though its still a street car, he likes it.
 

blacksheep-1

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im gonna have to disagree with you blacksheep. i run E85 in my 07. the engines built strictly for it however. E85 has a octane rating of around 102, depending on its ethanol content...and how you measure it.

at the end of the day its poor mans race gas which is why i run it. its under 2 dollars a gallon here in tulsa. when i go to the track i carry 10 extra gallons with me in 2 VP jugs. it gives me enough fuel to run 5 sessions at max effort and still have a quarter tank left when i head back to town.

for reference fuel consumption on E85 is around 28% more. on my engine ive seen fuel consumption as high as 2 miles per gallon. at hallet i average around 4 mpg though it varies based on conditions quite a bit

im well past the stage in life im willing to mess with flex fuel. if i set up a vehicle for a fuel type thats what its going to run on. a good buddy of mine has a camaro he runs a flex setup on though its still a street car, he likes it.

Your first sentence says it all....
 

ARMORINE

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i should clarify when i say its built strickly for it the only diference between it and a normal stroker 3v is higher compression. its running 11.7. like i said its poor mans race gas.

prolly end up running the wifes race car on it once we get it up and running
 

Boone

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I want to run E85 for the power and cooling characteristics. Also, it's readily available here in NC, at least in my area. Much more so than race gas. I do live in an emissions monitored county as well, so gutting the cats would fail me unless I'm running E85.

I have a confession, I'm lazy. I don't want to test the E85 every time I stop to get fuel, and I don't trust E85 blends that can legally range from 51 - 85% ethanol. Going flex-fuel will allow me to pump anything that is available. Kind of like college.
 

ARMORINE

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your not going to pick up a ton of power going to E85 if your not boosted unless your engines higher compression. honestly even if your not flex fuel you can get away with just swapping whats in the tank. i carry a handheld tuner in the car at all times. if i ever ended up stuck somewhere without E85 i could load a 91 tune and cruise it wherever i can get some. wouldn't be able to WOT and id have to be gentle on it but it would get the job done.
 

Boone

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@ARMORINE, I carry my tuner with me in the center console. I considered swapping tunes when needed, but the thought of sitting at a pump with "Karen" honking her horn urging me to move while I'm loading a tune makes me cringe.

I am boosting this setup to make 650whp on about 12 lbs of boost (or hopefully less). I'm not running a massively oversized intercooler setup, so the cooling of E85 is needed. I am lowering my compression from 11:1 to 9.5:1 for the boosted setup. 9.5:1 is still a little high for a 3V with 10+psi boost, but I'm counting on the E85 to resist knock a little more than pump gas.
 

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