Forced Induction

[Sesshomurai]

How much power can the stock motor realistically handle? Id love to have 600-700 rwhp (within Tremec limits), either through a supercharger or turbos, but what can I upgrade internally to ensure reliability.

Anyone know what the weakest link is?

If we bumped power gradually, what would be the first part to go, and then the second? Third? Fourth? I would love to build my engine, but I dont have 25K to spend.

Furthermore, how can you strengthen an engine to handle nitrous? How frequently can nitrous be used?

Just throwing a bunch of questions.

This is what i will find out. But the major upgrades needed to ensure the motor doesnt fail are listed in my first post more or less. Assuming you have beefed up the drivetrain the motor could experience things like cracked piston. Lifting a head. Blown injector. Crank snapping. Etc. Depends on how the hp is being laid down. In road racing its gradual.for example.

Having said all this the motor is already capable of around 600bhp tolerance without blinking. But for how long is the question.

 

[steveespo]

How much power can the stock motor realistically handle? Id love to have 600-700 rwhp (within Tremec limits), either through a supercharger or turbos, but what can I upgrade internally to ensure reliability.

Anyone know what the weakest link is?

If we bumped power gradually, what would be the first part to go, and then the second? Third? Fourth? I would love to build my engine, but I dont have 25K to spend.

Furthermore, how can you strengthen an engine to handle nitrous? How frequently can nitrous be used?

Just throwing a bunch of questions.

Stock Road Runners should be reliable for 550-600 rwhp in a supercharged application. Beyond that level the stock rods and piston ring lands become weak points, and at high boost levels required to get above 600, the block itself needs reinforcing at the coolant passages adjacent to the thrust side (outside) of the cylinders. There have been reports of cracked and broken cylinder wales at this location. A few builders are experimenting with pinning this area or epoxy filling to reinforce it.

The Magnum 6060 should be good for 700 ft/lbs torque and 1000 HP. This depends a lot on how it's maintained and shifted. Shock loads such as drag racing and flat shifting will limit life and decrease reliability.

Nitrous should be avoided on road race engine and used with care on drag race engines. The on off kick will upset the car on a road course and I worry about the variables on air fuel ratio to keep reliability.

Turbos are good if well engineered and the car has improved oil capacity and cooling. The radiator should be upgraded to take the heat load of cooling the turbos.
Turbo charging gives the most efficient increase in net power to the wheels and is also lighter than mechanical supercharging.

Controlling heat is the most important thing when increasing power output. The tune needs to take coolant and intake air temps into account when creating the fuel, spark and boost tables. Tuning for max power by leaning mixture and jacking the timing will cause detonation and failure. Drag engines are more tolerant of this because of the short run duration and the fact that there is substantial cool off time between runs. They ice down manifolds and inter coolers and can flush radiators with fresh water between runs. This allows more leeway in the tune. Road race cars need to have a larger safety margins in the tune.

Fuel supply becomes the next weak link above 600 WHP. Stock "pump hats" should be upgraded to increase volume and injectors should be sized to run at 85% of their max capacity at maximum power. Running an injector at 100% duty cycle at peak power invites lean running and pisto/ring failure.

Do your research before spending big cash and use an engine builder who specializes in the type of racing you are looking to do. Off the shelf solutions from Ford Racing or the big time vendors such as Roush or Saleen will be the safest and cheapest. If you go custom go with a big name tuning house that specializes in Coyote/Road Runner-CopperHead combos.
Good luck and keep us up to date with your progress.
Steve

 

[sadil]

Thanks guys for your responses. I love this thread because I believe the Boss motor has tons of potential above what can be achieved by basic bolt-ons. I love naturally aspirated but think other options should be investigated. I am primarily interested in road-racing and over time will upgrade everything. For now, I am interested in some minor suspension work and power so I keep up with my buddies locally @ the strip. All of them drive BMW 335's with some sort of tunes, except one guy who drives a GTR. The BMW's are fast @ about 425 rwhp and they have decent torque from their turbos, and the GTR is well...a GTR. I want to show these guys who's Boss. That GTR is going to be tough to beat, but with a nice supercharger, I think it wont be a problem as long as i get the car to hook.

The Procharger system is impressive. I know Boostaholic Racing has done a build with a Boss 302, absolute monster. I just cant find anymore info on the project other then this video on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lsTdqv0TSs

Also looks like Lethal Performance went with a Vortech Supercharger

Sarosh

 

[NewBossowner]

Fuel supply becomes the next weak link above 600 WHP. Stock "pump hats" should be upgraded to increase volume and injectors should be sized to run at 85% of their max capacity at maximum power. Running an injector at 100% duty cycle at peak power invites lean running and pisto/ring failure.

Kenne Bell Sells what they call Boost a Pump, suppose to adress the limits of the stock pump in High boost applications.
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Accessories_pg/Boost%20A%20Pump/layouts/boostapump.htm

I looked at Roush and emailed them about their S/C kits. They said and I quote. " We do not build anything that will work with a Boss. "

I asked a lot of questions and read a ton of " claims" most were answered with " sorry our kits makes 550 to 575 Horsepower on a Boss. "

Turbos are always a plumbing nightmare. I have never been a fan.

 

[steveespo]

This is what I meant about over boosting the Coyote block. Ford Racing supposedly has a new heavy duty block coming out

Steve

 

[Sesshomurai]

Steve. Do you know if that new block is a 5.0L 4v?

 

[Grant 302]

Steve. Do you know if that new block is a 5.0L 4v?

That's my understanding. Just thicker at the cylinder water jackets.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Here is a shot of the new Ford Racing "high hp" coyote block:

 

[Sesshomurai]

Here is a shot of the new Ford Racing "high hp" coyote block:

 

[steveespo]

That is the one. There are some prototype blocks going around to Ford drag racers and tuner shops now, should be released in April. Isn't it funny how you spend 40+k on a car and then replace half of the major components? This will be a $5000 block easy bare. I will go with a N/A Aluminator when my engine lays down.
Steve

 

[Sesshomurai]

That is the one. There are some prototype blocks going around to Ford drag racers and tuner shops now, should be released in April. Isn't it funny how you spend 40+k on a car and then replace half of the major components? This will be a $5000 block easy bare. I will go with a N/A Aluminator when my engine lays down.
Steve

Yep. But basically we bought "a platform". :-[

 

[tlflow]

How much power can the stock motor realistically handle? Id love to have 600-700 rwhp (within Tremec limits), either through a supercharger or turbos, but what can I upgrade internally to ensure reliability.

Anyone know what the weakest link is?

If we bumped power gradually, what would be the first part to go, and then the second? Third? Fourth? I would love to build my engine, but I dont have 25K to spend.

Furthermore, how can you strengthen an engine to handle nitrous? How frequently can nitrous be used?

Just throwing a bunch of questions.

the oil pump

 

[tlflow]

Kenne Bell Sells what they call Boost a Pump, suppose to adress the limits of the stock pump in High boost applications.
http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Accessories_pg/Boost%20A%20Pump/layouts/boostapump.htm

I looked at Roush and emailed them about their S/C kits. They said and I quote. " We do not build anything that will work with a Boss. "

I asked a lot of questions and read a ton of " claims" most were answered with " sorry our kits makes 550 to 575 Horsepower on a Boss. "

Turbos are always a plumbing nightmare. I have never been a fan.

this guy can hook you up.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford/2012-ford-mustang-boss-302-hpe700-by-hennessey-ar115425.html

 

[NewBossowner]

this guy can hook you up.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford/2012-ford-mustang-boss-302-hpe700-by-hennessey-ar115425.html

I called them as well. Their kit is $16,000 dollars. Seems like your paying a big premium to buy from them. There werent any extra special parts for that amount.

 

[tlflow]

I called them as well. Their kit is $16,000 dollars. Seems like your paying a big premium to buy from them. There werent any extra special parts for that amount.

Hennessey HPE650 Boss 302 Package Features
-TVS2300 supercharger system
-Hennessey strut tower brace
-High flow throttle body upgrade
-High flow air induction system
-High flow fuel injectors
-Factory exhaust bypasses opened
-All necessary gaskets and fluids
-Hennessey custom engine management calibration
-Professional installation
-Chassis dyno testing and road tuning
-Hennessey HPE650 Supercharged badging
-Hennessey premium floor mats
-Hennessey carbon fiber door sill covers
-Serial numbered dash and engine compartment plaques

I hear they do good work

 

[tlflow]

Does Team Roush run the SC on the track?

 

[sadil]

Im pretty sure Roush runs our engine as with all of the Boss 302's in the Continental Tire series. The only difference in the engine is its high capacity oil reservoir.

 

[Justin]

Maybe BBR can chime in and say what they have seen or recommend. They have put a TT kits on a couple of bosses with stock blocks. havent heard of them splitting a cylinder wall

 

[tlflow]

Is anyone racing a SC 5.0?

 

[NewBossowner]

Back to that cost not an object thing. Have you looked at this?

http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/2013_5_0L_TI_VCT_COBRA_JET_SUPERCHARGED_ENGINE_p/m-6000-scj13.htm