GT350 R Carbon Fiber Wheels

[VoodooBoss]

I see lots of discussion around the web about the cost of these wheels. Some estimates are as high as $14K a set. I think they are a lot less than that but who knows what Ford is going to charge for them. I don't think Ford is paying over $1K each but maybe I'm too optimistic. Here's a great shot of them.

 

[Grant 302]

I see lots of discussion around the web about the cost of these wheels. Some estimates are as high as $14K a set. I think they are a lot less than that but who knows what Ford is going to charge for them. I don't think Ford is paying over $1K each but maybe I'm too optimistic. I believe these wheels have aluminum centers and they are no true CF wheels like on a Koenigsegg. Anyway here's a great shot of them.

[ i mg width=900 height=600]http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32593&stc=1&d=1435108459[/img]

$14k!?! because they're worth more than the MSRP option for the R, including the markup therein? That's just ____.

The main variable cost will be *how* they are made. I'm sure Ford helped make the process and design economical, and then had the supply competitively bid if not done through a collaborative partnership of some sort.

I think under $1k each sounds reasonable. At 750 R units a year, that would be less than $3M/year purchase order contract. Sounds pretty good to me to make only 3,000 units plus spares. Everything could probably done for half that, if you assume a 3 year run and a total of 10,000 units.

 

[VoodooBoss]

They won't cost that much and the highest guess I've seen is $5K each! That's way off the mark. In the video below Carbon Rev, the makers of the GT350 wheels, states a set for a Porsche is $15K. I think the R wheel will be about half that at retail. They are not the same wheels either. Just as strong and light but not finished the same and slightly different design changed for higher production numbers. You can get cost down a lot when you go from 100 wheels up to 10,000.

Porsche Wheel



R wheel, notice it's painted.

I posted this video over a year ago.
https://youtu.be/gWiTky3zZXQ

 

[TMSBOSS]

If they can make a set come in at a price below $$5.5K and be durable, they may make an impact on the whole market.

High end aluminum wheel are close in cost.

 

[Grant 302]

And now I know why I didn't play a Jay Leno video a year ago.

If you can't feel a 10lb. per corner difference in acceleration alone, I don't think you spend much time *actually* driving. I don't understand why there wasn't an opinion from the pro who coached Jay in the first session. Maybe he got too technical for the final cut.

And the $1k/wheel sounds reasonable for the cost to Ford. I'm sure we'll pay much, much more if we damage one.

 

[F18SMM]

You would not want an aluminum center since it would cause galvanic corrosion. Most people believe carbor fiber / graphite does not corrode they are correct, however when placed next to aluminum it will excelerate the corrosion of the aluminum and without proper prevention and treatment it wll weaken the wheel greatly over time.
Carbon fiber / graphite has very high strenght to weight values but it has very low resistance to impact damage. There can be damage that is not visibale and can only be detected by ultrasonic or x-ray inspections.
As far as the paint on the wheels it serves two purposes. First it will cut down ot the production cost since the manufacturer will not have to worry about the final finish / appearance. Second it will help to prevent moisture be absorbed into micro pores in the fiber causing seperation between the plies.
All of this is based on my expierance with composite materials on military aircraft.

 

[ChopSui]

Serious question, how would carbon fiber cause galvanic corrosion?

 

[VoodooBoss]

I'm not buying that either. I have a CF fork on my Litespeed bicycle that's 16 years old. The CF legs are bonded to an aluminum crown just like these wheels are. No issues so far. I also have CF handlebars on my MTB mounted to an aluminum stem with no issues. Do you have any links that discuss this issue?

 

[ChopSui]

" I believe these wheels have aluminum centers and they are no true CF wheels like on a Koenigsegg."

I couldn't find the source but my understanding was that the only metal on the GT350 wheels besides the stem are the protective sleeves around the lug holes. Otherwise they're all carbon fiber. (The Koenigsegg doesn't use lug nuts.) The only other difference that I know of besides the paint is that the Mustang wheels have that spray coating inside the barrel to protect them from the brake heat.

Here's an interesting video on how the Koenigsegg wheels are made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGGiuaQwcd8

 

[VoodooBoss]

I've also been trying to find the information where I read that but can't find it so I'm probably wrong. There's an article or blog post talking about the construction of the wheels out there somewhere. There are some differences that make them easier and less expensive to manufacturer. Regardless these are not going to cost $15K a set.

 

[ChopSui]

Yeah there's no way they'll be that much. That's more than the difference between a GT350R and non R.

Well I take that back a little, if supply is severely constrained, I suppose Ford could charge whatever for retail but they certainly wont be paying that much for them.

 

[four-walling]

I've also been trying to find the information where I read that but can't find it so I'm probably wrong. There's an article or blog post talking about the construction of the wheels out there somewhere. There are some differences that make them easier and less expensive to manufacturer. Regardless these are not going to cost $15K a set.

Found this-the wheels are joint effort of Ford, DOW Chemical and Aksa:

http://www.mustangandfords.com/news/1505-2015-ford-shelby-gt350r-mustang-gets-carbon-fiber-wheels-as-standard-equipment/#__federated=1

 

[F18SMM]

Can't provide direct link due to it being on secure web site but here are a few quotes.

NAVAIR 01-1A-21
01 August 2011

1 6AL‑4V Titanium. Titanium is a
corrosion resistant structural material that is lightweight
and galvanically compatible with carbon composites. Other
advantages of titanium include a high strength-to-weight
ratio, good toughness and a coefficient of thermal expansion comparable with that of carbon/epoxy.

7075‑T76 Aluminum. This is a high
strength aluminum alloy with improved stress corrosion
resistance. Use Alclad material to provide better corrosion
resistance. Due to the galvanic corrosion potential between
aluminum and carbon composites, a fay surface seal
between the patch and part should always be used.

Galvanic Compatibility. To prevent corrosion
of the fasteners, they must be galvanically compatible
with the composite skin and the repair patch material.
Titanium is the material of choice for most bolted repair
applications.

CAUTION
Aircraft construction utilizing carbon/epoxy
fiber composite materials and metal structure or substructure creates a high potential for
establishing galvanic corrosion cells. This can
result in corrosion of the metal components if the
structure is exposed to an electrolyte medium,
such as salt water.

Believe me or don't, I said in my post that all information based on MY experience with composite materials and military aircraft

http://www.pemnet.com/design_info/galvanic.html
http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm

 

[VoodooBoss]

I don't doubt you but I don't think it's an issue in this application. Note that the 6AL refers to the aluminum content in the Ti. The center of the wheel is still riding up against an aluminum hub on the spindle unless Ford did something different there. Good info nonetheless.

Kerry, that article is referring to other CF components not the wheels. It's been well documented the wheels are from Carbon Revolution in Australia. To put any doubt to rest look at the stickers on the inside of this wheel.

I could have sworn I read the spokes attached to an aluminum center but it sure doesn't look that way. :-[

 

[Grant 302]

Looks like 5 separate aluminum inserts...the conical seat parts look anodized. No reason to assume the rest of the aluminum isn't. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about galvanic reactions. Well, unless anyone plans on driving on road salt...

 

[blacksheep-1]

I think you should srsly consider NOT using them, for the same reason that I'm not a proponent of CF driveshafts. They are extremely light and strong in a specific plae or application, they also will not stand up to damage very well. There have been documented cases of CF driveshafts being damaged by road debris, breaking or shattering under stress. The same would apply to these wheels, great idea if you have an unlimited budget (and great idea if you're tired of hurling 60 pound wheel assemblies around all day) but once they are scuffed or defaced, possibly even by removing the wheel weights, those wheels are all done. IMO once that structure is compromised and brake fluid, oil, water or other road crud seeps into them , they will be a grenade waiting to go off.
Just my 2 cents

 

[four-walling]

Amen.

How many people are diligent enough to check the condition of the wheels.

Not just racing applications-simple things like damage after hitting a curb.

 

[F18SMM]

If you are just relying on a visual inspection to determine damage it will be to late. They make ultrasonic tap hammers to detect voids and ply separation (disbond /delamination) and they are not the most accurate and it would be a long process to perform on each wheel after each use. The type of ultrasonic equipment required to perform quality inspections cost way more than the average person would be willing to pay.
Carbon fiber is a great for body panels and wings, but I would never trust it for a driveshaft or rim just my opinion based on my 15 years of experience working with it.

 

[VoodooBoss]

If you are just relying on a visual inspection to determine damage it will be to late. They make ultrasonic tap hammers to detect voids and ply separation (disbond /delamination) and they are not the most accurate and it would be a long process to perform on each wheel after each use. The type of ultrasonic equipment required to perform quality inspections cost way more than the average person would be willing to pay.
Carbon fiber is a great for body panels and wings, but I would never trust it for a driveshaft or rim just my opinion based on my 15 years of experience working with it.

Excellent post. I think many R owners will buy track wheels and save the CF ones for cars and coffee. At least that's what I plan on doing if I can get my hands on one in 2017.

 

[VoodooBoss]

New article stating the CF wheels weigh 18 lbs. A quality AL wheel should be in the 22 lbs. range for a 19x11. Hmmm I thought I read they were 15 lbs. Shouldn't be a problem putting slightly heavier wheels on the car.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/10/shelby-gt350r-offers-first-mass-produced-carbon-fiber-wheels/