The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

HELP! P0010 and P0012 - camshaft position sensor issues

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
Since my last trip to Limerock Park I started getting P0010 and P0012 codes. It can pop up randomly, even under very tame street driving. I am VERY hesitent to take my LS back to the 2 local Ford dealers, neither one of them had any allocation for a Boss in 2012 (LS or otherwise, although they did sell some GT500's) and they both don't have a very solid reputation for service (envision monkeys banging on the transmission with bats and hammers...). Just the fact that I have the LS air splitter on a car that's lower than stock AND I have racing pedals causes me concern for who's driving it. I already almost had her dinged up twice because of 'apprentice' techs that think they can drive the car (almost crushed air splitter on one of those cement parking barriers you see in a parking lot between spaces; almost put the car through a wall when they hit the brake and also the gas at the same time :mad: )

Because of all this I am tempted to swap out the Bank 1 camshaft posiiton sensors myself and see if it helps the issue. My only other recourse I have is to drive 1+ hrs to the dealer I bought her from but I suspect that will come with tit;s own set of headaches (trailer the car, have no appointment yet, etc, etc)

My Questions (Bill Pemberton I hope you're listening ! ;D )
1) I know my issue may be just a bad connection. I have yet to play with the camshaft position sensors. Is it advisable to pop out the connectors and apply dielectric grease?
2) I have yet to investigate how easy/hard it is to remove these sensors? Does anyone know what I'm up against ?
3) If the sensors are easy to replace mechanically, can they just be swapped out and reconnected - or is there a whole process to have the PCM adjust to the new sensors ?
4) When I do get the codes I see or feel no issues with the car at all, no loss of power or smoothness of engine. Is it possible these are codes that can be 'ignored' temporarily (Like the P0300 crankshaft position sensor code that just needs the relearn...) until I get back from my next event ?

Any info you guys may have on this topic would be greaty appreciated. I have an event in 1 week at Watkins Glen
and would like to put this issue all to bed ASAP.

-Pete
 
I have no idea what's causing it but good luck getting it looked at. Besides the splitter issue and potential damage from a lot jockey remember our cars are very similar to the GT 5.0's and most dealers will be familiar with them. You might try one of your local dealers and see what happens.
 

Justin

Save the dawn for your dishes!!!
pretty sure there is a thread floating around on here about something wrong with the contacts in the wiring to the cam sensors can go bad causing intermit cam sensor codes. and not to ever remove the tape around the wiring.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
She is currently 'under the knife'. Looks like an intermittent oil solenoid or associated wiring. Still looking.....
 
It is the wiring same as Gary and I had with the P0020 and P0022 codes, you just have the passenger side. Read the thread about the P0020 codes. It is most likely not the sensor so don't even mess with that. I would not ignore this like the P0300 codes.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
That's what Ford is saying also. They are replacing the entire wiring harness, hopefully tomorrow.
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
Update:

Spent all day yesterday in Mass. having the wiring harness replaced. Almost a 4 hr job for a competant technician. During his investigation he was able to actually have the PCM throw a code my just manipulating the harness with his hands while the car was running in the repair bay, so the theory about it being a bad connection somewhere in the harness seems very viable at this point. I will be taking the car onto the streets later this afternoon to try to shake her out and see if the codes return. If not it's off to Watkins Glen this weekend for the true test.

Here's what I found out from Ford on this topic (either from the dealer tech or from the Ford directly):

1) The P0300 codes that I was seeing on occasion (crankshaft position sensor issue) may have been caused by the issues with my wiring harness. As not to make more than one change to my LS at one time, the crankshaft relearn was not installed yet. I was OK with this approach since the P0300 codes are pretty much throw away at this point, I've seen them since I started running the car and they are not 'lethal' codes ('Lethal' meaning you should not run the car under that condition at all).

2) The codes P0010, P0012, P0020, P0022 are not necessarily 'lethal' codes, but they can be. It depends on what is actually causing the issue. The oil control valve (OCV) is the critical part in this system. It has a solenoid in it and it controls oil flow the the VVT/VCT system. This is also part of the reason why the weight and quality of the oil we use is so critical for this car. If this bad boy fails, all engine timing is off and you bought the farm - the car should not be run if this happens. According to the Boss engine development team, we would see about a 100 hp drop in power and it would be very evident that the issues exists. (Note: I never felt a drop in power when I got my P0010/P0012 codes).

3) The codes P0010, P0012, P0020, P0022 can be caused by the following:
a) Bad wiring harness are connectors therein
b) Bad or intermittant OCV
c) Bad or intermittant camshaft sensor(s)

Surprisingly, the Boss engine development team suspected an issue with the camshaft sensors themselves as a highest risk failure point based on what information I gave them and obviosuly no access to my car specifically. This is becuase they had a lot of problems with the first (production) design of the camshaft sensors, which were the last prototype models that appeared to be OK for release but then started acting up. Many early 2012 Bosses (of which mine is one of) had the prototype models (ofr which mine may not be one of) in their engines and Ford put a process in place to replace all of those sensors before the cars hit the street. Ford strongly believes they caught all of them before the cars were released from the factory, but there is always the possibility some slipped through the cracks. There is no way to visually tell if the sensor is a prototype design or a final design based on what I was told. Note: If Ford knew what my tech saw with regards to manually moving the harness around and causing codes I'm sure they would agree to start with replacing the harness.

Outside of making 2 trips up to MA (my choice, I could have gone to a local dealer if I wanted to) so far Ford has made this process fairly easy. They truly do stand by their product and made sure I had a master mechanic available to work on my car as soon as I pulled it off the trailer at the dealership (twice ;D ). Never once was I asked if and how the car was modded, although by it's sheer appearance you can tell it was in some ways (The numbers of the car and the track rubber kind of give it away I guess ;D ). Outside of my CAI and JLT oil catch cans the engine is 100% stock and they were fine with the small mods that they saw (never actually even brought it up as a discusison point).
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
roketman said:
Pete ,
Glad you are all sorted out!
The Glen should be a blast!
Have fun without me ,I dare you!

How the hell an I supposed to have fun at the Glen next week when there will be no lobster, crab or smoked salmon this time ? I think you should just come by just to visit... ;D
 
168
0
very interesting post Pete!

may I ask why MASS? is there a master dealership there that would be better than our local tri state dealerships?
( asking because Im growing dissatisfied with mine... )
 

PeteInCT

#LS-378 - So many Porsche's, so little time....
Moderator
2,848
14
Connecticut
There are two Ford dealerships very close to me, neither of which I bought my LS from or even had a '12 Boss allocated for sale in 2011/2012. They do sell GT's and Roush's though. In any event, one dealer also owns a VW dealership that I had some bad expereinces with. I don't trust their service so I don't wish to find out that their Ford service is similar (that's just an assumption, they may be great but I don't want to find out with my track car ;D ). The other dealership is very small and just doesn't give you the warm fuzzies when you're in there.

So the dealer I went to was the one I bought the car from in MA - the one that has all my ADM money and needed to come through with some top notch service ! ;D I dealt with the owner directly on the sale as well as spoke to him when I discussed hauling the LS up there for service. I also know the owner is a 'car guy' who has sold a number of Ford GT's and owns one, so he gets the whole performace thing. Long story short it was a lot of lugging of the LS on the trailer back and force twice but they did a great job of trying to address the issue, even getting the harness sent in overnight from Michigan. I still don't know if the issue is fully resolved yet and I may not know for sure until I get back to the track, there may have been more than one cause to the codes I was seeing. In any event, the harness surely was an issue and they took car of that piece of it.
 
Good info. It does look like this is only happening to early builds but I do not know that for sure. I wonder if there has been any changes to the wiring harness? One thing I can see here is that when these cars go out of warranty, tracking is going to get expensive (if things like the wiring are in fact the same and not upgraged or changed).

Since I threw the P0020 and 22 codes I have had the P0300 go off all the time, re-learn does not help.
 
PeteInCT said:
Update:

Spent all day yesterday in Mass. having the wiring harness replaced. Almost a 4 hr job for a competant technician. During his investigation he was able to actually have the PCM throw a code my just manipulating the harness with his hands while the car was running in the repair bay, so the theory about it being a bad connection somewhere in the harness seems very viable at this point. I will be taking the car onto the streets later this afternoon to try to shake her out and see if the codes return. If not it's off to Watkins Glen this weekend for the true test.

Here's what I found out from Ford on this topic (either from the dealer tech or from the Ford directly):

1) The P0300 codes that I was seeing on occasion (crankshaft position sensor issue) may have been caused by the issues with my wiring harness. As not to make more than one change to my LS at one time, the crankshaft relearn was not installed yet. I was OK with this approach since the P0300 codes are pretty much throw away at this point, I've seen them since I started running the car and they are not 'lethal' codes ('Lethal' meaning you should not run the car under that condition at all).

2) The codes P0010, P0012, P0020, P0022 are not necessarily 'lethal' codes, but they can be. It depends on what is actually causing the issue. The oil control valve (OCV) is the critical part in this system. It has a solenoid in it and it controls oil flow the the VVT/VCT system. This is also part of the reason why the weight and quality of the oil we use is so critical for this car. If this bad boy fails, all engine timing is off and you bought the farm - the car should not be run if this happens. According to the Boss engine development team, we would see about a 100 hp drop in power and it would be very evident that the issues exists. (Note: I never felt a drop in power when I got my P0010/P0012 codes).

3) The codes P0010, P0012, P0020, P0022 can be caused by the following:
a) Bad wiring harness are connectors therein
b) Bad or intermittant OCV
c) Bad or intermittant camshaft sensor(s)

Surprisingly, the Boss engine development team suspected an issue with the camshaft sensors themselves as a highest risk failure point based on what information I gave them and obviosuly no access to my car specifically. This is becuase they had a lot of problems with the first (production) design of the camshaft sensors, which were the last prototype models that appeared to be OK for release but then started acting up. Many early 2012 Bosses (of which mine is one of) had the prototype models (ofr which mine may not be one of) in their engines and Ford put a process in place to replace all of those sensors before the cars hit the street. Ford strongly believes they caught all of them before the cars were released from the factory, but there is always the possibility some slipped through the cracks. There is no way to visually tell if the sensor is a prototype design or a final design based on what I was told. Note: If Ford knew what my tech saw with regards to manually moving the harness around and causing codes I'm sure they would agree to start with replacing the harness.

Outside of making 2 trips up to MA (my choice, I could have gone to a local dealer if I wanted to) so far Ford has made this process fairly easy. They truly do stand by their product and made sure I had a master mechanic available to work on my car as soon as I pulled it off the trailer at the dealership (twice ;D ). Never once was I asked if and how the car was modded, although by it's sheer appearance you can tell it was in some ways (The numbers of the car and the track rubber kind of give it away I guess ;D ). Outside of my CAI and JLT oil catch cans the engine is 100% stock and they were fine with the small mods that they saw (never actually even brought it up as a discusison point).
Good info. Mine goes in tomorrow for P0010, P0012, P0050 and P0155.
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Latest posts

Buy TMO Apparel

Buy TMO Apparel
Top